John Kerry Is The Light Of Truth, The Congressional Hearing

Q: Why is it a bad idea to cry during a firefight?

A: It streaks your mascara and it makes it hard to aim.

[edit on 04/9/21 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by FlyersFan
It wasn't common
place or wide spread or cheered at by
the government - like our enemies do.

It may not have been cheered about, as you put it, but Bush & Co., knew about it before it was shown on the news, they gave the go ahead to do whatever they had to,....... to get information.

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction

How do I know???

BECAUSE I AM ONE OF THOSE TROOPS YOU POMPOUS CHILD, AND I HAVE ALREADY SPENT TWO 120 DAY TOURS IN THE AOR!!!

[edit on 20-9-2004 by Affirmative Reaction]

Yea Right, WHERE'S THE PROOF !!!!!!!!!!!! Your only ONE person,...... not all the TROOPS, and your going to try and speak for the rest of them and we're suppose to beleive everything you say, , give me a break,........... . I have cousins that are over in Iraq as we speak and I know for a fact that they are DEMOCRATS and have always voted straight-ticket at election time,

Originally posted by marg6043
dgtempe,

I applaud you for that post,

I wonder what it takes for a man to have the guts to accept that their service was appreciated and respected but now this is the present and we have to keep with the program that is what we are dealing with now, Vietnam is over and we have to thanks Kerry and others for that, at least they still have their lives.


[edit on 20-9-2004 by marg6043]

very well put, marg6043 . dgtempte, I couldn't have said it better, myself .

Rant, thank you !!!!!!

taibunsuu, very very nice work , well I guess that shoots the Daddy bought me an Honorable Discharge , straight to the TOP !

George W Bush, should be ashamed of hisself, alright George,...... where you going to hide now from the truth,................ George , GEORGE can you hear me .


Thank You taibunsuu for showing that stuff, great job

Grady, I am not attacking you or any Vietnam Veteran , you served with honor and I honor you and the others, but I honor John Kerry too, maybe even alittle more, because He did what he thought was right to get you overs out of Nam and home, alive.

Originally posted by nanna_of_6
because He [Kerry] did what he thought was right to get you overs out of Nam and home, alive.

This was not Kerry's motive. Read my post on the cost of communism in Vietnam and the world. Kerry supported the enemy who is responsible for these murders. He is a liar and a traitor. Nothing will ever change that. I have given links to support the facts.

You can't whitewash Kerry. You're can't fool me; I know whereof I speak.

[edit on 04/9/21 by GradyPhilpott]

*shakes head* some people never cease to amaze me...

According to Kerry himself, he would have gone to war with Iraq also....

That's coming from him, noone put a gun to his head for him to say this.

quote: In a Sept. 6, 2002, commentary in The New York Times, Kerry wrote: "If Saddam Hussein is unwilling to bend to the international community's already existing order, then he will have invited enforcement, even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act."

Excerpted from, and where more quotes by Kerry about Iraq can be found at.
www.kansas.com...

Muaddib,

My husband retaired in 98 even him wanted to go back and go into afghanistan, and Iraq after that, because the sense of patriotism after 9/11,

Ask him now if he will go over there, his mind is alot different now.

Originally posted by dgtempe

Oh, MG! waaa waaa waaa ..have mommy wipe your face...
Bush was too drunk and high to take the fizical....(hick)

I dont care to be in the planet with the likes of you. I, along with half this country KNOW the real truth behind this president, and you are a warmongerer Bush lover, wrapped in the American flag, waving your little flag all the time--Just dont disagree with you, because you'll eat them for dinner.
You're entitled to your opinion, and i'm entitled to mine. I'm married to a Marine. Top secret clearance, medals, has been offered top jobs within government, and im going to tell you, my husband doesnt agree with the likes of you or Grady..
My husband has told me stories of atrocities in Viet Nam- he lived it. He saw it and was involved. It does not mean he's less of a veteran because he speaks the truth.
How you armchair warriors (sorry, you said you wore some kind of uniform...) can sit there and pass judgement on everyone and everything, and pounce on everyone who dares say anything you dont agree with, I'll never know.
You and Grady need to realize you both are not the only people in uniform.. and you're not the only patriots...and if it werent for smilies and bogus right winged posts, there wouldnt be any substance to your posts at all...

Like I said, no proof, just your bull. Illuminati...that says a lot about where your brain is at...totally whacko. You show no proof, just make crap up because you are totally brainwashed by the party of hate, and the nut bags who think it's a "world conspiracy". Half the country believes as you do? I wouldn't even go as far as half of the people who read this BOARD!!!! "My husband this, my husband that"...blah blah blah...all talk and no proof. Period. You don't even TALK a good game. I'm living it right NOW in the military, sweetie, and HAVE been for the last 20+ years! You haven't been to Iraq...your hubby hasn't been to Iraq...I have...twice. I live it every day now as my unit continues to rotate people in and out of the theater.

I don't pass judgment on you, I give my opinion on your words, just as you do mine. Unfortunately, in your screwed up view, yours is the only "correct" view. We're all supposed to beleive you "because you say so", and "because half the country says so". Where do you come up with this crappola? How droll. My view is always wrong if it differs from you. But hey, it's all an "Illuminati conspiracy", right? Whack.

Substance to posts? HA!!! You need to look at your posts, honey. If it weren't for your little lady friends, you wouldn't have anybody backing up a single whacked out thing you post. You aren't the queen of the hill here, but hey, keep posting the lies and crap with no proof at all...it shows how much credibility you have...i.e., zilch, zero, nada....and keep it up with the "Illuminati" stuff too...that REALLY gives rise to a bunch of laughs!!!!




[edit on 21-9-2004 by Affirmative Reaction]

Originally posted by taibunsuu

Bush, pilot who didn't have to go to ROTC or OCS to become an officer, becomes an officer on his first day out of six-week airman training.

To get in the guard, passes to the top of a line of a 100,000 person waiting list for National Guard entry, scores 25% on his Officer and Pilot qualification tests, then goes through a million-dollar training course for pilots, ends up grounded. Wow, grounded due to lack of a flight physical, the dream of every interceptor pilot.

First, none of these accusations are true. None.

Bush joined in May 1968. He went through six weeks of basic training � a full-time job � at Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, Tex. Then he underwent 53 weeks of flight training � again, full time � at Moody Air Force Base in Valdosta, Ga. Then he underwent 21 weeks of fighter interceptor training � full time � at Ellington Air Force Base in Houston. Counting other, shorter, postings in between, by the end of his training period Bush had served two years on active duty.

Certified to fly the F-102 fighter plane, Bush then began a period of frequent � usually weekly � flying. The F-102 was designed to shoot down other fighter planes, and the missions Bush flew were training flights, mostly over the Gulf of Mexico and often at night, in which pilots took turns being the predator and the prey.� If you're going to practice how to shoot down another airplane, then you have to have another airplane up there to work on," recalls retired Col. William Campenni, who flew with Bush in 1970 and 1971. "He'd be the target for the first half of the mission, and then we'd switch."

During that period Bush's superiors gave him consistently high ratings as a pilot. "Lt. Bush is an exceptional fighter interceptor pilot and officer," wrote one in a 1972 evaluation. Another evaluation, in 1971, called Bush "an exceptionally fine young officer and pilot" who "continually flies intercept missions with the unit to increase his proficiency even further." And a third rating, in 1970, said Bush "clearly stands out as a top notch fighter interceptor pilot" and was also "a natural leader whom his contemporaries look to for leadership."

Your intentionally misleading "scored 25%" is actually from the fact that he scored higher than the 75th percentile, i.e., in the top 25%. It has been misconstrued in an attempt to show he was incompetent. Sorry...no dice.

Your first image simply vacated his flying status because he did not accomplish a flight physical. He didn't, because he was in Alabama serving in a non-flying unit. It WAS allowed by his superiors. Your third and fourth documents seem to disagree, although the first is totally illegible, but the second tells him to report to LtC William Turnipseed at the Alabama unit. Hmmm. Curios. Where did you get these docs, CBS???? Already been debunked, those have.....

And Turnipseed NEVER SAID he didn't remember him ever showing up. He was misquoted by the globe. Here is what he said when contacted later...

With an obligation to the Guard, Bush asked to perform equivalent service in Alabama. That was not an unusual request, given that members of the Guard, like everyone else, often moved around the country. "It was a common thing," recalls Brigadier General Turnipseed. "If we had had a guy in Houston, he could have made equivalent training with Bush's unit. It was so common that the guy who wrote the letter telling Bush to come didn't even tell me about it."

But hey, you wouldn't want to print his ACTUAL words, now would you...
Moving on...

There is nothing at all unusual about the fifth page. It's what we call an A'forms product, the "A" meaning Aeronautical. It is never signed, and not kept anywhere except in the A-forms office for records keeping. When the member separates, it is given to him for his personal records, or to do what he pleases with it. Those that plan to fly for airlines after service often keep them. No gratuitous days granted to him. I have no idea where you came up with that clap trap.

The last doc...his honorable discharge. Good on him.

As for the rest of your points...not true..he was in a pilots program from the second he joined. Already had his Bachelors degree. Ever hear of a 21 day wonder?

As for "nobody" remembering him in Ala...bull...did you personally talk to "everybody"? Has "anybody"? No.

Another quote...

On the other hand, showing up for drills was still meeting one's responsibility to the Guard. And, as 1973 went along, the evidence suggests that Bush stepped up his work to make up for the time he had missed earlier. In April of that year, he received credit for two days; in May, he received credit for 14 days; in June, five days; and in July, 19 days. That was the last service Bush performed in the Guard. Later that year, he asked for and received permission to leave the Guard early so he could attend Harvard Business School. He was given an honorable discharge after serving five years, four months, and five days of his original six-year commitment.

And another...

The president's critics have charged that he did not show up for service � was "AWOL" � in Alabama. Bush says he did serve, and his case is supported by records showing that he was paid and given retirement credit for days of service while he was known to be in Alabama. The records also show that Bush received a dental examination on January 6, 1973, at Dannelly Air National Guard base, home of the 187th (January 6 was one of the days that pay records show Bush receiving credit for service). And while a number of Guard members at the base say they do not remember seeing Bush among the roughly 900 men who served there during that time, another member, a retired lieutenant named John Calhoun, says he remembers seeing Bush at the base several times.

So, 900 folks. Only " a number" say they "do not remember" seeing GWB. That doesn't mean he wasn't there. There are a couple thousand folks stationed here on my base...I don't know all of them....


Perhaps you should try again. But try the truth this time, and don't try to pull the wool over the eyes of an Air Force flyer on Air Force matters. You're starting at a disadvantage....

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction

Originally posted by dgtempe

Oh, MG! waaa waaa waaa ..have mommy wipe your face...
Bush was too drunk and high to take the fizical....(hick)

I dont care to be in the planet with the likes of you. I, along with half this country KNOW the real truth behind this president, and you are a warmongerer Bush lover, wrapped in the American flag, waving your little flag all the time--Just dont disagree with you, because you'll eat them for dinner.
You're entitled to your opinion, and i'm entitled to mine. I'm married to a Marine. Top secret clearance, medals, has been offered top jobs within government, and im going to tell you, my husband doesnt agree with the likes of you or Grady..
My husband has told me stories of atrocities in Viet Nam- he lived it. He saw it and was involved. It does not mean he's less of a veteran because he speaks the truth.
How you armchair warriors (sorry, you said you wore some kind of uniform...) can sit there and pass judgement on everyone and everything, and pounce on everyone who dares say anything you dont agree with, I'll never know.
You and Grady need to realize you both are not the only people in uniform.. and you're not the only patriots...and if it werent for smilies and bogus right winged posts, there wouldnt be any substance to your posts at all...

Like I said, no proof, just your bull. Illuminati...that says a lot about where your brain is at...totally whacko. You show no proof, just make crap up because you are totally brainwashed by the party of hate, and the nut bags who think it's a "world conspiracy". Half the country believes as you do? I wouldn't even go as far as half of the people who read this BOARD!!!! "My husband this, my husband that"...blah blah blah...all talk and no proof. Period. You don't even TALK a good game. I'm living it right NOW in the military, sweetie, and HAVE been for the last 20+ years! You haven't been to Iraq...your hubby hasn't been to Iraq...I have...twice. I live it every day now as my unit continues to rotate people in and out of the theater.

I don't pass judgment on you, I give my opinion on your words, just as you do mine. Unfortunately, in your screwed up view, yours is the only "correct" view. We're all supposed to beleive you "because you say so", and "because half the country says so". Where do you come up with this crappola? How droll. My view is always wrong if it differs from you. But hey, it's all an "Illuminati conspiracy", right? Whack.

Substance to posts? HA!!! You need to look at your posts, honey. If it weren't for your little lady friends, you wouldn't have anybody backing up a single whacked out thing you post. You aren't the queen of the hill here, but hey, keep posting the lies and crap with no proof at all...it shows how much credibility you have...i.e., zilch, zero, nada....and keep it up with the "Illuminati" stuff too...that REALLY gives rise to a bunch of laughs!!!!




[edit on 21-9-2004 by Affirmative Reaction]

You are a piece of work. So much for the personal attacks in the mud pitt.
Since English is my second language, I think i do rather well at expressing my opinions. Though I may not post like some, My spelling is quite good and i have nothing to be ashamed of.
** LOOK WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SOMEONE DISAGREES WITH YOU**

And just in case you're wondering, I am an American citizen.
You've run out of stuff, Bub. Any comments on Bush's war records?
I noticed you didnt jump on that issue.
Just jump on the "girls", beat them up with your wet posts, rant and rave and complain about me mentioning my husband
Accuse me of not being capable to think

Armchair warrior.

dgtempe,

Yeah, girl that is Mr. Afiramtive Reaction world, he got on me too, and I happend to be female and aslo inglish is my second language and he made fun of it too.

I guess when you prove them wrong that is all they got left insults to anybody that does not have a twisted brain like him.

Right Marg,
Its all they have left to fight with.
I think affirmative is jealous 'cause I have a husband! Thats it! He's freaked out because I'm taken....what do you think?
Notice how he reacted to what I post about my husband??
He's furious!

Originally posted by dgtempe
You are a piece of work. So much for the personal attacks in the mud pitt.
Since English is my second language, I think i do rather well at expressing my opinions. Though I may not post like some, My spelling is quite good and i have nothing to be ashamed of.

Wow, you sure do know how to make things up, don't you! Amazing how you manufacture things! When, pray tell, did I ever say anything about your spelling or language skills? Never have. And honey, it's not a personal attack...just expressing right back at you my feelings...but hey, I forgot...I'm not ALLOWED to do that...only you and your girlfriends are, right? Riiiight......

And just in case you're wondering, I am an American citizen.

Did I ever question this? No. So why do you bring it up? Feeling guilty about something?

You've run out of stuff, Bub. Any comments on Bush's war records?

I haven't even come CLOSE to running out of stuff. You're just a bit angry that I don't buckle under as you seem to feel all men should to you when you get miffed. Sorry. Go beat on your hubby if you want a man to buckle under to you. Not going to happen here.

Why would I claim President Bush has a war record? Never claimed it, never said it. Why must you continue to make things up? Is it pathological? Tell you what...how about we talk about how Kerry lied to congress, admitted to committing war crimes, and coerced other vets into doing the same in a hotel room in Michigan? Hmmm??? Isn't that what the thread is supposed to be about before you went all kerflooey and had your tizzy fit?

Just jump on the "girls", beat them up with your wet posts, rant and rave and complain about me mentioning my husband

Wet posts? Hmmm...trying to figure out if I should be insulted by this one or not...considering the source I should guess so, but I have thicker skin that that. Didn't rant and rave about anything, especially your hubby. I just find it very amusing that you have to use him to try to give yourself some credibility, as if being married to an ex-Marine lends credence to any of the trash you post. Try PROVING something instead of just saying, "because I say so", and, "everybody in America knows", or "you have to believe me because my hubby was a Marine". Some actual proof of ANYTHING you ever say MIGHT just lend you some credibility...but I doubt it....

Accuse me of not being capable to think

There it is again, that pathological impulse to lie. I never said that. Never. If you wish to INFER that from something I have said, that is YOUR problem, but don't put words in my mouth....

Armchair warrior.

Awwww....should I cry now? You're calling me names...should I go get my wife and cry about it? Yeah, that's right, I'm taken as well, so sorry, you have no chance. Of course, you wouldn't have a chance anyway, so sorry, you'll just have to live with it!!!


Please though, if you must continue making things up, go post in the fiction forum...although you post fiction here, it really isn't warranted....

Affirmitive Reaction, I have a suggestion for you,...... and your NOT going to like it !!!!!!!!!!!!

Why don't you go find George W Bush or Tricky Dick Cheney and "sit" on their thumbs for a bit, maybe you'll get what you need from them cause your not doing so well here,

Originally posted by dgtempe
Right Marg,
Its all they have left to fight with.
I think affirmative is jealous 'cause I have a husband! Thats it! He's freaked out because I'm taken....what do you think?
Notice how he reacted to what I post about my husband??
He's furious!

O pull-EESE!!!! Yer KILLIN' ME!!!!!!

Ok affirmative:

How do you explain someone being granted a commission as soon as they finish Airman basic, and being discharged honorably 8 months before their term of service is up?

How do you explain the fact that no one ever recalls ever seeing him after he left Texas for 'Bama, or seeing him back in Texas after 'Bama? Odd that anyone who actually served at a base for months or years can name numerous people who will remember him. No commanders or colleagues remember him at all flying in his F-102?

How does a pilot miss a mandatory flight physical? If you're in the Air Force you must know this is not a joke. It takes a million-dollar pilot out of comission.

Don't come at me with non-proof after I showed you the guy was not there. Here's more information on our AWOL / DESERTER president who slipped in and out of the Guard because his dad was a Houston-area congressman.

Check out this timeline and summary:

When Guardsmen miss monthly drills, or "unit training assemblies" (UTAs), they are allowed to make them up through substitute service and earn crucial points toward their service record. Drills are worth one point on a weekday and two points on each weekend day. For Bush's substitute service on Nov. 13-14, 1972, he was awarded four points, two for each day.

But Nov. 13 and 14 were both weekdays. He should have been awarded two points.


But he should have earned four points, one each for Thursday and Friday, two for Saturday.

Weekday training was the exception in the Guard. For example, from May 1968 to May 1972, when Bush was in good standing, he was not credited with attending a single weekday UTA.

But after 1972, when Bush's absenteeism accelerated, nearly half of his credited UTAs were for weekdays.


To maintain unit cohesiveness, the parameters for substitute service are tightly controlled; drills must be made up within 15 days immediately before, or 30 days immediately after, the originally scheduled drill, according to Guard regulations at the time.

But more than half of the substitute service credits Bush received fell outside that clear time frame. In one case, he made up a drill nine weeks in advance.


On Sept. 29, 1972, Bush was formally grounded for failing to take a flight physical. The letter, written by Maj. Gen. Francis Greenlief, chief of the National Guard Bureau, ordered Bush to acknowledge in writing that he had received word of his grounding.

But no such written acknowledgment exists. In 2000, Bush spokesman Dan Bartlett told the Boston Globe that Bush couldn't remember if he'd ever been grounded.


Bartlett also told the Boston Globe that Bush didn't undergo a physical while in Alabama because his family doctor was in Houston.

But only Air Force flight surgeons can give flight physicals to pilots.


Guard members are required to take a physical exam every 12 months.

But Bush's last Guard physical was in May 1971. Bush was formally discharged from the service in November 1974, which means he went without a required physical for 42 months.


Bush's unsatisfactory participation in the fall of 1972 should have prompted the Texas Air National Guard to write to his local draft board and inform the board that Bush had become eligible for the draft. Guard units across the country contacted draft boards every Sept. 15 to update them on the status of local Guard members. Bush's absenteeism should have prompted what's known as a DD Form 44, "Record of Military Status of Registrant."

But there is no record of any such document having been sent to Bush's draft board in Houston.


Records released by the White House note that Bush received a military dental exam in Alabama on Jan. 6, 1973.

But Bush's request to serve in Alabama covered only September, October and November 1972. Why he would still be serving in Alabama months after that remains unclear.


Each of Bush's numerous substitute service requests should have formed a lengthy paper trail consisting of AF Form 40a's, with the name of the officer who authorized the training in advance, the signature of the officer who supervised the training and Bush's own signature.

But no such documents exist.


During his last year with the Texas Air National Guard, Bush missed nearly two-thirds of his mandatory UTAs and made up some of them with substitute service. Guard regulations allowed substitute service only in circumstances that are "beyond the control" of the Guard member.

But neither Bush nor the Texas Air National Guard has ever explained what the uncontrollable circumstances were that forced him to miss the majority of his assigned drills in his last year.


Bush supposedly returned to his Houston unit in April 1973 and served two days.

But at the end of April, when Bush's Texas commanders had to rate him for their annual report, they wrote that they could not do so: "Lt. Bush has not been observed at this unit during the period of this report."


On June 29, 1973, the Air Reserve Personnel Center in Denver instructed Bush's commanders to get additional information from his Alabama unit, where he had supposedly been training, in order to better evaluate Bush's duty. The ARPC gave Texas a deadline of Aug. 6 to get the information.

But Bush's commanders ignored the request.


Bush was credited for attending four days of UTAs with his Texas unit July 16-19, 1973. That was good for eight crucial points.

But that's not possible. Guard units hold only two UTAs each month -- one on a Saturday and one on a Sunday. Although Bush may well have made up four days, they should not all have been counted as UTAs, since they occur just twice a month. The other days are known as "Appropriate Duty," or APDY.


On July 30, 1973, Bush, preparing to attend Harvard Business School, signed a statement acknowledging it was his responsibility to find another unit in which to serve out the remaining nine months of his commitment.

But Bush never contacted another unit in Massachusetts in which to fulfill his obligation.

Ok everyone I moved this thread to the political debate forum.

Warning this thread contains some personal attacks from members if you continue there will be warnings.

Try to stay on topic and avoid making it personal.

Civil discussion works best for all, and does a much better job of making some kind of point.

Gazz

Originally posted by taibunsuu

No commanders or colleagues remember him at all flying in his F-102?

How does a pilot miss a mandatory flight physical? If you're in the Air Force you must know this is not a joke. It takes a million-dollar pilot out of comission.

I'm only going to address these points because I already addressed the rest of the junk you posted previously. Actually, I addressed it all, but you have proven that you didn't read a single word of what was written, or you wouldn't be asking the same questions over and over...

Go back to the post where I shot down your "documents" and read all about GWB's Flying ability. Are all those folks who say he was a very good fighter jock ghosts? Or are you just ignoring the fact that they flew with him?

Again, He did not take the flight physical because he had been given permission to go to a unit in Alabama that was a NON-FLYING UNIT and do his drill weekends there. What part of NON-FLYING UNIT don't you understand? Those of us on flying status often take a staff job that is non-flying. I have had two such tours myself. When we return to a flying post, we get another flight physical, some retraining, a check ride and POOF, back on flying status. The guard didn't LOSE a pilot, he was performing other duties for a while. Then he was given permission to get out early to go to school, something else that is still done today. Regardless, he still had the points to fulfill his requirements.

Your "proof" is bogus. Period. GWB had the points, and he was honorably discharged, period. No amount of "CBS-ing" on your part can change that. Sorry, that's just the facts, Ma'am....