130 year old Spear found in the body of a Whale...

reply to post by Talltexxxan


The type of harpoon which was found in this whale's neck was obsoleted by a less-bulky harpoon gun in 1880, according to the article, which means that the harpoon is at least 130-years old.

I'm not in the whaling industry, but I know that most people who are out to make money in the most efficient way possible will use the latest tools and technology affordable. It is reasonable to assume that the whale was hit with this harpoon approximately 130 years ago. Professional whalers would not continue to use bulky and outdated equipment for more than a year or two after it became obsolete.

To suggest that someone might have gone out 30 years ago with a heavy antique harpoon gun and shot this whale is less reasonable than to assume that these whales live up to and over 130 years. I feel that it kind of discredits your argument.

If you had the pleasure to watch Bruce Parry's Arctic Series you'll have seen that the people who took this Bowhead are indiginous people of the area and are on a very strict quota, 3 catches a season i believe and all the meat is distributed among all the tribesfolk. Their technology isnt exactly state of the art tbh, open boats and hand harpoons. High tec for them is a device that looks like a modified M79 grenade launcher and is so dangerous that the only person who had one in that camp was missing a hand from a missfire of the device...

The spearhead that was found was never used by those people in their hunting trips, they all appear to be traditionalists in their techniques for whaling.

I dont understand why it is so impossible to believe that another mammal could live longer than a human...

I'm just really sad that another endangered whale has died... notwithstanding culture and need to live, make a living...but still sad

Bowhead whales have been known to carry their children on their back giving them a piggyback rides.

These gentle giants of the oceans are also extremely intelligent, it has been estimated that the average Beluga whale has an IQ of 155. Furthermore neuroscientist Professor Patrick Hof at the Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York and Dr. Estel van der Gucht of the New York Consortium in Evolutionary Primatology have discovered that the brain of whales contain a special cell that is thought to make humans loving and caring. The neurones known as spindle cells due to their long spindly shape allow humans to experience self-conscioussness and to interact socially. Previously it was thought that these spindle brain cells that allow us to feel empathy were only found in humans and greater apes. However the research conducted by Professor Hof has found these same cells in whales and they are also located in the same brain region as humans suggesting not only are they extremely intelligent but they are also able to experience empathy and love.

A UK scientist says some hunted whales live for more than an hour after being harpooned.
He found that the harpoons themselves and the rifles used to finish off wounded whales were often ineffective.
A bloody business: Some experts believe whaling can never be humane
Dr Kestin told BBC News Online: "We do manage to kill some wild animals, like deer and impala, with great efficiency. You can do it humanely if you have the right equipment.

"But I can't currently visualise an acceptably humane way of killing whales."

news.bbc.co.uk...

As it is very difficult to gauge whether a whale is dead or not due to the fact that they can store a vast amounts of oxygen in their internal organs, sometimes the whale is winched on to the factory boat still alive.
Although there are no statistics it has been known that some whales are still alive or maybe are just paralyzed but are still capable of feeling pain as they are sliced opened, butchered and processed. So much blood pours out from these oceanic giants that the factory ship deck will be submerged in 6 to 8 cm of blood.
Worse still 60% of all females caught are pregnant, usually the baby fetus will die shortly after the mother or else it will be brutally killed. All of the mentioned methods of capturing and killing run counter to the humane slaughter and animal welfare standards as laid down by the World Organization for Animal Health (OIE) which is an intergovernmental organization responsible for improving animal health.
A small number of countries and people take part in what is known as Aboriginal Subsistence Whaling (ASW).
However many animal welfare groups have shown that aboriginal killing methods are extremely crude and thus cause the animals extended suffering as they take longer to die.

Originally posted by Akragon a spear found in the body of a whale that was 130 years old.

welll ACTUALLY.....how do they know it wasn't some whaling aficionado historian buff that liked to whale hunt old school with 130 yr old antique harpoons?

OR maybe the harpoon had already been say... 80 yrs old when someone used it on the whale....

just because the harpoon was 130 yrs doesn't mean that the harpoon was made and then immediately used on the mammal... seeeems a bit misleading to assume the animal is as old as the harpoon found in it.

maybee I'm missing something

That's a pretty cool story, i had no idea they lived so long. It's to bad there's only 8-12 thousand left in the world. They're a pretty majestic creature, let's hope extinction isn't they're destiny.

thats insane,if u think about the math involved with the probability of those chain of event unfolding the way it did, crazy.

This is one of the most fascinating stories I've seen posted on here. 200 years is quite a lifetime. If only whales had hands with fingers. Maybe they would learn to use them and would almost be as intelligent as humans.

Originally posted by lokdog
That's a pretty cool story, i had no idea they lived so long. It's to bad there's only 8-12 thousand left in the world. They're a pretty majestic creature, let's hope extinction isn't they're destiny.

Not if the japanese whaling fleet can help it. There will be 0 in no time.

Originally posted by Talltexxxan

But whos to say someone 30 years ago used a 100 year old spear to try and get him some whale? Just because the tool is a 100 y/o doesnt mean that the event happened 100 years ago. I have some automotive tools at my house that have been passed down some over 40 years old. And lets say I used said tool to work on a 2012 Camaro and then lost the tool somewhere in the framework of the vehicle. then 5 years down the road someone finds the tool and dates it back to 1973, does that mean that the 2012 Camaro infront of him is actually a time machine? NO it means I used an old tool on a new car.

Like I said before, Im not disputing that the whale could very well be 100+ years old. Im just sayin that just because a 100+ y/o tool was found does not mean it happened 100+ years ago

So the biologist claim that this discovery helps them to prove that these whales are the longest living animals absolutly holds no water. No if we could tell how old the wound itself is, then THAT would validate their claim. The tools age holds no relevance on how old the incident is.

edit on 23-2-2012 by Talltexxxan because: (no reason given)

I'm not disputing that some one 30 years ago could have used a 100 year old spear on some sad attempt at hunting a whale, but I think it would be fairly unlikely. As I said above:

It is far more likely the spear has been in the whales neck for 130 years than someone specially made a spear head similar to ones made 130 years ago and then speared a whale on the off chance biologists would find it and then claim the whale is 200+ years old.

You have to consider what would be the most likely scenario. I highly doubt that the biologist would take this as absolute proof that these creatures live for 200+ years, and the thing is until we track one of these creatures from birth to death of old age we will never have absolute proof. It is simply that biologists based on prior observations believe these creatures have the ability to live for 200+ years, and this 130 year old spear simply adds more weight to those observations.

I hesitated to reply to this thread, but something compelled me to do so. What really brings the dreary cloud of sadness about this whole situation to me is it actually gives credence to legal Japanese "scientific" whalers. I mean this in-so-far-as that this discovery will be hailed as a historical discovery and this will lead to more "scientific" hunting of these beautiful animals from an archaeological standpoint.

I always thought whales were freaking awesome.

A peaceful creature that lives a long time...who would've thought?

I remember reading a story, and considering Fisherman like to over-exagerate their stories i don't know how true it may be, but the story was that in a New South Wales coastal fishing town on the far South Coast well over 100 years ago, the Fisherman reported on many occasions that when a Fisherman fell over-board, the killer whales would basically swim around the Fisherman guarding him from sharks in shark infested waters until he was able to swim back to the boat and get back on board to safety. This was apparently so common that there was a pact between the fishing community to NEVER attack a killer whale for any reason. But apparently one day a drunken sailor broke this pact by killing a baby killer whale for no apparent logical reason other than killing it. This outraged the fishing community at the time and he was dealt with accordingly according to the story.
But after that incident, any Fisherman that fell overboard, was from that moment onwards attacked by the killer whales as if a truce had been broken.
I cannot confirm this story, but i just thought i'd share it with you all and would love to hear from anyone else that may of heard of simlilar stories !

Originally posted by Akragon
This is a disgusting practice, and should be outlawed, but that isn't the point of this thread... I was just watching a documentary on Whales and they mentioned a spear found in the body of a whale that was 130 years old.

So i decided to do a little digging on the net and the artical came up almost right away... i thought this was very interesting... this whale survived a whaling attack over 100 years ago, even a bomb that was attached to the spear... and preserved a piece of history in the process... To my supprize Biologists believe Bowhead whales can live up to 200 years, making them the single oldest living mamal on the planet!

A giant bowhead whale caught off the coast of Alaska had a harpoon point embedded in its neck that showed it survived a similar hunt ? more than a century ago.
Biologists claim the find helps prove the bowhead is the oldest living mammal on earth.
They say the 13-centimetre arrow-shaped fragment dates back to around 1880, meaning the 50-ton whale had been coasting around the freezing arctic waters since Victorian times.

Although this is older news i still wanted to post it...

Pictures of the spear

Truely incredible!

edit on 22-2-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

Hi,

Well deserved S&F! Poor bloody thing! The scientists know it lives to an unheard of old age and the b*stards STILL kill it! However, IT MAY BE THE STRAW THAT BREAKS THE CAMELS BACK and the people of the world see sense and BAN WHALING & DOLPHIN-ING.

There was GREAT NEWS tonight in that they are talking about making the WHALES/DOLPHINS "HONORARY HUMANS" - they are after-all SENTIENT BEINGS - as are ALL ANIMALS!

I saw the shows on PBS last night on whales and dolphins. They were very interesting. I see that most whales appear to be gentle animals with the exception of a few types. I grew up watching flipper and loved the show.

The whales and dolphins have always impressed me. I saw them swimming on side a ferry coming from Juneau to Prince Rupert back in 75. I also knew a guy who raised sea lions and some other type of seals and he put on shows in the summer. He had trained Sea Lions for Disney before coming to the U.P. They were also very intelligent. I like watching the peaceful interactions of these creatures with humans.

I understand why Men of the past had to hunt these great mammals of the Oceans in order to survive. However, There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for Man to hunt these, or anyother for that matter Whales any longer. I am not against some Natives practicing their cultural traditions and even using them to continue to survive. Meaning, they use the entire body of the whale like they have for centuries up in the Alaskan Arctic. This, will not effect the population of these wonderful creations of this H20 planet.

Other than Native tradition, This really needs to stop immediately! It's an international crime that should be ruthlessly enforced. Too bad we have way too many greedy, selfish cowards here on Earth today than we have selfless defenders of the defenseless. What a shame, and what a sad truth and disgrace to us all as one.

The Oils that the Japanese, Chinese and others desire from these animals in modern times are easily replaced by other land based beast oils. Farming these animals, or PRODUCTS for that matter is a much wiser solution for the better good of Earth's species. We actually don't need any animal products other than for food any longer with the technology that we humans have today. Yuh know, It reminds me about how we are wasting the forests of this planet, when we have fabricated wood, Iron and synthetic plastics that easily can replace them all without us destroying eco systems and endangered wildlife.

So is it not a good question for us all to ponder? Why would we not do this and protect planet Earth? Why, Just tell me why not? I already know, it's because of profit (money). For a few empty souls who will eventually pass on their wealth to a few more empty souls. Until one day, There will be no more forests, Oceans, Rivers or The beautiful Wildlife that calls them all their home. And all for what? A few bottomfeeders family blood line living it up for a few centuries? What a shame. What an absolute 100% shame.

To get back to the subject of this great thread though, There is absolutely really no good reason whatsoever to allow anyone, I mean anyone, to rape and kill these great creatures of the Sea with some kind of fabricated money making enterprise. In fact, these criminals who are raping this Planet should be hunted down and delt with in order to defend Mother Earth, who can barely defend herself any longer. We have no choice but to defend life itself. ~SheopleNation

reply to post by rickymouse


Man, Loved Flipper! Can't find the old shows though. They are lost somewhere with the Bigfoot & Wild boy series tapes down inside some 1970's Hollywood Bunker.

What about "BEN"? I believe was filmed in the same area by the same producers? Anyway, Loved Both shows and if you find out anything about them please let me know my friend. I love and miss the 70's so much. I guess everyone can't forget their youth. ~SheopleNation

reply to post by Akragon


The good news is that the idiotic owner of that spear is already dead.

wow thats extremely upsetting
made its escape only to fall prey to the same beast 130 years later
seems like based on these animals natural life span most of them will be hunted and killed long before they die of natural causes
all because "dur hur is wha ma daddy did!"

that said theres no telling how old this whale is but it was getting up there in age and i am grateful those #s caught this one rather than one that probably still has breeding left to do
not that that was anything but chance

Originally posted by 1littlewolf

:

It is far more likely the spear has been in the whales neck for 130 years than someone specially made a spear head similar to ones made 130 years ago and then speared a whale on the off chance biologists would find it and then claim the whale is 200+ years old.

You have to consider what would be the most likely scenario.

have you fully analyzed whaler and Inuit cultures and asserted that antique harpoons or spearheads are not used as decoration around the ships and might be used as a last resort if all other harpoons no board were spent?

you've found that that scenario does NOT exist at ALL or if it did.. then it would be LESS likely of happening than the 130 yr old spearhead staying in an 130+ yr old whale...

I do not agree with your logic there..

also even if it's 130+ yrs old.. no surprised... tortoises are 175+ yrs old...
http:// www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/8679625/Worlds-oldest-living-animal-is-178-year-old-tortoise-called-Jonathan.html

reply to post by prevenge


you might have an argument if the inuit regularly took antique spears with them on hunting expeditions however i find it unlikely that one would even be available as a last resort as there is no reason to bring it with (very limited room on these ships you bring ONLY whats absolutely necessary)
unless youre claiming they are SO desperately out of resources for making these harpoons they would use their ancestral relics in a hunt knowing full well its how likely it is to be lost

the inuit are known to be very practical so the assertion that it was a decoration is a little hard to swallow

you had a good point i just think youre trying too hard for it to make sense now when it clearly doesnt
you seem like a reasonable guy but you are being overly stubborn

i will admit its a possibility however it seems very unlikely

edit:also it came from a bomb lance.... so theres that

"Fired from a heavy shoulder gun, the harpoon was attached to a small metal cylinder filled with explosives and fitted with a time fuse so it would explode seconds after it was shot into the whale.

Experts have pinned down the weapons manufacture to a New England factory in about 1880 and say it was rendered obsolete by a less bulky darting gun a few years later."

"Six similar harpoon points have been found in the whales since 2001, all suggesting they live much longer than previously thought."

so no youre wrong

"MOBY DICK" LOL.

maybe whales are a LOT older that 200?
would that stop people killing them? no!

what suprises me is that whales dont hate or fear humans???
why dont they Kill divers? They Save humans !

Old tails uset to say whales attackt the whaling boats.
in the old days they use small boats too.
they have a museum in hull. sad please.

so they stopt attacking people?
are they buddhists?