Before Adam and Eve there was...

In particular, the story of Creation, Adam and then Eve, The Garden, Lilith, The Land of Nod, etc.etc.etc...should be (but have not) been viewed as, compressed, conglomerated, precis'd accounts...which have further been...reinterpreted, moulded and rewritten and subsequently reinterpreted...

As an historical document...it obviously does not make sense (for reasons everyone knows)...yet, if the timelines are allowed to be stretched...the dogma of how and when things happened relented...the fundamentalism of who is responsible/the causation of the whole kit and caboodle is loosened (but remains true to the key points)...other variations occur.

Within the gamut of these other variations comes some that make sense (in one way - but not another), and some that make sense in other ways (but not others).

The simple and most mysterious items from these stories is...Lilith, and The Land of Nod.
Obviously there is a time compression issue in these cobbled accounts.

Akushla

reply to post by akushla99


There does seem to be a lot of missing time between some of the verses of the bible. I would agree with your analysis.

Originally posted by Klassified
reply to post by akushla99

 

There does seem to be a lot of missing time between some of the verses of the bible. I would agree with your analysis.

Cheers
...and the aforementioned, 'missing time', 'rearranged time', is akin to forensically determinining the events which have taken place at an event similar to...for instance...JFK assassination or 911.
...some things do make sense, and others don't...and the various 'camps' rally themselves around the agreed interpretations to form dogmatised factions which will not bend thier interpretations..

Akushla

reply to post by Klassified


OP the bible is constantly misread by most everyone, inGenesis 1:26 God says " let US create man in OUR image and OUR likeness. That was the sixth day when all the races were created .


Now you must understand that a day to God is as a thousand years to man , do six thousand years have passed to that point. God rested for a day or to us another thousand years. Adam and Eve were created on the eigth day or the ninth century.

So the sixth day creations replenished the earth for at least two thousand years before Adam and Eve were created so that all living would come through them. This simply means that Jesus would ome through their offspring and all living would be saved through Jesus spiritually.

This is why we see writings older than the bible from the sixth day peoples, Satan. Had already corrupted the sixth day peoples by teaching them false religions to offset Gods plan, but that is another story. Peace.

hey OP. i took a literature course a couple of years ago in which we studied many different interpretations of the Eden Creation myth. i have uploaded a pdf of one of the articles which we studied.

enjoy!

PHILIP ALMOND; Adam, Pre-Adamites, and Extra-Terrestrial Beings

reply to post by tgidkp


Thanks. I'll be checking that out along with some other awesome posts in this thread.

reply to post by Klassified


Philip Almond

Very good post and downloaded your pdf for a good read. You should consider writing - You have talent--

Well first off...never trust anything written by a group of men that are forbidden to have sex....

the Garden of Eden...

The Garden of Eden is a metaphor...it is a Metaphor for our transition from a hunter-gatherer society to an agrarian society of sewing and reaping....animal husbandry and tending to the farms.

Before the "garden of Eden"...aka...before we started growing our own food and managing sustainable animal harvests...we wandered around....nomads is the word here....

Everything that is described is a metaphor for the reality....even down to the "boogie man" Nephalim....if you have ever read direct translations...you will come to understand the Greek scholoars that first penned down the hebrew to greek translations...had no words for what Nephalim actually means...the best modern translation is...'without a soul".

It is theorized and seemingly well done...that what the "nephalim" is referring to is an ancient memory of interactions between the homo sapiens and the diening race of homo neanderthalensis...the Neanderthals...contrary to some poorly written history....our species co-existed for several thousand years...

It become relevant when you consider that labeling something "without a soul" made it ok to hunt it, kill it, enslave it....and eventually exterminate it...

It's all out there in the realms of real science...it's not so hard to believe and yes...it is that ugly word phrase....logical and intellectual.

There was never giants...that is a misinterpretation...there wasn't flying demons and angels...a myth....there was just the up and rising power species versus the dieing one...and we got to write the story...guess who looks bad...

Originally posted by Klassified

Originally posted by Starwise
www.paganlibrary.com...

Read! Its all about the "Other People"

Thanks for stopping by Starwise. I posted this link on the first page with your name attached since you are the one who originally told me about it. I have read this several times actually. And have done some searches from its contents. I started this thread to hopefully glean other theories and info, as well as pick some ATS brains.

If you think of, or run across anything else related, please share.

LOL!! I was kinda in a rush yesterday and didnt get to read through the whole thread! I just love being able to ask christians that I know if they knew who the other people were, and not one of them can answer me. And I live in the bible belt!!

Also, I know Z. Sitchens work is questionable, but I really enjoyed his book Genesis Revisited....Yes it is about aliens and DNA....It had pretty good arguments regarding genetic engineering I remember. Of course I read that book about 14 years ago and if I were to re-read it I may be more skeptical.

reply to post by Damrod


Excellent post from a whole other perspective. I love it. The longer I'm here, the more I appreciate the diversity of thought and opinion at ATS.

Everything that is described is a metaphor for the reality....even down to the "boogie man" Nephalim....if you have ever read direct translations...you will come to understand the Greek scholoars that first penned down the hebrew to greek translations...had no words for what Nephalim actually means...the best modern translation is...'without a soul".

This sticks out to me somewhat because of reading that some Jewish sages go a little further than saying the pre-adamic species was different. They say they were soulless. But yes, I have studied many of the "original meanings" of Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic words. It most certainly can have an impact on how one perceives certain biblical passages.

Originally posted by Starwise

Originally posted by Klassified

Originally posted by Starwise
www.paganlibrary.com...

Read! Its all about the "Other People"

Thanks for stopping by Starwise. I posted this link on the first page with your name attached since you are the one who originally told me about it. I have read this several times actually. And have done some searches from its contents. I started this thread to hopefully glean other theories and info, as well as pick some ATS brains.

If you think of, or run across anything else related, please share.

LOL!! I was kinda in a rush yesterday and didnt get to read through the whole thread! I just love being able to ask christians that I know if they knew who the other people were, and not one of them can answer me. And I live in the bible belt!!

Also, I know Z. Sitchens work is questionable, but I really enjoyed his book Genesis Revisited....Yes it is about aliens and DNA....It had pretty good arguments regarding genetic engineering I remember. Of course I read that book about 14 years ago and if I were to re-read it I may be more skeptical.

edit on 25-2-2012 by Starwise because: (no reason given)

Interesting indeed.
A version of a creation myth that has logic and critical thinking applied to it. I do not agree with it, or any creation by a deity/deities myth actually. However I applaud it for its consistency.

I learnt another viewpoint. This I will always thank people for. So a thank you to you both.

TextSo where did the wife come from? Some say Cain married his sister, but it seems to me that after Cain left for the Land of Nod, there were already many people there, in fact, a whole civilization. I call these "The Other People." Those who were not made from Dust, but were created by something other than the biblical God. "Let Us Create Man" comes to mind here.

reply to post by autowrench


That baffles me too. I'm quite old & going on ninety and can't remember everything as I should but bear with me. I think all of us old geezers are about the same. I'm not Jewish but some years ago I sat under a rabbi to find out more of what he believed than anything else. The rabbi taught me a story about Cain and Able which is not in the Hebrew bible. I'm paraphrasing this so hope he forgives me if he is reading this. The story goes like this. The Adam's family lived east of Gan Eden after they lost the right to live in the garden. Some say that they were cave dwellers because they did not hunt or spill any blood at this time. The bible says that the clothes they wore were fashioned by God.

Cain was born with a twin sister and Able was born with a twin sister and as they approached the age of procreation Cain wanted to procreate with his twin sister. Adam objected to this and wanted Cain to mate with Able's twin sister and Able to mate with Cain's twin sister. Able also agreed with Adam, thus the entire family was at odds with one another over this. Adam decided to let God settle the matter. Both boys were to bring an offering to the alter of God and the offer that God would consume would be the wish of that boy. As it turned out, God choose Able's offering over that of Cain.

This led to the murder of Able by Cain. Cain did not realize what murder actually was because death was not realized at this time. So in effect there was not a law against spilling the blood of creation. That is why Cain was not punished but was protected from others spilling his blood. The bible says that a mark was put upon Cain to protect him. Not punish him. There is an evil Yeezer in all creation and this was in the form of anger and jealousy with Cain. Now remember I said Cain was protected from others spilling his blood. Who were these "others?" It appears that it would not have been mom or pop or the sisters. So who could it have been?

Gen 4:15 And the LORD said unto him: 'Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold.' And the LORD set a sign for Cain, lest any finding him should smite him.
Gen 4:16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
Gen 4:17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bore Enoch; and he builded a city, and called the name of the city after the name of his son Enoch.

According to the Hebrew bible the family was already living east of Gan Eden after being expelled from Gan Eden. It is inferred that there were no other children at this time and that Cain was expelled to a land called Nod which was also east of the Gan Eden where he settled and had a family. I understand that his mate could have been Able's sister and here is the rest of the story. Time marches on and on and on. Cain settled far apart from mom & dad and had children and grand children and great grandchildren. Meanwhile Adam & Eve had another son called Seth. Seth was in effect a replacement of Able as he grew up his brother had lots of clan members in a area which was named Nod and a city that he named Enoch.

So in effect it was not just that Cain was sent to a place already known as Nod but that it developed into a place called Nod and a city named after his son. This could have taken many years. According to the Jewish Time Line Encyclopedia Cain (Kayin) slew his brother in 3720 bce at the age of 41 and was himself slain in 2105 bce. This would have shown him to have lived into the year of the flood of Noah which was in 2105 bce. In other words Cain lived about 1656 years. I did a second research on that some years ago because I thought it might have been a mistake but that is what the Jewish historians do claim.

So maybe that can help you understand just who these "other people" are. If Cain did live over 1600 years then that could explain this land called Nod and the other people. I can't really understand the Creator in many ways by letting a killer live over 1600 and his pop living only 900 years but that's just me. Anyways folks, hope that this helps with the other people in Nod.

Originally posted by reficul
reply to post by icepack

 

lilith was adam's first wife,and god kicked her out of the garden for not obeying adam.
later in jewish mythology,she was a demon who was responsible for killing a child during child birth.

Would you mind showing me where Lilith appears in the bible?

Originally posted by icepack

i heard about a woman named lilith.

Please tell me where you heard about this woman named lilith.

Originally posted by kimish
Maybe these people before Adam and Eve and Lilith were the Nephilim. Hence, G-d getting angry at the nephilim for procreating with the daughters of man.

I think that the first two were Adam and Lilith, made from the earth. When Lilith and Adam did not get along, Adam was lonely so G-d took a rib from Adam and made Eve.

The only mention of another woman mentioned in the bible before eve is here.

So where are you getting lilith from?

Genisis 1:27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

www.biblegateway.com...

reply to post by Klassified


right here.
im in and with you.

original translations for the new testament says in john 3.16:
god loved the world, in this way.......
or god loved his people in this way.




the concept also removes the idea of free will out of the bible.
not just old or new testament, the talmud as well, where non-jews are refered to as goy or goyim, as in cattle.
cattle that holds no rights or ownership.
cattle that they are supposed to decieve.
cattle who they can have sex with with out permission from anyone.
wait.
they cant eat pork, but they can hump cattle?

Originally posted by kimish
Maybe these people before Adam and Eve and Lilith were the Nephilim. Hence, G-d getting angry at the nephilim for procreating with the daughters of man.

I think that the first two were Adam and Lilith, made from the earth. When Lilith and Adam did not get along, Adam was lonely so G-d took a rib from Adam and made Eve.

Let's also talk about the Nephilim

The KJV translation only says 'giants', where as the NIV translation says "Nephilim"

Ref:

(KJV) bibleresources.bible.com...

(NIV) Genesis 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

Before Adam and Eve there was... DINOSAURS for one thing.

Funny how "god" forgot that one.

Originally posted by ImpartialObserver

Originally posted by icepack

i heard about a woman named lilith.

Please tell me where you heard about this woman named lilith.

i think it was documentary, like from bbc or history channel. adam and lilith got "divorced" and she had a relationship to demons later on.

Originally posted by icepack

Originally posted by ImpartialObserver

Originally posted by icepack

i heard about a woman named lilith.

Please tell me where you heard about this woman named lilith.

i think it was documentary, like from bbc or history channel. adam and lilith got "divorced" and she had a relationship to demons later on.

How do you know lilith wasn't involved in a relationship with demons prior to divorcing Adam?