Are men the true degraded ones enslaved to gender roles?

Studies show from birth males babies naturally will receive less affection from their mothers unknowingly. As baby boys grow they are bought violent toys, guns and overly muscles action figures. Imprinting into their minds that this is what you must become on a certain level. When he reaches his middle teen years boys are tuaght by their fathers to be what they define as men. If that boy is in a single mother house the boy is told he is the new utilitarian object of the house.

From here males learn how to be the perfect utilitarian objects. Protect your wife/kids, die for your country, work work work, suppress certain emotions, only take on jobs society deems as manly, can't show depression, act a certain way, think a certain way and you can't even like baby-blue or the color pink. If that grown man just so happened to become useless or no longer a utilitarian tool to be used by lifeforms society shames him for it. Other men will look at you as less of a man and most female will not desire to mate with you. Society will tell them they have no honor or pride simply because they want out of gender roles.

Is the life of a male pure slavery? Most men will defend and justify their slavery with words like honor and pride. Those two words form a construction of imprisonment of society to keep men in those roles. What would happen if men woke up one day and didn't want to be what society demanded of them. What if men stopped wanting to prove themselves to women and society. What if men embrace both feminine and masculine traits? I bet this world would do a 180. You see if male issues were solves feminism wouldn't even exist, less hypermasculine wars of who has the biggest size, less violence in general.

I believe a large part of this plays into what kind of males women demand. So many guys will act hyper-macho or even use violence to prove their worth as a macho male so in return he gets the female. She gets her macho guy while the male just doomed his existence. He is a mindless animal a part of a never cycle of proving his hypermasculine worth simply because in the back of his mind he wanted a partner. If more women stepped up and help/demanded men be free from this cycle the world would be a better place. Sadly, thanks to evolution many females play into "I need a provider" thinking. Soon as that desire hits women it starts a chain reaction that always ends in men becoming a slave to a role and most men will blindly buy into the whole honor/pride construct, not realizing they are utilitarian objects to be used by mother and child.

What's even more sad is that both gender support male slavery, Society will have no mercy on those few males who wish for gender freedoms. Most likely you will even be alone for the rest of your life because you aren't the utilitarian work machine women desire. This is the cold harsh reality for men everyday. Most men can never have it both ways like women do. A guy is either a tool of the system or he is free but alone because of it.

reply to post by Alyssa


Sounds like somebody needed more hugs. I am a male and have always competed in contact sports. To name a few, boxing (gloden gloves), tae kwon do, judo, kickboxing. Most of the guys I have met are truly respectful guys because of their sport of choice. There are a##holes among the men I have met, but they are a minority. Women have just as many a##holes on their side of the fence. Someone that talks like you sounds like they loath the fact that someone is willing and capable of fighting for the defense of themselves and their families. Don't hate the strong because they intimidate you. I have never felt like a slave to my masculinity nor will I ever.
Wether you are a guy who is afraid to admit you like pink or you are a woman that despises men for their strength (it is hard to tell by your unisexed avatar), you need to find yourself before saying the things you are saying.
I almost even wondered if anything was being said other than a rant induced by jealousy of the strong providers in this world, who don't feel guilty for being what you can't.

I agree to an extent. Society does make us take on gender roles that are society specific. Other societies have had unique takes on gender roles and played them out different. BC Romans for example. To take it a step further, society defines WHO you are. Not as a man or woman but as a person. Likes, and dislikes ultimately makes you who you are as a whole. Who controls "Public Opinion" the public?

reply to post by Alyssa


How about the Indian "cast" society? That is one to go on about. In that society you will never live up to your potential because you are labeled and the different labels are the determining factors of how far you can go in that society. That is a true form of what you speak of.

Originally posted by jordanfutchy
Who controls "Public Opinion" the public?

Good line, I like that. That same "public" in ancient times were hunters and gatherers. If women had been the strongest of the set they would have been the ones out hunting (getting their macho on). But, they weren't, it was the males. Those same males through every generation has to pass "it" (the macho) down. To prepare the boy for what life (and the public) will require of him to survive he will have to be taught certain things.
If you don't believe it, dress your son in some girls clothes and tell him it is alright because it doesn't matter what the world will think. He/you will experience one of two scenarios after your experiment. You can imagine that for yourself.

I'm sure the hardcore feminists will be here any second now, but honestly... I think you've hit the nail fair smack on the head. You understand men WAY better than most females would.

As much we love to think of modern society as "progressive", the gender stereotypes are still very much alive and kicking. I'm definately partly to blame by marrying a "traditional" asian girl with the old fashioned "women look after the kids, men bring in the money" attitude, but personally I'm suffering at the moment from the exact stereotype you describe. My life consists of work, pay bills, sleep, work some more, cut out alchohol, junk food, clubbing, car modifications, weekend cruises, travel, gym, basically everything that used to make me, "me" in order to ensure my wife has a "stable" environment (read: shopping & eating out with friends every other day and basically not have to worry about where her next meal is going to come from or holding any real responsibility).

For a long time I thought there were something very very wrong with my relationship and had many unfruitful arguments with her over equal share of responsibility (to which she has never been able to understand my point and acts as though I'm the worst husband in the world)... after talking to a number of married mates, including my parents that have been married 30years and counting, I found out that my situation is "normal".

I think the root of the problem is that alot of women (but not all) are yet to acknowledge that equality means they have to forgo some of the luxuries that they have been able to enjoy for many decades. They want/expect to be treated like princesses and have complete freedom without giving anything back in return (again I stress that I'm saying "alot of women", not "all women").

Men & women are ying & yang...there has to be a balance. 50years ago before the equal rights movement things were unbalanced in favour of men, and now with the feminist movement & feminisation of the "new" generation, the scales are tipping in favour of women.

We're never going to get the whole battle of the sexes/races thing right until we stop thinking of male/female, black/white, and start thinking in terms of "you're a human, and that's another human. That person has a certain set of strengths, and that other person has a different set of strengths". Whether someone is male, female, caucasian, asian or african should be treated as a fact, not something that defines their worth/responsibilities.

MAn have you hit the nail on my head with this OP. The very thing thats been pulling me down today just as you described....
A life of servitude while everyone acts as if I should do the things I do because I happened to be born with this XY chromosome...

Worst thing is I cant do a damn thing about it. Just have to suck it up and keep on going... Hope tomorow will be better

im on the understanding of females specialy in the west aint as lady like as they could be in your explanation, They are very much well aware of being able to achieve what men can, why do you think there's female leaders ect?

But where as you point out a indian i believe it was, Well im sure it's more to do with there religious views not a natural wild life instinct which you describe of male impressing the female to get the goodie's.

Originally posted by LordGoofus

As much we love to think of modern society as "progressive", the gender stereotypes are still very much alive and kicking. I'm definately partly to blame by marrying a "traditional" asian girl with the old fashioned "women look after the kids, men bring in the money" attitude, but personally I'm suffering at the moment from the exact stereotype you describe. My life consists of work, pay bills, sleep, work some more, cut out alchohol, junk food, clubbing, car modifications, weekend cruises, travel, gym, basically everything that used to make me, "me" in order to ensure my wife has a "stable" environment (read: shopping & eating out with friends every other day and basically not have to worry about where her next meal is going to come from or holding any real responsibility).

We're never going to get the whole battle of the sexes/races thing right until we stop thinking of male/female, black/white, and start thinking in terms of "you're a human, and that's another human. That person has a certain set of strengths, and that other person has a different set of strengths". Whether someone is male, female, caucasian, asian or african should be treated as a fact, not something that defines their worth/responsibilities.

Ya know, I think it all comes down to carefully choosing who you marry. Here you married a girl that you knew had traditional values and afterwards expected her to change because you aren't happy with the arrangement. I am not blaming you for that only pointing it out, we all change and grow even after we are married. People need to find out who their partners are before marriage, its all roses and sunshine when you are dating and it doesn't seem that a whole lot of talk about what each other expects out of the deal takes place. There are many marriages like yours and there are many where both parties work and both take care of the children equally.

I think your second paragraph above hits the nail on the head. We should respect each other period. I love my husband and I want him to be a fulfilled human being and I hope that he wants the same for me. I want him to explore his interests, go on adventures, and become who he wants to be as a person. I would also like these things for myself and I think it takes a lot of negotiation with in marriage especially when kids come into the picture to make that happen realistically where one partner doesn't feel neglected and taken advantage of. It all comes down to communicating and letting your significant other know what you NEED and EXPECT from the relationship, preferably before marriage and continuing throughout.

reply to post by Alyssa


Nice post.

I'd also like to add some more observations. Men seems to me to be the cannon fodder of life as well. In action movies we can watch for hours as men are murdered indiscriminately by "the hero", if the movie was about slaughtering waves of women, we might be less inclined to watch it. What affect does this have, if any, on generations of people who watch television constantly? It's easier on the conscience to send armies of men to fight wars, not because they would fight better than an army of women, but because it's easier to watch men die in large ammounts.

It's not males who are enslaved. It is people in general. Males do the exact same thing to women with their bodies; Males have ridiculously high expectations for what the female body should and should not look like, and they shame women for not fulfilling their expectations. Males often expect that females WILL stay in the house and look after the kids, and that the men will go out and do the work. Men shame women for having sex and then use women for sex, trapping all women in a constant "virgin/whore" paradox that is nearly impossible to escape. Your points are valid, but this is certainly not a one-sided issue. Gender roles in general are silly, and even as a woman myself its hard to escape from having certain expectations about what I want in a man and how I think women should act.

reply to post by Alyssa


I'm really not sure where you live, but if you take a look around pretty much any city in America you will see that what you are saying isn't quite true. I will admit that my marriage and my life in general could be described in the victimistic terms that you wrote about, but neither my wife nor I feel like we are slaves to gender roles. I am a rather large (not fat) man. At 6'6" and 275 pounds I can be very intimidating when I need to be. I did what you would call fairly typical man type of things growing up - several sports, 3 years in the army, physical labor type jobs for a big portion of my life, etc. I am not a typical man because society teaches me that or some other victim terminology. I am "manly" because I truly like being a man. I am not some macho musclebound a$$hole, but I am fairly big and I truly love being the "provider and protector". At home my wife and I are both equally "in charge" of our finances, children, household chores, etc., and I actually do the majority of the cooking. I would say that my wife is probably more "in charge" than I am.

But enough about me. Although I live a somewhat typical life that you describe, all you have to do is look around. There are plenty of more "feminine" types of men around as well as more "masculine" women. And I am not just referring to the LGBT population. Many "straight" men are more and more "feminine" all the time and vice-versa and who really cares? The reality is that we live in more of a "to each his own" type of society. Aside from some people who have problems with these "differently gendered" people, the majority of us (at least in America) are completely fine with lifestyles that are not "typical". In addition, most male/female couples nowadays both go to work and provide equally...although I live in Washington state and have grown up where "different" people are accepted just the same as anyone else.

So in reality, it seems to me that this is more of a "traditional family" bashing thread than anything else. I guess the question really should be - why do you have a problem with those of us who are a little more "traditional"? Stop the straight hate.

I don't mean to sound sexist when I say this... But perhaps men are expected to be strong and providers because since the beginning of our human history we have always been the hunters and shelter builders...

I'm not saying a woman can't be strong but men are usually the ones born with higher muscle density and endurance. Hence why it is expected of men to be in the way you described.

My friend's great grandparents were from Poland. Great grandpa had his advice about women, so did great grandma. After grandpa died and she was dating again she said with a thick accent, "Men! They are handy to have around!" That pretty much says it all.

reply to post by Alyssa

Men who are out of touch with their feminine creative intuitive side, are only half of a full human being, perhaps even less since that's our better half.

reply to post by Alyssa


Just because it is the current societal norm to be as stereotypical as possible doesn't mean we have to be stereotypical.

Be who you are, and don't waste time feeding into these false ideas of gender roles.

You will be surprised to know that not all male/female relationships play out as you have described in the OP.

Spot-on, immaculate description.

reply to post by Alyssa


very well thought out and you raise very good points. The very nature of organizing information and expectation is bound to limit all that falls under its wide reach so its hard to say whether men or women have it worse; rather that both are subjected to unrealistic expectations to fractionalize the inherent genderlessness within them.

Culture is not your friend. Drugs will help you learn you can act any way you like. Being a sociopath will teach you in order to get what you want from society you need to play a roll. You never have to be a slave to any thing. people get taught then willing choose their rolls in society(however its unfortunate most will accept these rolls without considering an alternative). if you want what society offers you need to play the part or you can be an individual. but just know society's eyes will label you as you choose to be.