The ATS Conspiracy: Are controversial threads allowed to remain to drive traffic?

reply to post by bknapple32

Originally posted by bknapple32
It seems to me and a few others (quietly) that ATS, whether it be the mods, upper level staff, or both have been allowing the kind of threads that seem to be based on hunches, theories without much fact, or sometimes outright lies to go on and on. Why would this be?

A couple years ago, there is no way a 3-year-old, previously debunked story would stay in the Breaking News Forum for more than 30 minutes. But I see this one has been there over 24 hours... Oh, and it's 17 pages long. I think you're right on. Obama's Hidden Birth Certificate Now Exposed

Even though the creator of this birth certificate admitted that he made it up 3 years ago, And this proof has been posted in the thread, it is left in Breaking News. How embarrassing.

It used to matter. I don't think integrity matters much any more. Traffic matters.

reply to post by bknapple32

It seems to me and a few others (quietly) that ATS, whether it be the mods, upper level staff, or both have been allowing the kind of threads that seem to be based on hunches, theories without much fact, or sometimes outright lies to go on and on. Why would this be? Why, if something is darn near proven to be HIGHLY HIGHLY speculative, does it not go to skunk works or "Highly speculative" sections. Im not calling for outright deletion of these threads. Obviously there will be those of you who disagree that a thread is speculative. But there is also some of you who will believe anything posted on here these days. ( and to be fair some of us who cry hoax at every turn) But why don't they go where ATS classifies where they should belong. If something doesn't have proof, its speculative.

Forgive me but... aside from yourself, of course, who will make up this judge and jury that decides what topics and posts are worthy enough? I mean, what we are saying here is that there is no equality of membership because obviously, some wish to be more equal than others; it will be their opinion that counts more than someone whom may disagree with their divine assessments.

I abhor the [HOAX] category as it is because it allows a select few the power to say what is and is not genuine... either in intent or in fact, or both. This is NOT my idea of denying ignorance.

But... don't fret. If and/or when ATS ever expands its elitist leanings, you can have it all for yourself and hold court over as may as choose to live under that kind of regime.

Have a nice day

reply to post by redoubt


It's not about what topics are good, or stifling speech, it's about making things consistent. Trying to make this about "freedom" is a bit absurd. After all you can still go into "hoaxes" and choose to read/believe as many as you want.

I'm not siding either way on this as it most often works out as observed before: Here is where myths come to perpetuate themselves, and startling revelations to fade off into obscurity. People will believe or rally around those things they are already disposed to, and despite evidence or uncertainties will shun those things that challenge their comfortable beliefs.

reply to post by Erongaricuaro


Of course... no doubt, but when you say your stated purpose is to, "deny ignorance" and then you make money by using your platform to spread (popular) lies... that seems hypocritical... it calls into question your dedication to ATS' stated ideals and it makes you question their ability to fairly moderate discussions.

That's why this is an important topic.

Who would come here if they knew ATS was trying to push an ideological viewpoint, via it's mods, and then covering that up?

That's an extreme reading but at the moment there's a pattern of behaviour which is hard to explain away...

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

A couple years ago, there is no way a 3-year-old, previously debunked story would stay in the Breaking News Forum for more than 30 minutes. But I see this one has been there over 24 hours... Oh, and it's 17 pages long. I think you're right on. Obama's Hidden Birth Certificate Now Exposed Even though the creator of this birth certificate admitted that he made it up 3 years ago, And this proof has been posted in the thread, it is left in Breaking News. How embarrassing. It used to matter. I don't think integrity matters much any more. Traffic matters.

This is it in a nutshell.

Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by redoubt

 

It's not about what topics are good, or stifling speech, it's about making things consistent. Trying to make this about "freedom" is a bit absurd. After all you can still go into "hoaxes" and choose to read/believe as many as you want.

Actually, I can (and would) choose to associate myself with a more worthy website with more open-minded membership. Like I said... the elitists can have it if it ever reduces to this kind of situation.

It's not my site. I have no rights here whatsoever... and i don't assume any. I am merely taking advantage of this forum to detail my opinions on this particular subject. I don't even have to come back to read anyone's reply to them.

If ATS wants to create a council of truth bishops or a prefecture dedicated to informational purity, it's not my place to say... or stay.

They're going to purposefully let this one stay

Wow! This is amazing! The OP's list of posts! Looks like a VERY large portion of one of the two threads specifically mentioned as too long ... were stuffed full of posts from this thread's OP.

That's IRONIC yes?

Edit - Make that BOTH

Well heres an issue eh?

Theres a phrase "damned if you do and damned if you don't"

When things get moved, people cry "censorship! you're burying my subject, the mods are bias!!!"

When things don't get moved people cry "Controversial threads are left to drive ratings, the mods are bias!!!"

There's only one commonality between the two.

However, if you think there is a bias here, there is very little anyone can do about it because its your perception of it I'm afraid.

Although, if you'd listened to last nights ATS Live Show, you would have heard some very forthright opinions on the subject matter.

reply to post by blupblup


Good outlook on the thought, this site will never be able to fully rid itself of possible pests, trolls, etc, but also in the same aspect that we will never have or own EVERYTHING we want, we will never rid ourselves completely of "terrorists," and stuff like such.

I like to think about the motto of the site merely as claiming "Only believe what can be proven, and deny ignorance [especially on this site]" It seems the OP is in fact denying ignorance so no harm done.

However, yes! This site is a business and it must ascertain how it can survive, if it has to feed off of the kids and their cute UFOs to allow us to see when S will HTF or at least allow us to make a judgement for ourselves based on the real news we are able to pluck out, then so be it, after all you can't deny that a good fearmonger thread can be fun from time to time.

Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by Erongaricuaro

 

Of course... no doubt, but when you say your stated purpose is to, "deny ignorance" and then you make money by using your platform to spread (popular) lies... that seems hypocritical... it calls into question your dedication to ATS' stated ideals and it makes you question their ability to fairly moderate discussions.

The first thing one must resolve with themselves is that Above Top Secret is entertainment. Secondly it is a huge information source thanks to a large membership constantly bringing in new topics for amusement, enlightenment, and/or discussion. To arrive at any truth or develop opinion over matters being imported here one must vet their own material and place it in some order of value by way of subscribing to those topics and following their progress, or sadly as in the case of many topics of importance, their lack of progress. Unfortunately often when attempting to revive particular interests a new thread is closed and one is told to continue ongoing discussion on page 67 of a four-year-old thread.

While I find ATS useful, entertaining, and informative on many levels, its use as a departure point to get at the heart of some truly important and concerning matters it becomes useless for need to skirt around The Forbidden Topic whose tentacles are woven into almost every global conspiracy from the foods we eat to the natural resources we utilize, from the minerals and medicines we consume to the clothes we wear is how far-reaching it is, yet we can't go there. By decree, You Can't Get There From Here. Attempts to get at the underlying conspiracy regarding all those elements will find that topic whisked away to the trash bin when so ever it is identified. That is frustrating for anyone that really wants to take seriously the ATS maxim. There is one ignorance they refuse to deny, and the shame is that it is so far-reaching into the heart of so many matters.

Above all, Above Top Secret is a fun and very informative entertainment site.

Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by Erongaricuaro

 

Of course... no doubt, but when you say your stated purpose is to, "deny ignorance" and then you make money by using your platform to spread (popular) lies... that seems hypocritical... it calls into question your dedication to ATS' stated ideals and it makes you question their ability to fairly moderate discussions.

Thats a farcical load of rubbish.

ATS Members make the posts, not the staff and if those posts are within the T&C then they are not moderated, and are left alone. Topics may be moved to the most appropriate forum for them - the reason the forums exist is to make subjects that are similar easier to find.

What you are actually saying is "I don't agree with "x" being a topic of discussion and therefore I want it removed"

ATS is a very busy place lately. Not to mention that real-life is more taxing now that it has been for a long time. Combining the two, we have staff with diminished time to stay on top of an increasingly busy place... so the focus will be more on maintaining decorum, than identifying hoax/fraudulent topics.

But, even with topics that perhaps should be moved sooner that many would like, we still have topics like this getting noticed quickly, and receiving the attention it deserves.

It's not all bad.

reply to post by neformore

Originally posted by neformore
When things get moved, people cry "censorship! you're burying my subject, the mods are bias!!!"

When things don't get moved people cry "Controversial threads are left to drive ratings, the mods are bias!!!"

nefermore, you're right. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. That's part of the job, though.

I think my disagreement with the above statement is that ATS staff's actions shouldn't be based on the membership's "cries" or unreasonable complaints. They should be based on a standard. All the time. Not whether or not someone reports a post or cries "censorship"! I see the thread I spoke about earlier is in the HOAX bin now. I don't think it should have stayed until someone complained about it. It LOOKS like you're letting it grow and get to the top for political reasons (to get traffic). That's what it LOOKS like. After 24 hours, you know? And now that I complained it's moved. You can't blame people for thinking these things.

Yes, you're going to get complaints no matter what you do. But it seems trying to please everyone is giving the impression that the standards don't mean what they used to. To me, anyway. And I fully acknowledge that I could be wrong. I mean, I don't know how you guys handle this board, and you've made it the best of its kind on the Internet.

I don't think there's a political bias here. But with the extreme growth, there's bound to be changes - and for the most part, they are good changes, IMO. But some, I can't accept. And that's fine. ATS is what it is, and as long as I get some enjoyment from it, and you guys allow me to, I will continue to hang out here. But my "feelings" about the site have changed quite a bit, because of the (IMO) changes in standards that I can only attribute to growth of the site. This is just my opinion.

Originally posted by bknapple32
The possible answer? To drive up internet traffic, and thus sell ad revenue perhaps?

Perhaps spending some more time in my shoes might help your ill-conceived perception and conclusion jumping.

The reality is, the more provocative topics we get on ATS, the more difficult it is to secure quality ad campaigns. Higher-paying big-brand advertisers tend not to consider associating themselves with the kind of topics that rise to the top of ATS from time to time. In fact, we've lost out on some significant ad campaigns because we would not remove content the advertiser didn't like (two cases of political content, three conspiracy-related, and two UFO-related).

So the reality is, IF we took on much more proactive editorial control over which topics remained, and which were removed, the control could be fine-tuned to increase our ad rates. But we are, and always will be, editorially neutral except in cases of T&C violations.

reply to post by Erongaricuaro


Ah, the age old topic of greed and taking advantage of another person's misfortune....those topics are still discussed. However when you only wish to focus on one avenue of greed, despite repeated explanations as to why it cannot be discussed within the Terms and Conditions, I have to question what it is that you find to be informational and what you find to be entertainment.

But I do respect your intelligence to talk around the subject rather than to just blurt it out so I will simply remind you that there is a place for everything and everything in its place.

Looks at my watch, yep it has been a week so it is time yet again for the ATS owners/mods have some sort of hidden agenda thread. Balderdash! What you see is a respect for everyone's opinion. What you see is restraint in censoring.

I am the Queen of tiny little threads that go nowhere! I accept that it is my fault. Maybe you should try it.

The treads that explode, are they refined examples of the finest ATS has to offer, no, does anyone for one second think they are? Maybe the posters

Lay off the Mods and Owners will ya, for Pete's sake! Or John's sake, whoever.. They provide this wonderful playground for us, can we not be grateful?

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


I don't want to be toooooo cynical, but I have a bit of knowledge about this and I know that stats alone are often used to sell ads... the owners of the companies whos "win free iPhones" or "one simple trick to lose weight" often have no idea really what sites their ads are on, and they don't care, as long as the stats are high... on top of that, the idea that someone scamming people via fake iPhone/weight-loss/etc., ads are super concerned about what's being discussed on a conspiracy site seems... unlikely...

In other words, based on the ads I see, higher stats would probably equal higher value... whether it's just coincidental that BS birther threads seem to last for hours and hours and hours after they're debunked... I can't say...

Hours after people report them to mods...

...pretty odd.

reply to post by Ahabstar


Quite lengthily we have talked around why we talk around it, though to my satisfaction never quite nailing it. Quite astonishingly to me, though after many years of pursuit of nailing-down the true answer, I believe that within these forums I squarely struck the nerve connected to that answer that would go beyond mere marketing concerns, more onto global economic security concerns. I must admit I found that profoundly entertaining.

On the informational side of the equation, and in-line with my desire to see that nefarious construct topple and fall, I believed getting that information out into the open and accepted would help contribute to my desire. I have come to realize that the whole matter of that greed is so deep-rooted that there exist champions of that status quo that would wreak havoc on myself and anyone involved in that truth's dissemination. Far be it to allow myself to help bring such consequences to my friends at ATS so have tempered my dialog in that regard, somewhat. Still, one day soon I do expect to see it topple and its aftermath need be examined. Unable to widely discuss the aftermath plans I satisfy myself create and visualize the New NWO as a way to help bring it about. Immanentizing the Eschaton, as it were.

I have come to realize I wholly enjoy ATS on so many levels that some peaceful temperance of dialog is necessary to continue a peaceful co-existence here. I can find satisfying the informative entertainment I find imported here and pursue through other ATS avenues my own branded entertainment. After some decades I have recently fancied and began setting up to multi-track some new musical pursuits that can be shared and disseminated in the Off-Topic forums at this site. In other words, I have found new incentive to play nice.