Watch this 60 minute documentary, and try not to be angry, I dare you. This is World War, swept unde

Originally posted by kevpa
My comment in this thread isn't to reply to the OP, but to reply to the many people saying how beloved Gaddafi was to his people by giving them free electricity and free money, etc. While that may be a fact that he did those things, the other fact was that he was a Dictator, and if you want to live in a country that is run by a single person then why not do so? I'm just shocked at all the "love" being spewed out to someone who came to power through a military coup who then abolished his own country's constitution in favor of his own ideology. He was worshiped by his people for the things he gave them. Now instead of wanting to live in a country where you are just given money and property and everything else for free, wouldn't you want to live in a country where you have to work to get what you want? I assume the answer lies in what you believe, and I believe in living in a society where I work for what I want and live and think for myself.

But yes, there is brainwashing going on in our country by our gov't and the msm, but I feel more for the people of Libya who were brainwashed by the same person for over 40 years. Now that makes me mad.

Where do you come up with the people of Libya didn't work and were given everything for free? The government gave incentives to farmers and newly married couples, made housing and healthcare affordable, supplied low cost gas, free energy and 0% interest loans.

When so many Americans are heaped in unreasonable "loan shark" debt, loosing thier homes, being taxed to death to support wars most don't agree with, and those that do, have probably been effectively "brainwashed" to believe Irac and Libya and now Iran pose any real threat to the US? Oh, but wait, we are "liberating" the people of these countries from unjust leaders?

I think many "working" Americans that have to juggle the bills to keep food on the table and the lights on, while trying to pay back unreasonable medical bills, morgages based on half of what thier home was once worth. Let's not forget gas for transportation, education costs, insurance, fines, the list goes on and on and on! These Americans may not paint such a "rosey" picture of how great we have it here anymore.

Gaddafi invested the wealth and resources generated by his country into infra-structure and improving the quality of life for ALL Lybia's citizens, Libya was debt free. America is selling off our infra-structure to other countries because we are trillions of dollars in debt and don't be surprised when we are forced to pay tolls to use roads and highways WE, the tax payer payed for, to other countries who now own them. Who gave them that right?

It's all so obscene, sad, and out of control. I'll spare you my sad story other than to say, I went to a good college, built a career I worked hard at it for 25 years (15 years at co. I was layed off from), bought a home, played by the rules I was taught, and now I guess,at almost 50 years old, I would be considered the "newly" poor, and I'm pissed ! I defineatly appreciate it took this crisis effecting my life personally in such a drastic way for me to get more involved and educate myself, and for that I do feel much regret. For those of you that still enjoy financial security, I wish you nothing but good, I would only ask that you consider how "fragile" that could be. If the American economy crashes, as it appears to be heading that way, how much will anything anyone owns or has in savings be worth? Will you be allowed to keep your property and assets?

reply to post by MountainLaurel


Again, I just said it was my opinion of how I want to live. Sure the military intervention was a bit shady, but since when did bowing down to a Dictator become the hip thing to do, especially in the US? I didn't say the Libyans didn't work, but the amount of "free" things given out by Gaddafi to his people, such as free electricity, 0% bank loans, newlywed's receiving $50,000usd to buy their first home, their first car was half paid for, if you got a degree you got paid cash money until you got a job, etc. etc. I just don't want some guy who's been in power for 40 years, at his choice, to write the laws that govern MY life. If you lived under Gaddafi, then that was it, you had zero choice but to follow HIS laws and obey him as your owner. And for how long would those free gifts from their precious dictator last? I have principals, and I won't bow to any one single person. I work very hard for my money, and won't apologize for what I got in return for my hard work. It seems we have gotten very lazy as a country, so now we resort to praising a Dictator who gave his people free stuff. Again, just my opinion.

reply to post by kevpa


I guess we would have to better devine the term "dictator" which from a western point of view is a tyranical person who governs without the concern and well-being of his citizens for selfish purposes. I don't think that definition fits Gaddafi. I guess the people weren't given an opportuity to vote him out, however he established a "people's congress" so all citizens had a right to be heard, and who's to say that having the same leader for longer than 8 years isn't a good thing? There was no passing the buck to another president and starting from scratch, keeping progress stalled with this insane power struggle between democrats and republicans, who I believe are ultimately both funded by the "REAL" powers in control, the banks and corporations. Free elections by the people don't even hold water anymore because we all know there's not a chance in hell that unless politcians play ball with the "big dogs" they have no prayer of being elected. Are we in the US truely represented by our senators and congressman in anykind of genuine way? There is so much nepitism in politics, are you so sure our leaders aren't a "group" of dictators? I think so, they are just greedier and more tricky, they must have a great laugh at how they managed to fool us all into thinking we ever really had a choice.

I'm sure you worked hard, and like I said before, I'm happy you still have your slice of the pie. Again all I can do is encourage you to consider how "fragile that may be, and not turn a blind's eye to what's going on around you just because it hasn't directly effected you yet.

Good luck

Originally posted by Stop-loss!
reply to post by Hyaena

 

That too was the best part of all. Seeing all that security with Obama's convoy made me realize how he knows that people are out to get him for the corrupt things hes done and his fellow criminals.

That "convoy" as you so stated was actually just a shot of the police in New York City doing their practice drill. They do these quite often and it has nothing to do with the President. He's not even in town when these occur.

A lot of things were falsified in that video. Not to mention the countless phrases that were taken entirely out of context in order to further the video creator's personal agenda.

Massive wars are nothing but the games of the evil men that cause them. It takes acts of great trickery or aggressiveness to start wars and it is usually the fault of a small group mentality which has taken control of the population.

It all just seems so wrong to me deep down in my being. I can't mentally conceptualize how groups of human beings can conspire together to perpetrate evil/immoral things against each other.

The only way I can understand it is if the people who make war really believe that these 'enemies' are a real and immediate threat to their very lives. I don't mean livelyhood, but their very lives and their families' lives. The fight or flight sympathetic nervous system being activated by these external threats to their life and limb, and they see no possible option but to kill in order so that they will survive.

If the threat is that grave and severe, it is difficult to fault them for their actions, however, I don't quite see the threat as being that severe or acute or grave. Am I sheltered from the reality of the evil out there, and the grave and imminent danger from the 'enemy?' Should I be grateful that the government protects me in this very way, because if they didn't continue to remain this vigilant and merciless to 'enemies', then I and/or my family could quite possibly be dead or held captive being tortured continually in some dark vile dungeon?

If the threat out there is that severe, then please show me the real evidence of this evil. Certainly, indisputable evidence can be presented without threating the 'national security.' Certainly those of you in leadership positions needed evidence before making your decision to intervene, certainly you understand the threats, certainly you are rational and reasonable people. Share this information with us too, if it is as you say it is, then I'm sure we would agree, we are reasonable people too.

Show the evidence, please. You claim to have it, so lets see it, I will understand your actions if what you say is true. (That is unless you say you are a Christian and a strict follower of Jesus and his Good News, then nothing you say or do will justify these actions no matter how real the threat.)

At the bottom of all of this is a massive lie, and it is sitting under so many other lies that it can't even been seen anymore.

As a Christian, I sincerely believe that war is not the answer, but I'm also a sinner, so I can't cast the first stone, besides, as a Christian, throwing stones at people is sorta against my religion anyhow.

The human race is better than this, aren't we?

P.S. What's up with the background music in the OP video? If you listen to it keenly, you can clearly tell it is designed to stir up your emotions in a way to reinforce a certain perception. This is often done in propaganda and at your friendly neighborhood movie theater. Btw, I also miss Drive In theaters...sigh

reply to post by AutomaticSlim

I like your post, but I believe the thinking you expressed in your post is also a clue, why we have so much evil in the world.

Most people have empathy. They just want to live happy lives and believe in the golden rule: “One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself.” Of cause no one accomplishes this 100%, but most people try.

But among us there are also sociopaths and psychopaths without conscience. People who feel no empathy towards their fellow men. People who are only interested in their own advantages. Both sociopaths and psychopaths are often also accomplished liars and charismatic leaders. They manipulate the rest of us and influence our thoughts.

Here are a few examples.

The West Point Psychology Professor and Army Ranger Dave Grossman wrote about how training of the military is designed to change the core values of the trained soldiers.

During World War II, US Army Brig. Gen. S. L. A. Marshall had a team of researchers study what soldiers did in battle. For the first time in history, they asked individual soldiers what they did in battle. They discovered that only 15 to 20 percent of the individual riflemen could bring themselves to fire at an exposed enemy soldier.

That is the reality of the battlefield. Only a small percentage of soldiers are able and willing to participate. Men are willing to die, they are willing to sacrifice themselves for their nation; but they are not willing to kill. It is a phenomenal insight into human nature; but when the military became aware of that, they systematically went about the process of trying to fix this "problem."

From the military perspective, a 15 percent firing rate among riflemen is like a 15 percent literacy rate among librarians. And fix it the military did. By the Korean War, around 55 percent of the soldiers were willing to fire to kill. And by Vietnam, the rate rose to over 90 percent.

Trained to Kill by Dave Grossman

Conversation between Nixon and Kissinger

The mindset of the Neocons can be observed in nearly all their policy papers. Here is just one quote, but many thoughts expressed by these pundits are equally repugnant.

"...advanced forms of biological warfare that can target specific genotypes may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a politically useful tool."

home.earthlink.net...

Sociopaths and Psychopaths understand human nature. They manipulate weaknesses. Their lies can make us afraid or make us angry. They can drive us to do things, which we normally wouldn't do. They can even use our compassion against us. I think you are wrong when you apply the following mindset on psychopaths:

As a Christian, I sincerely believe that war is not the answer, but I'm also a sinner, so I can't cast the first stone, besides, as a Christian, throwing stones at people is sorta against my religion anyhow. -AutomaticSlim

I think it is essential to confront them, whenever it is possible. It is important to expose their lies and highlight the vileness of their thoughts and deeds. Men, women and children are maimed, murdered and tortured because most people don't confront authority or are too considerate and concerned to speak up against injustice and evil, because they are afraid such outspokenness might cause indignation. What is a hurt feeling compared to destroyed lives?

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?
- Mahatma Gandhi

reply to post by Drunkenshrew


Thank you for your post Drunkenshrew. The strange irony about it was that I had included a sentence in my post as follows: Crazy people do Crazy things, thats why we call them Crazy.
I removed it before I submitted the post because I just couldn't get myself to believe that these people could actually be pathologically mentally disturbed individuals, and they are in charge no less!

I guess you are keen enough to read between the lines and find the clue which I didn't know was even there...best regards mate

Kind of late to post here, but oh well.
This is extremely upsetting to me. The entire documentary was compelling enough and the evidence was obvious. Even the look in Qaddafi's eyes said it all to me. At the end approx 10 mins left of the doc. was the part that hurt my heart the most. The facts of Libya's country....
Free water and power, extremely cheap gasoline, $50,000 government grant to purchase a home when you get married. Housing is a human right to the Libyans.
Even just the fact that he freely rides the streets with all of his people so close to him, smiling, cheering...
It looks almost too good to be true.
Our President has to be protected by bodyguards, secret service, drones of police and militia men. Shouldn't we adore him enough to be ensured that none of us would hurt him?

And to think they portrayed him as some dictator!
That man loved his people, and they clearly loved him.
What gives our government (United States) the right to put our nose into everyone one in the world's business and pretend we understand when we just truly don't? We can't play World Police forever and expect no one to retaliate against us...
This is very heart-wrenching...

Thanks all for reviewing this video.

It's very important that we excersize our rights one day we may wake up unable to protest, or affect the outcome of our presidential elections.

Thanks so much for linking the video in the OP.

Didn't really think I'd see anything here but more war talk and didn't really want to even check the forum, but am so glad I did and spent an hour to watch this. I feel sick, shocked and ashamed, and not sure how to even process it at the moment to be honest.

Just feel so sorry for all those people in Libya, and to see what they'd spent so long to build taken away by our countries so-called governments. And I didn't even know anything like this until I decided to watch it.

And I was confused at what people were talking about in the thread about impeaching Obama, and why Alex Jones was going so mad all yesterday.....

Hoping that this starts getting around properly to as many people out there that still have no idea. I can't just sit here and keep quiet after seeing that, and I won't.

Sorry if that last post seems insane, I'd not slept properly in 48 hours, so if you add that to the shock you get when seeing this video even at a normal time you might be able to imagine the state I was in.

Still badly shocked by this video though.

The elite will burn. No, not in hell, but right here on Earth.

Pre-invasion Libya is a model of society. We could all learn from it.

No man/woman/child should be charged for a life giving source that is here naturally on earth, water. Every Libyan was sheltered, again just goes to show how well this man looked after his own people.

If only western leaders followed suit the world would be a much nicer place to live.

reply to post by Drunkenshrew


Thanks for the link with being Trained to Kill.
I found it very informative and explains a lot actually in our society.

We have people screaming personal responsibility on one hand, while you have Psychopaths that are running the country, that are the ones most responsible for where our society is today, due in part to the conditioning and programs they have in place to brainwash us.

If I mix ammonia and chlorine together which then explodes, killing people close by in the process, is the chlorine or ammonia at fault?

Neither, the chlorine and ammonia are reacting exactly as they are designed to by mother nature.
People can be trained to react without thinking what they are doing and how it affects others via brainwashing as the article implied.''

www.professorenforum.de...

Reply to post by kevpa

Listen to what you are saying. The ONLY difference between a dictator and a democratic government is One man making the rules and a room full of men making the rules. In a dictatorship you KNOW who to get rid of when he fails the people. That's why no one will do anything about the USA, THEY DO NOT KNOW WHO TO GO AFTER. Is there anyone in the country who can name every man and woman that make our laws, that RULE us? Could any of you even pick their face out of a crowd? Chaos runs the country. That's what democracy does, creates chaos and no one can do a damn thing, having one to hold accountable is much better than a city full.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by DoNotForgetMe


Out of Chaos, Order.

Scare enough people, and they will follow you if you promise to reward their loyalty. Especially if they have nobody to turn to for protection, from them the Aggressor, or any one else you can make them fear.

Mafia's and gangs make good money on protection, at least in the godfather movies.

reply to post by matthewgraybeal

Hello.

firstly I would like to think the op for this thread, I first saw your thread a few weeks back but i didn't watch the video, i read the comments and other peoples replies and i just hoped that none of it could be true. for some reason i didn't watch the youtube documentary until saturday just gone, and watching this confirmed my worst nightmares (well some of them anyway as i seem to discover a new nightmare every day) it took me over a day to get my head around it, and then today at work i finally realised the complete horror of it and whilst i'm sat there working (i've also recently discovered that i work for a company that belongs to fmr fidelity corp) i realise that the tax i'm paying from my wage is what is funding these wars, therefore I AM responsible for funding the war that happened in Libya........ what does this make me? i just don't know what to do, i have to work so i can keep my home and eat, but by doing so i'm contributing to all the evil # thats happening, and i'm at my wits end and i can't see a way out of this rat race that we've all been manipulated into.... i suppose this is how all slaves feel!

On 20th october last year me and my husband both ''woke up'' (i don't like using this term as some people get offended by it) to the truth including the truth about the people that really run this world and about God. This was also the day Gaddafi was killed.

Was Gaddafi a special man? i think he may have been and we were all fooled into thinking he was evil and should be killed, we were all seriously manipulated, and unfortunately this sort of tragedy will carry on happening till the end of time as the media never report on the truth of situations like this to us and even when we try to warn other people they just think we are paranoid,

i really wish it was just paranoia, i really do.....

reply to post by Minnie1985


If you are an American, become active politically. I just learned yesterday how to beat them at their own game. Ignore the media, and get on a county seat for your party, dissasemble the status-quo, and become the political process yourself. The republican party right now is being replaced with new leadership state by state with folks with anti-war values, and sound money. If it scares you what certain parties are doing, become the party and replace the local leaders. It's our right!

reply to post by matthewgraybeal

hi, thank your for your quick reply and sound advice, i never thought of joining my local council, but it's something i will look into, what better way to get a message across than from the inside. i'm british by the way,

i can't thank you enough, i've tried telling a few family members about the wrong doings of this world but my brother just thinks i'm losing it, but i posted your link on facebook yesterday and he watched it and liked it, i don't think he's fully got his head round it yet as when i asked him he said ''it was very interesting'' so i think he's still dwelling on what he actually saw, and for this i am grateful to you for bringing it to my attention and for hopefully making my brother wake up to the truth. i knew there was something wrong with the whole situation when gaddafi was killed, only at the time i didn't know what was so wrong, but now i do thanks to you