A Brave New World VS 1984

I believe our society is truly somewhere in-between those two books. I read a wonderful paragraph comparing and contrasting the novels, and I thought all ATS'ers would throughly enjoy.


"What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one. Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egotism. Orwell feared that the truth would be concealed from us. Huxley feared the truth would be drowned in a sea of irrelevance. Orwell feared we would become a captive culture. Huxley feared we would become a trivial culture, preoccupied with some equivalent of the feelies, the orgy porgy, and the centrifugal bumblepuppy. As Huxley remarked in Brave New World Revisited, the civil libertarians and rationalists who are ever on the alert to oppose tyranny "failed to take into account man's almost infinite appetite for distractions." In 1984, Orwell added, people are controlled by inflicting pain. In Brave New World, they are controlled by inflicting pleasure. In short, Orwell feared that what we fear will ruin us. Huxley feared that our desire will ruin us. "



- excerpt by Neil Postman from his foreword in "Amusing ourselves to Death" (1985)



What do y'all think about that

reply to post by truthinfact


Personally I like 1984 a lot more as a book. Now this will sound strange, maybe evil, but I'd love to live in a world like the one from "A Brave New World" where misfits were just taken away, and happiness replaced dreams. In 1984 people were starving, were unhappy, were taking part in wars. In A brave new world people thought they were happy and they didn't care, they didn't kill etc.

Then again in A brave new world people were engineered not born and were somewhat stupid. At the end of the day i'd rather be happy and alive than smart and dead.

The problem is we are between the books, we only get the bad parts from both, not that 1984 had any good parts. This is because we are human and we couldn't survive in a perfect society without hunger, war, poor and rich, religion etc. This is why we will never evolve, I fear this is as good as it gets.

I think they're both right. But it really all depends on the country. North Korea is a real life version of 1984, while the west is a mixture of both books.

I think humans will eventually be born in labs and conditioned to a certain extent, but that is just not happening right now as it was in A Brave New World. We are just being socially engineered by the media.

reply to post by truthinfact


I find myself thinking about Orwell's 1984 more and more these days....

I have never read 'A Brave New World' though. You have inspired me to dig it up.

From the description you gave though, I'd say you are spot on in your assessment.

When will we grow up? Are these books and movies out there to educate us or acclimatise us? These questions are asked on here so much, with good reason.

What could be a third option for us to be in a state of or edging towards?

'Idiocracy' of course could be one, 'Demolition Man' I mentioned in a different thread on a similar issue.

S&F

Originally posted by RanDeLv2
reply to post by truthinfact

 

Personally I like 1984 a lot more as a book. Now this will sound strange, maybe evil, but I'd love to like in a world like the one from "A Brave New World" where misfits were just taken away, and happiness replaced dreams. In 1984 people were starving, were unhappy, were taking part in wars. In A brave new world people thought they were happy and they didn't care, they didn't kill etc.

Then again in A brave new world people were engineered not born and were somewhat stupid. At the end of the day i'd rather be happy and alive than smart and dead.

The problem is we are between the books, we only get the bad parts from both, not that 1984 had any good parts. This is because we are human and we couldn't survive in a perfect society without hunger, war, poor and rich, religion etc. This is why we will never evolve, I fear this is as good as it gets.

Living sedated and apathetic is NOT living. "Misfits", ie people who think independently, being taken away. The world of "Brave New World" is just as evil and horrific as "1984".
It is one brought upon by the people equally as much as any leadership who takes advantage of their sheeplike weakmindedness. That someone would approve of the society illustrated in that book conveys the evil and horror that would be "the 99%".

I vote Brave New World as a favorite.

But I don't see why things from both couldn't be relevant in either story. It is a story after all, but only focusing on one angle, in a world really like the stories, there would be many.

reply to post by pierregustavetoutant


A Brave New World starts from the idea that we will destroy ourselves. We choose not to read, not to think, not to feel. If I lived in such a world and I was one of the misfits I'd rather go to an island with the ones like me than to see all the stupidity around. I'd go right now actually

Come on really why do we live ? All we really want is to be happy, either by having money or respect or sex or power or love ... etc. We reject happiness though, we are never really truly happy.

As for the 99% all we tried to do was useless I see that now. The 1% don't care, if i quit my job someone will take it because he's starving. Only we can save ourselves, but we'd rather buy a new iPhone or watch some new TV show. Sorry to tell you this, but we lost already.

I agree that we are most definitely a mixture. 1984's close-watching technology is a reality, albeit maybe not as out in the open, yet the aura given off by a mass crowd of people, acting together as "society" is definitely the stuff of Brave New World. We even see doublespeak emerging in it's own little way with the LOL's and WTF's and other various acronyms that go unnoticed and languidly ooze from the fingers of the future of the world every 2.5 seconds on every type of data recording device that the mind can perceive, while literal "Soma" and other substances are ingested and are QUITE adept at keeping the masses dumbed down, while also making them think that they are gaining knowledge through the experience, which, in MOST situations, is simply not the case.

Now anyone wanna throw some Fahrenheit 451 in here?

Originally posted by RanDeLv2
reply to post by pierregustavetoutant

 

A Brave New World starts from the idea that we will destroy ourselves. We choose not to read, not to think, not to feel. If I lived in such a world and I was one of the misfits I'd rather go to an island with the ones like me than to see all the stupidity around. I'd go right now actually

Come on really why do we live ? All we really want is to be happy, either by having money or respect or sex or power or love ... etc. We reject happiness though, we are never really truly happy.

As for the 99% all we tried to do was useless I see that now. The 1% don't care, if i quit my job someone will take it because he's starving. Only we can save ourselves, but we'd rather buy a new iPhone or watch some new TV show. Sorry to tell you this, but we lost already.

There was never anything to win or lose. Every single person can "win." It is up to them. Unless you think in purely materialistic terms, and then you'd be just as bad as the alleged "1%".
Happiness has nothing to do with "feeling good."

Are any of you familiar with the idea of Hyper Reality? generating a reality that is more real than our is currently... through the use of technology....


Sort of like Enders Game...


a lot of modern idea's are ripped off of old books I have noticed.

Good thread, thought provoking S&F, I agree we are between the two book worlds. I wonder what the Authors would think of the world we live in today.

A good list of dystopian books. I like The Iron Heel by Jack London the best.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Just downloaded "A Brave New World" haven't read it yet, looking forward to it! I read 1984 in school, then refreshed myself with it a couple of years ago, could go reading it again though! Forgot to say it was a superb book!

reply to post by truthinfact


mmmm very interesting I must say have not read the books but could see how replacing books could lead to future generations being brainwashed. In the past it was written on paper so if you preserved it no one could change it for historians and future generations etc…..Now a days and in the future I could see no paper at all witch will allow changes to the past. Mmmm never looked at this way. Very interesting! Now I have to read the book

reply to post by truthinfact


Good thread.

Both.

I think the consumerism and over-technology describe our society pretty well. But now we can see the begining of censorship and socialism from the 1984. 1984 does describe the average citizen today pretty well too, so it's kinda close too.

S&F

Originally posted by pierregustavetoutant

Originally posted by RanDeLv2
reply to post by truthinfact

 

Personally I like 1984 a lot more as a book. Now this will sound strange, maybe evil, but I'd love to like in a world like the one from "A Brave New World" where misfits were just taken away, and happiness replaced dreams. In 1984 people were starving, were unhappy, were taking part in wars. In A brave new world people thought they were happy and they didn't care, they didn't kill etc.

Then again in A brave new world people were engineered not born and were somewhat stupid. At the end of the day i'd rather be happy and alive than smart and dead.

The problem is we are between the books, we only get the bad parts from both, not that 1984 had any good parts. This is because we are human and we couldn't survive in a perfect society without hunger, war, poor and rich, religion etc. This is why we will never evolve, I fear this is as good as it gets.

Living sedated and apathetic is NOT living. "Misfits", ie people who think independently, being taken away. The world of "Brave New World" is just as evil and horrific as "1984".
It is one brought upon by the people equally as much as any leadership who takes advantage of their sheeplike weakmindedness. That someone would approve of the society illustrated in that book conveys the evil and horror that would be "the 99%".

Sorry but I have to completely disagree. The fact is, in the Brave New world, people were were gennerally happy. there was no war or crime to speak of. Although I was quite sqeamish of how they shose to raise infants. but besides that I cant really say the society was bad. I mean, as Micheal from Cracked.com said about the Star Trek society: "nobody's rebelling....because nothings wrong!" So really, the only protest against such a society can only stem from philosophical mumbo jumbo about "really living" and "being human" which I believe to be a subjective matter. I'm sorry but give me "living sedated and apathetic" ANY DAY. And those who would say that such a thing is "just as evil and horrific as "1984"" are in fact the truly immoral and dangerous ones. For you would fight against a fun and happy society, you would condemn mankind to suffering, all in the name of what YOU think is "really living"...enforced on others.

reply to post by cypherite


The more we know, the more we want to know.. You know? lol

However I think being curious about our origins and the universe are healthy. And relatively knew, considering we didn't know much before the last 80 years