The British WW3 files from 1981 declassified

This is interesting and also shows how quick ``civilization`` goes out the window when it truly hits the fan... well not even hit the fan... just the fear of it...

The World War Three files: For 30 years the papers have been kept secret. Now, the extraordinary story of how Whitehall drew up terrifyingly detailed plans for nuclear armageddon can finally be revealed

March 1981, and inside 10 Downing Street, Margaret Thatcher is confronting the most terrible dilemma any British Prime Minister has ever faced.

The news could hardly be worse. Across Britain, tens of thousands of terrified people are streaming out of the major cities. Looting is widespread, while every day brings bomb attacks at railway stations and RAF bases.

Abroad, the Red Army has sliced through the West’s defences, using chemical weapons to punch through Nato’s front lines. Yugoslavia has fallen, and West Germany and Norway are on the verge of succumbing.

After four days of Russian air raids, killing hundreds of people in Glasgow, Liverpool, Manchester and Southampton, Mrs Thatcher faces the ultimate decision. On her desk is a message from the Supreme Allied Commander in Europe, asking for authorisation to launch a nuclear attack across the Iron Curtain.

She tells her colleagues that never before has a British Cabinet faced ‘such a grim choice’.

But there is no alternative — and with the world staring into the nuclear abyss, Mrs Thatcher gives the go-ahead.

A more detailed report at the link...

If you read it all... it seems to me that the Soviet Union wouldn't have used chemical weapons in a first strike... chemical weapons against troops are worthless since they are trained for that scenario... (or maybe back in 1981, troops weren't trained for that? Any expert??)

But I think the whole scenario is pretty credible... and it ends with Tatcher giving the go ahead for nuclear strikes on eastern europe countries... seems to me the Soviet Union would have fired back everything they've got after that and civilization in the western world would have been over.

reply to post by Vitchilo

Speaking as someone who lived through that period in the UK, I can tell you that Margaret was nothing but a dumb puppet. As for this scenario actually happening, I find it very unlikely. I am sure secret plans were made, but never intended to be executed. I personally do not believe that anyone on this planet would dare (or be so stupid enough) to be the first to launch any kind of nuclear device in these kinds of numbers. Yes, I know the missiles are all ready and waiting but imho it is nothing but a way to keep everyone scared and pleased with their oh so cunning military industrial complexes.

There was also a rather well-known TV movie that aired around this time, just to reinforce the message of post-nuclear holocaust type scenarios in the UK. Threads, made in a documentary kind of style, following the lives of several people as and after the bombs fell. It certainly got everyone talking. I think the UK were just trying to profit from the last waves of the US/USSR Cold War.

I think we should be for afraid of a nuclear Holocaust now that there is a possible that nuclear weapons are the the hands of people that very much crazy (North Korea)

reply to post by starwarsisreal

yes - people like france, usa or every person who knows where a black market is....

A-Bomb my A**....just another fear scenario...seriously...with some biologic-101 you can make a ugly virus....or with chemistry 101....

it all depends on the mind of the user....and so we are again at my first sentence....

Phenomenally interesting topic. One of the great "what ifs" of history.

Fortunately the Soviets waited and the workers revolution never happened in Europe as planned.

In a WW3 scenario britian would be so fast to die, they are on an island and have no way to ship in supplies. The only thing they grow is probably potatoes. First country to die in WW3 in my prediction.

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
In a WW3 scenario britian would be so fast to die, they are on an island and have no way to ship in supplies. The only thing they grow is probably potatoes. First country to die in WW3 in my prediction.

I disagree. If it was still a conventional war (meaning that the UK has not been nuked into glass), then the very fact that it is a fortified island would make it an important strategic location for NATO. An island cannot be invaded by a ground army, which was the Warsaw Pact's strongest asset. Also, NATO navies would bolster the ocean around the UK.

In fact, I would see the UK as standing more of a chance than all of Europe, if the war was conventional (pretty much the same thing as what happened in WWII).

I personally find this very interesting. I love what-if scenarios - I have scores of books like Red Storm Rising, SSGB, How Few Remain, all positing different outcomes or turn of events in history. Thankfully, we never got to see "Thatchos" (God I love that joke) ever have to actually follow through on those...

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


That would make us very upset.....scorched earth upset.No one can do it like us.And we would rather not have to do so.That would equally upset us.

reply to post by Vitchilo


Troops have been trained on dealing with chemical weapon attacks since the first world war. after the French, Germans then British all started using tear gas then rapidly stepped up to using chlorine, phosgene then mustard gas. Since then the gases have only got more lethal...

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
In a WW3 scenario britian would be so fast to die, they are on an island and have no way to ship in supplies. The only thing they grow is probably potatoes. First country to die in WW3 in my prediction.

Well you know absolutely nothing......we are a self sufficient island........"the only thing they grow is potatoes"

Pathetic statement!

In a WW3 scenario britian would be so fast to die, they are on an island and have no way to ship in supplies. The only thing they grow is probably potatoes. First country to die in WW3 in my prediction.

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


The UK still has one of the world's largest Merchant Navies, perhaps they could use those to "ship" in supplies?

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
In a WW3 scenario britian would be so fast to die, they are on an island and have no way to ship in supplies. The only thing they grow is probably potatoes. First country to die in WW3 in my prediction.

You really are a tool of the highest order.

You continually pontificate as if you are god's gift to military knowledge, Iran this, US that etc.

Then to compound it, you make totally ignorant (borderline xenophobic) comments like the one above about BRITAIN and potatoes.

You can take your predictions and shove them right up your hairy 'arris me old china. Inflammatory troll that you are............

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


lmao If you are going to slag off another country then at least try and get your stereotypes right. Eire or Ireland if you prefer (I'm aware most trolls esp. from the U.S. have no idea of geography outside of your borders ) is the country famous for growing potatoes (think potato famine) but again this is utter nonsense as the Irish too grow many crops.

To the two previous posters .... well said .

Ok back on topic. this is nothing new,(and the end result was always the same.)
There were scenarios of this type worked out every 2-3 years on average , and during the cold war there were annual exercises / wargames involving all those who would be involved in a real war .
this even included sending our Military and Political folks down into the national and regional bunkers, ( see my profile pic ).

if anyone is interested I have tons of info on this subject including links to de-classified scenarios, plans , and even some of the old Cold-War rules and terms of nuclear engagement that is kept in the `War Book`.

and if you are a bookworm I highly recommend Peter Hennessey`s book :

The Secret State: Preparing For The Worst 1945 - 2010
or
Cabinets and the Bomb

and if its just the infrastructure you are interested in this book is great:
Nick McCamley - Cold war Secret Bunkers ( the passive defence of the western world)



Thanks

Snoopyuk

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
In a WW3 scenario britian would be so fast to die, they are on an island and have no way to ship in supplies. The only thing they grow is probably potatoes. First country to die in WW3 in my prediction.

I was expecting this from a West hater (tho a US citizen).You know very well that UK can be self-suficient, yet, you spit out your dirty propaganda.

I bet that in your twisted mind, Russia , China and Iran are the most advanced and freedom loving countries on this planet and will rule it.

Well, this is JUST inside your twisted mind.

You soooo gonna get a nasty wake-up after Iran gets his a.ss kicked and NOBODY will do shi.t about it.

Originally posted by LightSpeedDriver
I personally do not believe that anyone on this planet would dare (or be so stupid enough) to be the first to launch any kind of nuclear device in these kinds of numbers. Yes, I know the missiles are all ready and waiting but imho it is nothing but a way to keep everyone scared and pleased with their oh so cunning military industrial complexes.

With all due respect, one nation has already used them.

If history serves us well we can see that the most technologically advanced nation on the planet were the ones who had the biggest desire for the suffering of humanity. Look at Germany and the Holocaust...

In today's standards, we see the US as the superpower, and with all due respect the way they go around acting as the world aggressor, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if they used them at some point first...

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
In a WW3 scenario britian would be so fast to die, they are on an island and have no way to ship in supplies. The only thing they grow is probably potatoes. First country to die in WW3 in my prediction.

Another utterly pathetic post from you.. Have you ever served in the armed forces?

I have a good mind to come over there and set fire to your moustache sir..

reply to post by jrmcleod

I realise that Nagasaki and Hiroshima were bombed but that wasn't so much to start a war as to try and end one or whatever the reason. Regardless, it never (thankfully) escalated further although I cringe when I think of the suffering still going on there today with misformed babies and all the other conditions that come with nuclear weapons.

Now is a different time. Like the film War Games (imho) correctly portrayed in its computer game of Thermo Nuclear War, the first one to launch one now will probably start off a chain reaction (pun not intended) of launches from all sides. If I die, you die, kinda mentality. And to be honest, who could blame a retaliation? The one who throws the first punch is often found to be the guiltiest in a court of law, or so I thought.

Anyway, let's hope such a thing never does come to happen, something I still believe won't. *Crosses fingers for luck*

As for super powers, what goes around comes around, First it was the Europeans of varying nations (seafaring days), then Germany, then Russia and the US with their cold war. Some say China will soon be next to flex it's military might. Time will tell but it's all a cycle.

Every nuclear power had similar plans - "what if" scenarios.

The US even had (and probably has an updated version now) plans for invading Britain if necessary. If you worry about these sort of things you would never sleep!

My old professor on my first degree worked at Porton Down in his previous life - some of the ideas / theories they came up with at that one particular site would frighten the bejesus out of any right minded individual. And there are many many places like that in all of the major powers and most of the minor ones too.

When you get right down to it, we are very inventive when it comes to slaughter - an off shoot of this is having to formulate plans in case anyone else turns out to be as sneaky and devious.......