Extremist Orthodox Jews have been targetting Christians (Jerusalem Post Article) "Price Tag"!

Writing On The Wall: Israel and Its Christians.

Please refer to this very well written and informative article in The Jerusalem Post.

It describes in great detail the aggressive intolerance of Christians in Israel. After reading this article I shall never go to Israel again until they treat their minorities better!

What bullies! I have lost all respect for Orthodox Judaism. In my honest opinion they are no better than the extremist Muslims.

I think we should all not get involved in the silly arguements and leaved them to destroy eachother as they surely will. Let them stone eachother. If they act like this these peoples have no place in our civilized world and they are dragging down our civility.

Absolutely disgusted after reading this article.

Israel is literally the most anti-christian state on the planet.
Ironically, they also recieve the most "love" and support from christians... (because of supposed religious reasons) Everything the jews say or do against Jesus is excused with some "prophecy" that the Jews will suddenly start accepting Jesus in the future.

However, everybody else from other religions, (even other Christian denominations) who revere Jesus.... are labelled by Christians as "wrong" (at the mildest) or "doomed", "satanic" or "of the devil" etc.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Israel is literally the most anti-christian state on the planet.

Ha? Good thing you are objective. You know, i totally agree that there are anti-Christian Jewish Israelis. There are people who spit, there are people who write offensive things on churches but come on!
A) It happens rarely.
B) There are countries where conversion to Christianity is punishable by law, there are countries where whole Christian villages are wiped out and there are countries where churches are attacked and burned.
So are you sure you conisdered things before writing this post or it is just the emotions overloading common sence?
For your info ,last week i "enjoyed" sharing a tram with Christian preacher who openly stated that Jews are sons of Satan. In Israel, Jersualem in tram full of Jews whom he tried to convert with those things.
And except feint threats to call the police (because any preaching in the open is forbidden in Israel) no son of Satan in the most anti-Christian state in the universe (why stop on planet) did anything hostile to that crazy dude who certainly is the Christian anlogue of tag mehir guys.
You can trust my story or not but millions of Christian tourists visiting Israel vs number of cases of hositlity you can count of fingers of one hand kind of say the whole story.
See, hating idiots are everywhere. How many hating idiots per normal people is what describes the situation.

They're just as bad extremist muslim, "in your opinion"? Really? You must have a twisted concept of congruity. How many 'suicide attacks have Orthodox Jews committed? And how how many have Islamists committed? And yet in your mind, they are equal?

Also, IMAGINE protestant christians had the temerity to come into the heart of Islam, in the Arab peninsula and proselytize as they do daily in Israel, to Jews of all colors, orthodox, secular, with surprising enough, the full support of the government.

KUDOS to the Orthodox Jews for pushing away those spiritual predators! Who show care only because they want your soul! or rather, to "Save your soul".

How else are Orthodox Jews, who as much as the protestant (these being the major proselytizers in the country) wants to strengthen his faith, supposed to dissuade them from continuing their surreptitious practices? If protestants will go to whatever means to convert Jews, in ISRAEL, to Christianity, and so aggrandize their faith (while diminishing Judaism), the Jews should be equally permitted to do whatever they need to do to preserve their religion. What theyre doing is simple self defence and fully justifiable.

So cry me a river. Be happy they arent doing what most Muslims would do: cut of your head (this being the punishment for proselytizing in Islamic states)

reply to post by dontreally


This entire thread is just proof that organized religion is a road to insanity. Free Spirituality is and should remain on a personal level. A conversation between you and your god whomever he may be. The flaunting of god by any named religion is the proof of your own pride dissuading you from the truth.

reply to post by dontreally


Well, there was that guy who shot the living s$%^t of of a mosque full of praying islamists....
Killed thirty or so i thought....
Then theres the shooting, bombing, of all those palestinians.....to which they prescribe pretty heavily....
The orthodox jews are ripe to be the suicide bombers of the isreali side when they get down like their palestinians are kept.
All religious fanatics are unbalenced personalities.....

reply to post by dontreally

Also, IMAGINE protestant christians had the temerity to come into the heart of Islam, in the Arab peninsula and proselytize as they do daily in Israel, to Jews of all colors, orthodox, secular, with surprising enough, the full support of the government.

But thats not very likely to happen. Because muslim states are needed to play the role of the "bad guys" in Christian eschatology. Christians can't relate to Islam. They see it as an alien religion that is masquerading as a semitic religion.

However, Christians have a special thing for Jews (despite their rejection and hatred of Jesus)... you know, the whole "chosen people" bit. They also believe in prophetic signs regarding Jews and Israel (ever since the establishment of Israel). Jews converting to Christianity is a sure sign that the are closer to the end. In other words, they have a prophetic use for Israel.

Ever noticed how so many christian groups parade around with Jewish imagery and Jewish sounding terms/names, especially on their websites and literature?

It is par for the course for Christians in the East to contend with such things. If you're a believer, then pray for them and the ones doing such horrible things to them.

Lord, have mercy!

Originally posted by dontreally
They're just as bad extremist muslim, "in your opinion"? Really? You must have a twisted concept of congruity. How many 'suicide attacks have Orthodox Jews committed? And how how many have Islamists committed? And yet in your mind, they are equal?

Also, IMAGINE protestant christians had the temerity to come into the heart of Islam, in the Arab peninsula and proselytize as they do daily in Israel, to Jews of all colors, orthodox, secular, with surprising enough, the full support of the government.

KUDOS to the Orthodox Jews for pushing away those spiritual predators! Who show care only because they want your soul! or rather, to "Save your soul".

How else are Orthodox Jews, who as much as the protestant (these being the major proselytizers in the country) wants to strengthen his faith, supposed to dissuade them from continuing their surreptitious practices? If protestants will go to whatever means to convert Jews, in ISRAEL, to Christianity, and so aggrandize their faith (while diminishing Judaism), the Jews should be equally permitted to do whatever they need to do to preserve their religion. What theyre doing is simple self defence and fully justifiable.

So cry me a river. Be happy they arent doing what most Muslims would do: cut of your head (this being the punishment for proselytizing in Islamic states)

edit on 22-2-2012 by dontreally because: (no reason given)

Haters gonna hate. We actually do care, otherwise christians wouldn't support the U.S. giving billions of our tax dollars to Israel a year, that we really cannot afford just to keep Israel in existence. Guess what? Non christian americans are all for dumping Israel and letting Islam destroy you...

Wanna know what the difference is between christianity and judaism? We don't do jewish rituals and we believe in the jewish Messiah Yeshua haMeshiach. What we do have in common is we read the same books in the bible, but instead of having a babylonian book (Talmud) telling us how to think, what to think and when to think it, we have the gospel of Christ that teaches us how to live right by Yahweh...something jews failed to do otherwise the diaspora would have never happened which was Yahweh's punishment because Israel returned once again, like all the many times before...to the ways of Egypt and once again he punished them as he did during the Assyrian Exile and the Babylonian Exile. You would think after 2000 years you people would have figured out what you did to piss him off.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Christians can't relate to Islam.

Learn your history. Early American protestants tried (in vain) to convert Muslims to Christianity, particularly in Lebanon (beirut), Syria (damascus), Palestine, Turkey and Iraq, but with little success. Who do you think introduced western style democracy into the region? They first sought to bring them over into Christianity, but when that failed, they opened schools, colleges which taught secular values, hoping that this basic mentality would prime them later on for conversion. Some Christian missionaries were even bold enough to go into the Arabian peninsula.

Both religious Muslims and Jews can easily resist the proselytizing of Christians; those less prepared to handle it are secular Jews, the ideal specimen for Christian missionaries.

Jews converting to Christianity is a sure sign that the are closer to the end. In other words, they have a prophetic use for Israel.

If Christians feel they have license to just go about the Jewish state, established by Jews, and convert Jews on will (many countries in the region outlaw missionary activity, but if Israel were to propose such a law, I'm sure there would be an international uproar decrying 'racism'), despite the crisis this would cause to the Orthodox Jewish faith, at least understand that Orthodox Jews have every right to defend themselves against it; if this means acting rude, spitting on them, or doing whatever is necessary to deter them from further activity, that's perfectly understandable.

I wouldn't expect a Christian fanatic to understand this, but any normal, sensible, and judicious minded person can appreciate the reasons for why the Orthodox Jews act as they do. They have no other choice. They just don't want to reject the influence of Christianity within the country; they want them gone - because they know the people they prey upon are not educated/spiritual minded Jews, but the ignorant of Judaism secularist. Unlike Judaism, which can tolerate the existence of other faiths, Christianities existence, de facto, necessitates the abrogation of Judaism. To an Orthodox or religious Jew, this is detestable. It's intolerable. For them to have resurrected their state to still have to deal with the wily Christian personality - which refuses to accept another groups religious individuality - I can perfectly understand their annoyance. It is completely obnoxious.

Ever noticed how so many christian groups parade around with Jewish imagery and Jewish sounding terms/names, especially on their websites and literature?

Yes.. It's a more clever form of replacement theology. They've kept the theology/metaphysics while discarding the latin/greek mode of expression.

Originally posted by dontreally
They just don't want to reject the influence of Christianity within the country; they want them gone - because they know the people they prey upon are not educated/spiritual minded Jews, but the ignorant of Judaism secularist. Unlike Judaism, which can tolerate the existence of other faiths, Christianities existence, de facto, necessitates the abrogation of Judaism. To an Orthodox or religious Jew, this is detestable. It's intolerable. For them to have resurrected their state to still have to deal with the wily Christian personality - which refuses to accept another groups religious individuality - I can perfectly understand their annoyance. It is completely obnoxious.

Should ethnic Christians (who have a longer presence in that area than most of the Jewish immigrants) have to deal with Jewish intolerance in Israel? You seem to be an advocate for it. In fact, most of the apostolic Christian groups in the area have had a presence there since the first century. They leave Jews alone and do their own thing. However, it is a fact that Israel wants church property for itself very badly.

reply to post by LeSigh

Should ethnic Christians (who have a longer presence in that area than most of the Jewish immigrants) have to deal with Jewish intolerance in Israel?

Of course not. Just as Jews should not deal with intolerance in Christian countries but even there you can find cases of offensive things written on Synanogues and Jews attacked. It happens often? No. It happens often in Israel? No.
Also, ethnic Christians - to me it sounds pretty weird. Isn't it the concept of Christianity that there should be no specific nation or ethnic group associated with religion - this is one of the things that it criticised in Judaism.
I might be wrong, not a Christian.

They leave Jews alone and do their own thing. However, it is a fact that Israel wants church property for itself very badly.

Just as majority of Israeli Jews leave Christians alone and do their own thing. And there are Christians in Israel who are intolerant of Jews (and try to convert them for example). See, there are all types in any group. Of course Jews have more responsibility for the situation since we are a majority.
And as for all known fact that Israel wants church property for itself - i am pretty ignorant of this. Can you explain it to me or it is another of "oh everybody knows it but i have no idea what happens in reality" facts?

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


I assume that anyone living in Israel would have general knowledge of this. First, the land where the knesset and your prime minister's residence are on belong to the Greek Orthodox Church of Jerusalem. Also, there was a huge controversy a few scant years ago when the Orthodox Church removed the Patriarch of Jerusalem from his position and instituted a new Patriarch. The reason this was done was because he tried to illegally sell church property to Israeli investors. Your country refused to recognize the new Patriarch, who was canonical, and froze the Patriarchal bank accounts. This was done by Israel because they wanted to open up the extensive land holdings of the Patriarchate. Ha'aretz even reported in 2007 that your government promised to recognize the new Patriarch if he would give up control of several properties to Israel. This attempt to get church land has been going for- at least- forty years.

Second, as regards to ethnic Christians, while Christianity is a missionary religion that isn't relegated to one ethnic group, there are many Christians in Jerusalem whose families have literally been Christian and lived in the area since the first century.

reply to post by LeSigh

I assume that anyone living in Israel would have general knowledge of this. First, the land where the knesset and your prime minister's residence are on belong to the Greek Orthodox Church of Jerusalem.

Knesset and prime minister residence are built on land leased from Greek Orthodox church. As in - one side agrees to lease and other side pays for it. As in - legal contract thingy. Which is a totaly usual way to do things, in my opinion. Cristians are allowed to lease land to Jews in Israel, this is not |Palestinin autonomy after all.
How it is "getting Christian land" is beyond me.
As for Jerusalem Patriarch issue - the story is complex as you are probably aware (since from what i remember there was a ping pong accusations and even Palestinian autonomy and Jordan supported the replaced Patriarch at first) but even if it is as described it is nothing more then Christian official who sold land to private Jewish investor. What is wrong with this if it was done legally? Can Greek Orthodox church sell land in Israel according to Israeli law? Yes. Can Jews buy land in Israel according to Israeli law? Yes. Where in this picture you find "Israel getting Christian lands"? Because of legally buying or leasing?
Now for Haaretz article - i had no idea about it. I could not find it on the net but there was clearly something like this due to numeorus sources mentioning it.
Since i do not know the details - i"ll trust you with the blackmail new Patriarch attempt by Israeli ministers. It clearly failed though.
So Israel is getting Christian lands by legally leasing. Jewish people (i am not that sure that those were Israeli Jews) are buying lands legally and when Israeli ministers try to do something illegal it fails. Pretty normal, don;t you think? Replace Israel with your country of choice, Christians with Jews and you will surely see what i mean.

reply to post by LeSigh

Should ethnic Christians (who have a longer presence in that area than most of the Jewish immigrants) have to deal with Jewish intolerance in Israel?

There are Jewish communities in Israel which antedate Christianity. And secondly, Jews are only rude to those Christians (predominantly protestant, not eastern catholics) who attempt to proselytize them; some even going so far as to go into Orthodox neighborhoods to 'spread the Gospel'. This is obviously very offensive to religious Jews.

Just as the Christians actively seek to lead ethnic Jews to an unnatural religion (Christianity, as opposed to the religion of their forefathers, Judaism) religious Jews should be entitled to practice counter-missionary activity, which essentially involves any practices or behavior which will hamper the ability of Christian missionaries to successfully convert Jews.

You seem to be an advocate for it

The problem here is people not understanding the reasoning for why Orthodox Jews are rude to Christians; it's not Christianity per say, they are intolerant towards (on the country, historically, theologically, Christianity is intolerant of Judaism. Judaism can survive the existence of Christianity, whereas Christianity, as per the pauline doctrine of a 'new israel', seeks to supplant the 'old covenant' or testament) Christian missionary activity in the country.

Originally posted by Revolution9
Writing On The Wall: Israel and Its Christians.

Please refer to this very well written and informative article in The Jerusalem Post.

It describes in great detail the aggressive intolerance of Christians in Israel. After reading this article I shall never go to Israel again until they treat their minorities better!

What bullies! I have lost all respect for Orthodox Judaism. In my honest opinion they are no better than the extremist Muslims.

I think we should all not get involved in the silly arguements and leaved them to destroy eachother as they surely will. Let them stone eachother. If they act like this these peoples have no place in our civilized world and they are dragging down our civility.

Absolutely disgusted after reading this article.

edit on 22-2-2012 by Revolution9 because: spelling and clarification

They see us as trying to diminish their religion because were trying to get them to see they do not need to wait for their Messiah, he came 2000 years ago. Ofcourse theyre going to resist and be aggressive, if they have to acknowledge Yeshua as their Messiah, then that means for the last 2000 years they inherited lies and it will turn their religion on it's ear. Thats not something people can easily swallow, naturally theyre going to fight like hell to preserve what they think is right.