Federal (someday global?) Driver's license, should I get one?

I received a letter in the mail asking me to bring various additional documents on my license renewal in about a month such as birth certificate, social security card or other proofs of existence.

Q. Many states refuse to comply with federal identification standards. Why is the Delaware DMV making all these changes to comply?

A: By complying with these standards in addition to driving authority and identification, you will be able to use your driver license or identification card for domestic flights, entering federal facilities, and other official federal purposes. Without obtaining a federally compliant driver license or identification card you will be required to obtain a U.S. passport to do these things and obtaining a passport is more time consuming and expensive for you.

I'm going to need a U.S. passport for domestic (U.S.) flights? Federal facilities like post offices and national parks? What are 'other official federal purposes' exactly?

Q. What do I have to do to obtain a compliant driver license or identification card?
A: For existing driver license or identification card holders you will be presenting original source documents at the time of renewal like you did the first time you obtained your driver license or identification card. Again, this is a one-time revalidation; the only time the DMV will need to see your source documents again is if you decide to change any of the information on your driver license or identification card such as a name change or if your immigration documents expire. All new applicants will already be required to show this documentation, so for them it will be business as usual. See the acceptable documentation list for complete details.

Q. Am I required to obtain a compliant driver license or identification card?
A: While we felt it was absolutely necessary to comply with federal identification standards, we also understand that some existing customers may not want or be able to bring the necessary source documentation for obtaining a compliant DL/ID card. For individuals in this situation, you may obtain a non-compliant driver license or identification card.

I appreciate that the state has feeling about federal identification standards, however this in no way causes me to develop a compulsion to feel the same.

Q. Does a compliant DL/ID card look different that a non-compliant DL/ID card?
A: Yes, but not by much. The overall appearance is the same; however, a compliant DL/ID card is distinguishable by the gold star in the upper right hand corner of the DL/ID card, and a non-compliant card is distinguishable by the phrase "Not for Federal Identification" printed in the upper margin of the DL/ID card.

Q. Can I still drive with a non-compliant DL?
A: Yes, the "compliant/non-compliant" status is used solely for federal identification purposes, not driving authority.

I see...so by not bringing in this information, I'm considered non-compliant even though I'm not breaking a law. Interesting. Ah, but here's reassurance:

Federal Identification Standards Facts vs. Myths

Does not create a National Identification Card
In fact, driver licenses and identification cards (DLs/IDs) are issued by each state, not the federal government. The federal identification standards give states flexibility in issuing unique DLs/IDs based on states' own design concepts. All minimum data elements required by the federal law are already included on the Delaware's DLs/IDs.

Does not require a national database of personal information
In fact, federal identification standards do not grant the federal government or law enforcement greater access to DMV data, nor does it create a national database of personal information. Access to personal information maintained by the DMV is limited as described in the Delaware Driver Privacy Protection Act (Title 21 Del. C. § 305).

Does not contain an RFID chip
In fact, the federal identification standards do not require any form of radio frequency identification (RFID) chips. Delaware will not be putting an RFID chip in any card issued by the DMV.

www.dmv.de.gov...

What do you think I should do? And why?

Do non-compliant, so the police treat you like a person of interest at traffic stops.
Then take that new license and throw it in the microwave for 8 seconds or so.

If we all, or the majority of us are non-compliant, what are they going to do? Throw us all in Guantanamo?

I would definitely go non-compliant. Why comply with this travesty of a law?

Originally posted by JibbyJedi
Do non-compliant, so the police treat you like a person of interest at traffic stops.

I'm thinking so. Going from 'non-compliant' to 'resisting arrest' (even though I wouldn't do that) wouldn't take any stretch of the imagination for a judge or jury I'm sure.

Then take that new license and throw it in the microwave for 8 seconds or so.

Ah, but I'm assured there's no RFID chip so it should be perfectly safe, right?

If we all, or the majority of us are non-compliant, what are they going to do? Throw us all in Guantanamo?

Good question. Although I don't know the answer to that, I do know what would happen if we all are compliant.

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
I would definitely go non-compliant. Why comply with this travesty of a law?

Interestingly I didn't find anything in the mailed literature that stated I had an option to be non-compliant. I had to 'go to the website for more information'. I wonder how many people realize they have a choice?

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
I would definitely go non-compliant. Why comply with this travesty of a law?

Interestingly I didn't find anything in the mailed literature that stated I had an option to be non-compliant. I had to 'go to the website for more information'. I wonder how many people realize they have a choice?

Probably not many, and that's the trick. They don't realize they have any choice at all. The whole thing is a BS scam that they trick you into consenting to. You don't need a driver's license at all. "Driving" implies commercial activity. You have the right to life, liberty, etc. and liberty includes the ability to TRAVEL. You are not "driving" a truck, taxi or limo, you are traveling in your personal automobile. It has been to the Supreme Court several times.

The easiest way is to bury them in their own BS. Get one of those International Driving Licenses. It's total BS, not really valid in any way. There's no way you can have a license valid in every country. However, it's enough to outwit the cops, who usually don't have all too many wits about them. Tell them you are a tourist from Lichtenstein, and you borrowed your friend's car. They don't even know the STATUTES that they are enforcing. With over 600,000 STATUTES on the books, no one can know them all. That's the idea.

But these are not LAWS, they are STATUTES. Corporate regulations that you agreed to obey. I didn't agree to obey them, so I don't have to. It's as if you worked in some office, where they had a dress code, suit and tie. I come there to meet you to go out to lunch, wearing shorts and a t shirt. They may look at me funny, or think I'm a derelict or whatever, but they can't MAKE me put on a suit and tie. The most they could do would be make me leave the building.

This is where you press the issue. Are you saying I have to leave the COUNTRY because of this? Because no way.

reply to post by DarthMuerte


What if one wishes to travel and not spend a fortune on a passport?

Granted, passports aren't that expensive but it just seems easier to get an enhance license?

I too, am looking into the e-license. It's only $25 to upgrade a standard license.

So why do you mind taking your birth certificate down to the DMV so your license will be compliant? Is it just the principle of the thing?

I'm anti big-brother too, but I'd just as soon not have to face the hassle of NOT having a compliant license.

We're already so screwed with our rules about flying that I don't see why making it more complicated for yourself could possibly make a difference. The cow has already left the barn.

Here on ATS we may be aware that our laws are more restrictive than ever, but since most of America doesn't care, I can't see anything changing, even if every one of us tried to take a stand.

My take is: just get the Federally compliant license. You certainly have the right not to, but you'll be causing yourself more hassle down the road.

Originally posted by CaptChaos
You don't need a driver's license at all. "Driving" implies commercial activity. You have the right to life, liberty, etc. and liberty includes the ability to TRAVEL. You are not "driving" a truck, taxi or limo, you are traveling in your personal automobile. It has been to the Supreme Court several times.

I've highlighted this portion because this is interesting, first I've heard of it. If a license isn't required, what would a person do when they've gotten pulled over?

Originally posted by The Sword
I too, am looking into the e-license. It's only $25 to upgrade a standard license.

I'm leaning against the e-licence, or "iDrive" as it's called here, or any other fun-friendly sounding happy meal deal identification, not merely for the ridiculous name but for what it is apparently trying to hide, which is the micromanagement of an individual.

Originally posted by GeorgiaGirl
So why do you mind taking your birth certificate down to the DMV so your license will be compliant? Is it just the principle of the thing?

I have this 'weird request' alarm that goes off now and then, like when someone calls claiming they want to confirm my address. I don't see the connection between my birth certificate and my driver's license at present. I passed their test, they took my picture, and they've trusted me driving for many years with a collision-free record. Now they are re-thinking whether it was a good idea?

Originally posted by GeorgiaGirl
I'm anti big-brother too, but I'd just as soon not have to face the hassle of NOT having a compliant license.

We're already so screwed with our rules about flying that I don't see why making it more complicated for yourself could possibly make a difference. The cow has already left the barn.

Sounds like you work at the DMV . I kid, hear ya truly.

Originally posted by GeorgiaGirl
Here on ATS we may be aware that our laws are more restrictive than ever, but since most of America doesn't care, I can't see anything changing, even if every one of us tried to take a stand.

My take is: just get the Federally compliant license. You certainly have the right not to, but you'll be causing yourself more hassle down the road.

My curiosity has been piqued I must say and I'm getting closer and closer to that point in life where it matters less about being hassled. I appreciate your perspective and believe it adds some interesting thoughts to the conversation.

reply to post by saint4God


:-) No, I don't work at the DMV. Thank goodness. I don't even want to GO to the DMV, probably like most of the population!

And I have to say, I would do almost anything to avoid a hassle, and for me, as I'm getting older, I'm willing to face a hassle even LESS. That's why I would rather stay home than fly anywhere. But if I did want to fly somewhere, I would want it to be hassle free.

I just did some Googling, and it sounds like this state is trying to meet the "Real ID Act" Federal standards.
en.wikipedia.org...

Driver's license implications
The REAL ID Act's implications for driver's licenses and ID cards is detailed in Title II of the Act. Title II of REAL ID — “Improved Security for Driver’s License and Personal Identification Cards” — repeals the driver's licenses provisions of the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act,[14] also known as the "9/11 Commission Implementation Act of 2004", that was enacted in December 2004. Section 7212 of that law established a cooperative state-federal process, via a negotiated rule-making procedure, to create federal standards for driver’s licenses.
Instead, the Real ID Act directly imposes specific federal driver’s license standards.

It sounds like the state just wants to be REALLY sure who they are issuing these licenses to.

I agree, thanks for the info on the Real ID act.

I also find it interesting that some people want less hassle as time goes on while others of us get more scrappy (vocally).

reply to post by saint4God


I got my letter not long ago as well. Gave it some thought and decided if it will save me passport hassle later to go ahead and get it. Also, should they decide to enforce the federal office requirement later on, I dont want to be denied access and have that added hassle.
I say just get it and pay the $25.00.

Seems to me that by not getting it is only going to give the impression you've got something to hide...

Originally posted by wutz4tom
Seems to me that by not getting it is only going to give the impression you've got something to hide...

Although I haven't anything to hide, this is actually the mentality that I'm most concern with. Guilty until proven innocent.

Q. Does a compliant DL/ID card look different that a non-compliant DL/ID card?
A: Yes, but not by much. The overall appearance is the same; however, a compliant DL/ID card is distinguishable by the GOLD STAR in the upper right hand corner of the DL/ID card, and a non-compliant card is distinguishable by the phrase "Not for Federal Identification" printed in the upper margin of the DL/ID card.

Quoted from your excerpt and emphasis mine...

I remember a history lesson about stars aligning with identification purposes...

One was for identifying a jew.
Another is for identifying a federal citizen.
I certainly don't like the idea of using another gold star for identification.


I'm not saying...I'm just saying...

Originally posted by havok
I remember a history lesson about stars aligning with identification purposes...

Woah, I didn't even think about that connection. I need to take a walk...

reply to post by saint4God


I'm not saying you should make a connection like I did.
But it's worth arguing that a gold star makes a bad impression on a select group of people.

There may not be a connection, but my conspiratorial mind always ponders the hidden agenda.
Maybe this is the beginning of a new era of identification...
Or maybe this is just a simple star.


I wouldn't get one.
But then again, when the time comes, there's a few things I won't accept.

Papers please, comrade.

If they are actually advocating this (or you eventually having to get an actual passport) then this is very Soviet Union of them. Internal passports are still a reality in Russia.

latitude.blogs.nytimes.com... internal-passport-is-a-soviet-vestige/

Anyway, interesting fact: There were some Christians way back when in Russia who refused to get passports as they associated it as the mark of the beast of Russia's anti-Christ government. They couldn't do anything or go anywhere without one. They usually died as martyrs.

reply to post by saint4God


Did you read the information from that DMV site?

There is no RFID in such a card.