Canadian government is 'muzzling its scientists'

Originally posted by Curious and Concerned
Maybe there are situations where scientists make false or misleading claims when they appear to have official backing,

Why? What's there to gain by scientists making false statements? That's like asking an explorer to go out and discover new territory yet comes back and doesn't tell us what he found.

Science is there to find and figure out truths. Not suppress them.
..
Now ask yourself, what's there to gain by the government wanting something suppressed? That's all they DO is suppress, hide, lie and cover-up matters. I don't know the last thing that they said truthful.

I am fascinated with all the un-truths the government dishes out yet people still trust and defend them despite....... the voice of reasoning saying otherwise.

I have every reason to think they have and/or are attempting to take over everything including but not limited to the weather (hence: Aerosol spraying)

They have manipulated history, they manipulate the present and now they want to manipulate the future via science.

There is no reason for the government to be micro-managing science UNLESS....they're hiding something or wish to manipulate the findings to fit their agenda!

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Human_Alien

 

I just wonder when the glaciers start melting how they're going to sweep the flood under the rug?

Are you linking a reduction in polar ozone levels to global warming?
Please explain.

edit on 2/29/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)

The article LINKED a photo of the glacier with the Sun beating down on it (unless that's a picture of Europa that accidentally got mixed in )
I was simply indulging and expounding on the subliminal message presented.

Originally posted by Human_Alien

Originally posted by Curious and Concerned
Maybe there are situations where scientists make false or misleading claims when they appear to have official backing,

Why? What's there to gain by scientists making false statements? That's like asking an explorer to go out and discover new territory yet comes back and doesn't tell us what he found.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am fascinated with all the un-truths the government dishes out yet people still trust and defend them despite....... the voice of reasoning saying otherwise.

If you had read the rest of the sentence you quoted, you would have seen that I'm not defending the government at all. I said "but I don't think that makes it necessary to make government permissions for interviews compulsory." I said that I don't like scientists being muzzled; I don't like it any more than you do. But let's be honest, we all know that sensitive matters are withheld from the public domain. This has always been the case and always will be unless drastic changes are made to our society. We didn't need this article to know that, although it is disconcerting to see it occurring at a base level.

Originally posted by Human_Alien
I have every reason to think they have and/or are attempting to take over everything including but not limited to the weather (hence: Aerosol spraying)

I don't know your reasons for believing this, but I don't think this article gives any more credence to what some believe is a mass aerial spraying operation. It is possible, but highly improbable in my opinion for a number of reasons. Even though some scientists may be muzzled, it's no excuse for being ignorant on the science of contrail formation, as so many people are on here (not saying you are).

It's astounding that there are still people that try to propagate the myth that there is no such thing as a persisting contrail, therefore there is a secret government operation whenever you see one. Once you have a general understanding of thermal dynamics (including contrail formation), you can understand why you see them (but often don't), and that we will continue to see more with increasing air traffic and increasing use of high-bypass turbofan engines such as those on the A380, A330, A340, 777 and soon on the 787 while phasing out older inefficient aircraft. I could list many other reasons why a mass spraying operation is improbable, but I'll refrain since that is not the main topic of this thread.

Originally posted by Human_Alien
They have manipulated history, they manipulate the present and now they want to manipulate the future via science.

Completely agree with that. But I believe we can still use some logic and understanding to better understand what is happening without blindly believing every conspiratorial theory. We can understand that contrails are not always spraying operations. We can understand that warnings of solar storms are not the same as an ozone depletion, and that an article's picture of the sun and ice does not mean that flooding is imminent.

Such things may be occuring, but without sufficient reasoning, we should accept that these are merely theories, and should not be presented as undeniable fact. 'member that!

I can't respect my country anymore like I used to. Such a waste.

reply to post by Human_Alien


Excellent work - sorry I missed this one. ...Do you have any data on the association(s) between the magnetic field and weather? (Like the tornadoes?)


S&F&

reply to post by Human_Alien


I'm puzzled by the inclusion of the video of Michio Kaku in this OP.

Mr. Kaku is on CNN to talk about the Solar 11-year cycle of activity and radiation bursts....and a magnetic field weakness in some spots that the Earth is experiencing. ...these "gaps" seem to vary, both in duration and location.
(NASA article from 2003). This has nothing to do with "climate change" in the sense of Human activity.... Human activity certainly cannot influence, nor alter, the Earth's magnetic field.

The correlation of our magnetic field to its effect (if any) on climate and weather is not well known, either. There are a few fringe controversial claims made that there is a connection, but there is still much to research on that.

But, it is moot since we have no control over Earth's magnetism, anyway.



The topic (and title) of the thread seems to be about the "muzzling" of climate scientists by the current Prime Minister of Canada.

He (Stephen Harper) is a right-wing ideologue cut from the same cloth as many of his similar-thinking right-wing counterparts here in the USA. It is a very, very common theme among these types that so-called "Global Warming" is a myth and a hoax. There are quite a few right-leaning ATS members here who argue the same thing. Back-and-forth with other ATS members with opposing views.

The view of these right-wing types is diametrically opposite those who they view as "tree huggers".....the people who argue that Human activity is responsible for AGW on a global scale.

Since the predominate government in Canada is "conservative" (ironic, that the word is similar to "conservation"...), those leaders want to enforce their opinions on the topic, and are wielding political muscle to do so. Similar to how many of those in the USA's Republican Party do so as well. This is driven, ultimately, by big corporate money (oil) that do not want any limitations imposed upon their markets.

Stephen Harper, from some research, is apparently not only a "conservative", but also a Christian fundamentalist. In this way he reminds me of George W. Bush....and as a "fundie" possibly rejects AGW due to that religious bias, and lack of rational thinking ability. Some of the people with this mindset feel that the Earth is there for the benefit of mankind, to use as deemed fit, at will.


So, really.....No, scientists should always be free to speak out. And, if they are being "blackmailed" into not reporting as they prefer, due to the sorts of shenanigans that a corrupt political faction can exert (to make their lives difficult, such as by threatening to ruin their careers), then this should be uncovered and reported.


The problem regarding AGW is, though....the data is still debatable. The "changes" may not be anything more than normal cyclical Earth climate activity.....in other words, nothing WE did, or can do, will alter the progress of what Earth is going to do. This is a distinct possibility.

Also, there seems to be this mistaken impression that something, such as sea-level increases, will happen virtually over-night. This is more likely a decades-long "change" (if it is indeed, a change at all).

One more thing that should be taken into account is that one reason there is more attention being paid to the global climate is due to the fact that there is just so much more technology available, and ever more coming out every year. Technology that never existed before, and thus we are collecting more precise and accurate data like never before.

Seems that the 'debate' over AGW will rage on, and during this more and more science should be conducted, and data collected. Surely any significantly obvious "change" is decades away, and likely will be gradual in its onset (if it occurs at all).

Humans are a very adaptable species.

Originally posted by pirhanna
...

Addendum: I convinced one starchly anti-climate change person two weeks ago that it was indeed real and that it is indeed linked to industrialization in about 15 minutes of looking at the real raw data available on the internet. It's not hard. It doesn't take a climatologist to figure it out - just look at about 3 graphs of data points.

edit on 28-2-2012 by pirhanna because: (no reason given)

Climate Change has nothing to do with industrialization... nothing at all, and that person you claim you convinced wasn't knowledgeable at all if he was convinced that anthropogenic CO2 is the cause of the ongoing Climate Change...

First of all, as I have proven several times, the fact that the warming had been more pronounced in remote areas FAR AWAY from anthropogenic CO2 sources should give EVERYONE a clear understanding that CO2 is not the cause of the ongoing Climate Change.

Even NASA had to admit this, but they tried to hide it since the crazy Hansen is the director of NASA...

At the end of the following link from NASA you can read the following...

Current warmth seems to be occurring nearly everywhere at the same time and is largest at high latitudes in the Northern Hemisphere. Over the last 50 years, the largest annual and seasonal warmings have occurred in Alaska, Siberia and the Antarctic Peninsula. Most ocean areas have warmed. Because these areas are remote and far away from major cities, it is clear to climatologists that the warming is not due to the influence of pollution from urban areas.

www.nasa.gov...

Does your mind comprehends what they said in the above excerpt?...

This alone should be a clear sign that CO2 IS NOT the cause of the ongoing Climate Change...

Second of all, the oceans, and lands have been warming before, and faster than the atmosphere.

Oceanic Influences on Recent Continental Warming
GILBERT P. COMPO
PRASHANT D. SARDESHMUKH
Climate Diagnostics Center,
Cooperative Institute for Research in Environmental Sciences,
University of Colorado, and
Physical Sciences Division, Earth System Research Laboratory,
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
325 Broadway R/PSD1
Boulder CO 80305-3328
[email protected]
(303) 497-6115
(303) 497-6449

Citation:
Compo, G.P., and P.D. Sardeshmukh, 2008: Oceanic influences on recent continental warming. Climate
Dynamics, doi: 10.1007/s00382-008-0448-9.
This article is published by Springer-Verlag. This author-created version is distributed courtesy of Springer-Verlag.
The original publication is available from www.springerlink.com at
www.springerlink.com...

Abstract
Evidence is presented that the recent worldwide land warming has occurred largely in response to a worldwide warming of the oceans rather than as a direct response to increasing greenhouse gases (GHGs) over land.

Atmospheric model simulations of the last half-century with prescribed observed ocean temperature changes, but without prescribed GHG changes, account for most of the land warming. The oceanic influence has occurred through hydrodynamic-radiative teleconnections, primarily by moistening and warming the air over land and increasing the downward longwave radiation at the surface. The oceans may themselves have warmed from a combination of natural and anthropogenic influences.

www.cdc.noaa.gov...

In the above research work the "evidence" says and I quote:

recent worldwide land warming has occurred largely in response to a worldwide warming of the oceans rather than as a direct response to increasing greenhouse gases (GHGs) over land

Third, the Earth has not been the only planet undergoing dramatic Climate Change. All planets, and even moons with an atmosphere in the Solar System have been undergoing Climate Change moslty in the form of WARMING.

This third fact is one that deserves a lot of attention because imo it is the reason why we have been experiencing the ongoing Climate Change, and this is what the governments of the world that know about this are so quiet about it, because they know there is NOTHING they can do, or anyone else can do to stop it. What they have been doing is queezing the ignorant masses of money by claiming "we can stop it" when in fact all they are doing is making sure they survive the changes that are coming. They are building bunkers, and underground cities that only the elites and a few others they decide to take with them will be able to use to try to survive the coming changes which will get worse and worse.

To me this is scary stuff. Forget about a "zombie apocalypse", we are experiencing an environmental degradation beyond our scope of control, and no one really cares because they would rather sit inside their air conditioned cars with one person driving on the highway to no where real fast...
And if you do care then you get labelled a "tree hugging hippy terrorist".
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.