Is The Talmud Evil?

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


lonewolf wrote: "This book defies Yahweh in a huge way, all that deception and lies, he hates liars and thieves. This Talmud breaks the 10 commandments in a huge way."

So does the New Testament. In fact, that is the entire point of the NT: the whole point of the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles. You call yourself a Christian yet you still follow the ways of the Jews.

Yahweh is NOT the Almighty Father of whom Jesus speaks:

John 8
54Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word.

Matthew 13
11He replied, “The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.

John 14:6
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

Id est: NOT through Moses' 10 Commandments

Yahweh's 5th Commandment:

“Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God has commanded you, so that you may live long and that it may go well with you in the land the LORD your God is giving you.

Jesus' response: "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple." Luke 14:26

reply to post by 1nOne

Jesus' response: "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple." Luke 14:26

This verse is taken in response to Jesus' parable of the Great Supper, the Marriage Feast of the Lamb.

Luke 14:25-33

25 Now great multitudes went with Him. And He turned and said to them, 26 “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. 27 And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple. 28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and count the cost, whether he has enough to finish it— 29 lest, after he has laid the foundation, and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, 30 saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish’? 31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, does not sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand? 32 Or else, while the other is still a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks conditions of peace. 33 So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.

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Some people like to take snipets of scripture and twist them to their own ends. I advise you to stop. This was about dealing with giving up everything to follow Jesus to be his disciple and follower. He was telling people that once you turn to follow him there is no turning back to your mother and father or your family. Ofcourse you can take that verse and come up with your interpretation by not reading it in proper context.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


No, it will not stop until the truth is remembered.

When Jesus speaks of hating one's father and mother, this is an intentional direct contrast with YHWH's commandment to honor the flesh and uphold the bonds of blood. Jesus, on the other hand, commands us to give up the flesh for spiritual salvation. This is what bearing one's cross is all about: sacrificing one's own physical person for that which is greater. Evidently, you have not grasped the meaning of holy communion. Communion, by definition, is the "mutual participation" of the consumption of the body and blood of the sons of man (Adam). The narrative of Jesus and His Apostles is to renounce the carnality of "the god of this world" (i.e. YHWH/Satan):

"And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine: and all flesh shall know that I the Lord am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer."

"Father, INTO YOUR HANDS I COMMIT MY SPIRIT." Having said this, He breathed His last."

Regarding Jesus' own views about renouncing Yahweh's creation (eg. So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.) read Leviticus 27 in the Old Testament concerning YHWH's views on ownership and money then reflect upon Christ's teaching:

"If you have money, don't lend it at interest. Rather, give it to someone from whom you won't get it back."

To the blood offerings, bribery, laws, and tyranny of Yahweh:
What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul? Mark 8:36

reply to post by 1nOne


Luke 22
15And He said to them, “I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer; 16for I say to you, I shall never again eat it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.” 17And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He said, “Take this and share it among yourselves; 18for I say to you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine from now on until the kingdom of God comes.” 19And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 20And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood.

"I will not drink of the fruit of the vine from now on until the kingdom of God comes.” Mistakenly inferred as "Although I fast now, I will drink of the fruit of the vine again later when kingdom comes". Actually means, "Never will I partake in the drinking of the fruit of the vine (the manifestations of this world) again." The kingdom of God is here, now.

As true Christians guided by the Holy Spirit, we recognize the cup to also symbolize the body of Christ. The pouring out of the wine represents letting of the blood.

Luke 22
41And He withdrew from them about a stone’s throw, and He knelt down and began to pray, 42saying, “Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done.”

Cup (ποτήριον) means vessel, or body. "Remove this cup from Me", or separate spirit from body.
The proverbial quest for the Holy Grail, by the way, is deceptive by nature, as it signifies dependence on that which is lesser, the corporeal, in lieu of seeking that which is greater, Spirit.

reply to post by 1nOne


Where do you get Yahweh being Satan at?

The list of Talmudic "quotations" that started this thread has been around for a long time - most of the 20th century - and with the same mangling of the Hebrew titles and citations as proof that this list has been copied exactly without any attempt at double-checking the quotes. Some of them are not even Talmudic, and some are badly translated - and some are just fake.

The Talmud itself is an enormous collection of big volumes - roughly the size of a year's Congressional Record - and being able to find only a page or two of regrettable quotations out of that bulk should indicate that this list is not representative. The Talmud is not an easy read, and some of it is written in a kind of shorthand that requires some effort to figure out the context and proper meaning of the staccato sentences. It requires years of study, and many scholars have produced abridgments and anthologies of selections that don't include anything like what's on that list. (Penguin put out a new anthology only a couple of years ago.) Readers will find much they can agree with in such anthologies.

I strongly suggest this book:
www.amazon.com...

Originally posted by Shoonra
(Penguin put out a new anthology only a couple of years ago.) Readers will find much they can agree with in such anthologies.

It's no doubt an edition intended for Gentile consumption. But, yes, you are correct up to a point. The book I read which exposed the Talmud to me said "No Comment" to large sections of it. The Devil is in the details.

reply to post by 1nOne


Still waiting on where you got Yahweh being Satan from. Jesus wasn't talking about giving up God's creation, he was talking about giving up "the world", or more specifically worldy desires of sin, like fornication, greed, lust, envy, selfishness. Of putting yourself before God instead of putting God first.

If Jesus was giving up God's creation he wouldn't come back to rule it for 1000 years, he would just take all his believers and burn this universe to ash and recreate it right then instead of giving man a third chance to repopulate and replenish the earth for 1000 years.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by 1nOne

 

Still waiting on where you got Yahweh being Satan from. Jesus wasn't talking about giving up God's creation, he was talking about giving up "the world", or more specifically worldy desires of sin, like fornication, greed, lust, envy, selfishness. Of putting yourself before God instead of putting God first.

If Jesus was giving up God's creation he wouldn't come back to rule it for 1000 years, he would just take all his believers and burn this universe to ash and recreate it right then instead of giving man a third chance to repopulate and replenish the earth for 1000 years.

Why do you suppose Jesus and the Apostles never once referred to God as "Yahweh", or, "Jehovah", in the New Testament? Instead, they use, "Kurios" (Lord), "Theos" (God), and "Pater" (Father).

The names of the Old Testament god of the Jews, the creator of this world, are: Yahweh, El Shaddai, El Elyon, El Olam, and Adonai.

Jesus and the Apostles speak of Satan as, "the god of this world", "the prince of this world", "the prince of the power of the air". It's not hard to see the connection.

The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 2 Corinthians 4:4

No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 2 Corinthians 11:14

Jesus to the Jews (John 8):

44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father.
54 Jesus answered, “If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God’; 55 and you have not come to know Him, but I know Him; and if I say that I do not know Him, I will be a liar like you, but I do know Him and keep His word.

reply to post by 1nOne

Again, the devil took him up into an exceedingly high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

And said unto him, All these things will I give you, if you will fall down and worship me.

Then said Jesus unto him, Begone, Satan: for it is written, You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve.Matthew 4:10

Some translations say jehovah some say yahweh. Did you like get that from one of those anti christian websites?

Originally posted by vaelamin
reply to post by 1nOne

 

Again, the devil took him up into an exceedingly high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

And said unto him, All these things will I give you, if you will fall down and worship me.

Then said Jesus unto him, Begone, Satan: for it is written, You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve.Matthew 4:10

Some translations say jehovah some say yahweh. Did you like get that from one of those anti christian websites?

No. I taught myself to read Koine Greek and read the scriptures in their authentic form, as it was written by the Apostles, themselves.

reply to post by 1nOne


Is there any reason to expect Hebrew names of God to be written in Koine Greek?

Originally posted by DenyObfuscation
reply to post by 1nOne

 

Is there any reason to expect Hebrew names of God to be written in Koine Greek?

They are written in Koine Greek in the Septuagint. Not in the NT.

reply to post by 1nOne


The NT was written in Greek. Why would the Apostles write Hebrew names in Greek? It's a simple question.

Originally posted by DenyObfuscation
reply to post by 1nOne

 

The NT was written in Greek. Why would the Apostles write Hebrew names in Greek? It's a simple question.

An example from Wikipedia:
"Jesus" is a transliteration, occurring in a number of languages and based on the Latin Iesus, of the Greek Ἰησοῦς (Iēsoûs), itself a hellenization of the Hebrew יְהוֹשֻׁעַ (Yĕhōšuă‘, Joshua) or Hebrew-Aramaic יֵשׁוּעַ (Yēšûă‘).

The Free Dictionary:
trans·lit·er·ate (trns-lt-rt, trnz-)
tr.v. trans·lit·er·at·ed, trans·lit·er·at·ing, trans·lit·er·ates
To represent (letters or words) in the corresponding characters of another alphabet.
[trans- + Latin littera, ltera, letter + -ate.]

The name, "John", can be transliterated as: Sean, Juan, Ivan, Hans, Johan, Jack, Ian, Jane, Jean, Giovanni, etc...Had Jesus and His Apostles been indeed worshipping Yahweh, common sense dictates the name would have been transliterated at least once by one of the authors of NT scripture. It was not.

Consider the idea that Jesus, and just about every Apostle, were all persecuted, tortured and slain at the behest of the Jews. Surely they would have met a different fate had they been merely preaching the innocuous, "Love thy neighbor" message.

More support evincing the distinction between YHWH of the Old Testament and Pater/Theos/Kurios of the NT:

www.thoughts.com...

(ironically originally from a mainstream Christian site arguing for the insertion of YHWH/Jehovah in the NT)

We are not told that the Apostles were killed "at the behest of the Jews". Peter we know was killed by the Romans, and the folklore about the deaths of the others seldom blames the Jews.

Originally posted by 1nOne

Originally posted by vaelamin
reply to post by 1nOne

 

Again, the devil took him up into an exceedingly high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

And said unto him, All these things will I give you, if you will fall down and worship me.

Then said Jesus unto him, Begone, Satan: for it is written, You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve.Matthew 4:10

Some translations say jehovah some say yahweh. Did you like get that from one of those anti christian websites?

No. I taught myself to read Koine Greek and read the scriptures in their authentic form, as it was written by the Apostles, themselves.

You taught yourself to read Koine Greek? That's good! Well, for the NT anyway.

If, however, you are reading the OT through the filter of Koine Greek, you have made a grave error. The LXX is classed as one of the corrupted versions of the OT. You need to read the OT in the original Hebrew for the ultimate in understanding, for the same reason to read the NT in Koine Greek.

Your view on the God of the OT is incorrect, and easily refuted. We know that the name the God of the burning bush gave to Moses is usually translated as "I Am That I Am." In Hebrew, it is the Tetragrammaton, or transliterated, YHWH/YHVH. Now that is often rendered as "Yahweh." Now if we plug in the very ancient pictographic meaning of those four letters, they read: "Behold the Hand, Behold the Nail." Do I really need to connect the dots any further for you?

reply to post by Lazarus Short


In what Jesus and the Apostles actually said, wrote and did, is where faith belongs, and not in the sophomoric attempts of men to make straight paths crooked.

Colossians 3

5 Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry. 6 For it is because of these things that he wrath of God will come upon the sons of disobedience, 7 and in them you also once walked, when you were living in them. 8 But now you also, put them all aside: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and abusive speech from your mouth. 9 Do not lie to one another, since you laid aside the old self with its evil practices, 10 and have put on the new self who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the One 11 a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian,slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all.


Re: fallacious interpretation of the Tetragrammaton (YHWH is not Jesus Christ)

Posted by U14744598 on Thursday, 13th January 2011 permalink

"All pictographic alphabets utilize pictures to evoke syllables and consonants -- not meanings. So (in English) a picture of a house is pronounced "H". A picture of a bird is pronounced "B". Vowels are not used.
The word "boat" (B-T) does not mean that a bird is a tomato.

Pictographic alphabets utilize pictures to evoke syllables and consonants -- not meanings. I know this precisely BECAUSE I studied the history of alphabets. I used English examples because that is all the BBC will allow here. Obviously they were unreal, but they made the point perfectly. So, utilizing my substitution of English for Paleo-Hebrew, The word "boat" (B-T) does not mean that a bird is a tomato.

So the notion that "the Tetragrammaton seems to be Hand/Arm Behold Nail Behold or Behold the Hand and Arm Behold the Nail" is equally ridiculous.
As is the notion that "Av (father) is made up of Aleph (originally Ox - meaning strong/leader) & Bet (originally house). So leader [of the] house - Father."

Your proposal is sheer lunacy. Would you care to offer an academic source for your assertions? I don't mean your "We are Christians pretending to be Jews" and "Jesus is Lord (YHWH) websites. I mean academic sources."

www.bbc.co.uk...

Originally posted by Shoonra
We are not told that the Apostles were killed "at the behest of the Jews". Peter we know was killed by the Romans, and the folklore about the deaths of the others seldom blames the Jews.

Folklore?

Matthew 27

24 When Pilate saw that he was accomplishing nothing, but rather that a riot was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd, saying, “I am innocent of this Man’s blood; see to that yourselves.” 25 And all the people (Jews) said, “His blood shall be on us and on our children!” 26 Then he released Barabbas for them; but after having Jesus scourged, he handed Him over to be crucified.

Quotes that people post all over the internet "from the talmud" to make it look bad are either entirely fabricated or taken out of context. I am no longer of that faith, but in the past I nearly converted to Orthodox Judaism, and am very well read on it. I came across people posting these evil sounding quotes all over the internet, and was pretty surprised to find out that most of them didn't even exist at all. They were just completely made up. I mean, I would have thought they would be at least BASED ON something, but in many cases they were just complete fabrications. In other cases, they just did terrible translations and/or took them way out of context, as if they meant something completely different than they actually did.