So Everyone Will Have Eternal Life?

This is another one for christian theology.

Jesus spoke about following him, and by god's grace you will be given eternal life.
Now on the other hand, it is said certain individuals will go to hell to suffer eternally.

So either way someone has eternal life, so why did jesus use eternal life as a reward if everyone will have it?

Thanks for point out Contradiction # 65 on the List of Christian Hilarities.

The Bible was never meant to make sense. People just realized, "If I don't think about it, it makes perfect sense!" And they lived happily ever after serving an invisible bearded man in the sky.

Cheers.

This has always crossed my mind when it comes to eternal life....won't overpopulation become a problem in heaven?

Can u reproduce in the afterlife?

Will the child u give birth to in heaven have eternal life too?



Oh almost forgot this one...

Is it considered cheating if ur married and u go to heaven ur wife goes to hell so u find someone new in heaven....

Can people in heaven call to hell or Skype?

life has been eternal since the begining. But the question is what is life? Is it this 3D reality we perceive or is it our conscious souls using embodiment in this reality who represent true eternal life.

"Eternal life" is not meant to be read as eternal existence. Think of the phrase "He's full of life." You get the sense of youth, vigor, joy, activity.

And no, we don't have bodies capable of making babies if we're in heaven.

reply to post by Ralphy
Not as I read what the bible actually says, as compared to what preachers teach, no.

As I read it, only the "saved" receive the gift of eternal life ("...for the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is life eternal in Christ Jesus our lord" and "For God so loved the world that he gave his only-begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him shall not *perish*, but have everlasting life" and "Fear not those who can only kill the body, but fear only God who can destroy both body and soul in hell").

Granted, there are some other verses that speak of everlasting punishment, but I would consider the second death to be an unending punishment, myself. As I read things, only the angels were created immortal, and man was born to die (hence needing access to the tree of life in Genesis and Revelation both, for those in the grace of god).

While the bible also says the flames of hell (Gehenna, in this instance) are eternal, that only makes sense in light of the punishment of immortal beings such as the devil and his angels.

Now - to spin to a different angle - jewish thought takes a different view in that EVERYONE will eventually make it into the world to come (Olam Ha'ba), aside from some 5 or so of the worst of the worst - otherwise, even those who are consigned to Gehenna ("hell") spend at most a year there according to the rabbis, if I recall correctly...but this doesn't appear in the biblican jewish scriptures, either, so I'm not sure how the rabbis reached the thought.

In short - there's not much of eternal torment OR life in the bible itself, short of those in the grace of god after this life ends.

reply to post by Ralphy


Yes everyone has eternal life... Though once you pass into the afterlife... and on to your next incarnation your memories of this life in 99% of the cases are "deleted"... or perhaps just removed until you return home.

THIS is my explanation...

reply to post by ElOmen

This has always crossed my mind when it comes to eternal life....won't overpopulation become a problem in heaven?

Can u reproduce in the afterlife?

Will the child u give birth to in heaven have eternal life too?

I don't think so - as Charles said already, there's no indication that we'll be reproducing in heaven in the first place, and a new heaven and a new earth will be provided - and even just the new Jerusalem itself as described in Revelation is *massive* - walls of about 1500 CUBIC miles (1500 miles high, wide, and deep). If you can crunch the numbers on how many people could live in such, I'd appreciate it.

Is it considered cheating if ur married and u go to heaven ur wife goes to hell so u find someone new in heaven....

Jesus taught that there won't be husbands and wives in heaven - the illustration (not literal implication) is that we as the church will all be wedded to god as our husband - no more earthly relationship bonds involved.

Can people in heaven call to hell or Skype?

Well, there wouldn't really be anyone to call aside from the devil and his angels as per my understanding that the 'unsaved' don't have eternal life, but I'll say likely no. I guess only time will tell one way or the other, though.

reply to post by Praetorius


Appreciate the quick info....

Be back later to ask some serious questions after work

Originally posted by Ralphy
This is another one for christian theology.

Jesus spoke about following him, and by god's grace you will be given eternal life.
Now on the other hand, it is said certain individuals will go to hell to suffer eternally.

So either way someone has eternal life, so why did jesus use eternal life as a reward if everyone will have it?

Without getting too religious, you can think of the soul/spirit as eternal and separate from our physical bodies. If you read Jesus's gift as eternal life, then you can say hell would be akin to eternal death. It's more about the state of our soul/spirit in the afterlife as opposed to a literal extension of life.

reply to post by ElOmen
Sure thing.

For the sake of the thread, I would also like to go ahead and say that I break from usual christian orthodoxy in that I don't think the bar for eternal life is set quite as high as the church has usually taught (requiring specific awareness and admittance of Christ, being christian, etc.).

If we look at the words of Christ himself, he teaches that those who do the will of his Father will be approved - he taught about the peacemakers, those broken in spirit, the just, humble, etc...while we're taught otherwise that liars, fornicators, and various other classes will not taste eternal life. I think my god is big and accepting of most comers who actually seek him and do his will - whether they consciously know him or not - and only refuses those in open rebellion, who live in cruelty and perversities, and the like.

MU had a great segment the other day that I'm certainly willing to consider, talking about the old idea that all faiths are merely ways attempting to reach the same goal. I'm still dabbling with these ideas, but I think that - whatever our belief system might be - if we're honestly trying to do our best to live in a godly way (whether that be the direct intent or not), then everyone's got a good shot...and I'll stick by my prior statement that that even includes some avowed atheists and agnostics.

Heresy, I know, and I'd advise no other believers to buy into that without their own searching and investigation...it's just the thought I'm developing.

Originally posted by ElOmen
This has always crossed my mind when it comes to eternal life....won't overpopulation become a problem in heaven?

Can u reproduce in the afterlife?

Will the child u give birth to in heaven have eternal life too?

Oh almost forgot this one...

Is it considered cheating if ur married and u go to heaven ur wife goes to hell so u find someone new in heaven....

Can people in heaven call to hell or Skype?

edit on 28-2-2012 by ElOmen because: (no reason given)

This is the reason I believe the so-called "afterlife" (not saying there isn't a world beyond this one, just saying that 'afterlife' is inaccurate) is not what people think it is.

Something beyond human conception and understanding, is beyond human definition. You can try, but you'll never be totally correct.

reply to post by Praetorius

Well, there wouldn't really be anyone to call aside from the devil and his angels as per my understanding that the 'unsaved' don't have eternal life, but I'll say likely no. I guess only time will tell one way or the other, though.

Burning in hell for all of eternity sounds a lot like eternal life...you just spend one eating grapes and the other being a marshmallow.

note: I do not support the nonsense of the Christian heaven and hell.

People keep mentioning Jesus' gift of eternal life. Another thought to consider here is our definition of life...

Suppose life is determined by something we are unable to measure at this time, something our science has not yet achieved? Suppose there is a whole other world existing right next to ours, only it consists of energy and all of that stuff?

Suppose the true nature of life exists in this plane, and this is the gift that we have been promised? Suppose that the absence of this "gift" is the meaning of hell?

I know there are a lot of 'suppose's in this post, but this is strictly theory. However, I think it is promising...much more than the simplified, idiotic version that gets crammed down our throats at church.

reply to post by Starchild23


Jesus did not give that gift... it came directly from God.

Jesus came to give the realization of that gift.

Feel free to correct me... But you'll need some scripture from him to do so... And i don't believe such passages exist...

10Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

11The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water?

12Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle?

13Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:

14But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

reply to post by Starchild23
I don't think you read the bulk of what I said previously in that case, my friend. I don't believe the 'unsaved' get eternal life in the first place.

To phrase it bluntly and more than a little crudely, I perceive Gehenna (the lake of fire/hell) as being the almighty garbage disposal, the "second death" as the bible discusses where those who haven't accepted the gift of life for whatever various reason are burned out of existence, as they are not created immortal - I break with orthodoxy here, as I don't find just cause for it in the bible itself.

Take care.

reply to post by Ralphy

Jesus spoke about following him, and by god's grace you will be given eternal life.

You answered your own question right there.

Originally posted by Starchild23
Thanks for point out Contradiction # 65 on the List of Christian Hilarities.

The Bible was never meant to make sense. People just realized, "If I don't think about it, it makes perfect sense!" And they lived happily ever after serving an invisible bearded man in the sky.

Cheers.

The bible doesn't make sense to you because you do not believe any of it. Naturally you're not going to take anything away from reading it except pessimism and negativity, just like what you have now. It's a book meant to give people hope, and to alay their fears of death.

That book wasn't meant for you, and everytime you open your mouth and scoff at it, you prove me right.

2 Peter 3: 3-7

3 Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), 2 that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us,[a] the apostles of the Lord and Savior,3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts , 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” 5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, 6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.


I can describe the entire bible, old testament to new testament with just one word.

HOPE

reply to post by Ralphy


I think you're confusing eternal life and eternal existence.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Ralphy

 

I think you're confusing eternal life and eternal existence.

What is the difference between eternal life and eternal existence?
Life being happy?
Existence being dreadful?
Just trying to see where you are coming from.