The Top 10% of income earners paid 71% of federal income tax

Originally posted by DenyObfuscation
reply to post by Skyfloating

 

That sounds reasonable but I would love to see how this happens

I know a number of people who earn less than me but end up with the same standard of living because they pay less tax.

Is that really possible?

Capital Gains Tax? Look at Mitt Romney.

Another solution: Tax Free Mutual Funds / Municipal Bonds

reply to post by DenyObfuscation


I have already provided proof, when are you going to demonstrate some credibility by admitting that you are wrong. The only thing you do here is present your opinions as facts, and attack people you disagree with.

If students don't pay taxes, then why does the IRS have a page on tax information for students?

www.irs.gov...

You can choose to learn about the realities of this world, or you can choose to wallow in ignorance. Which will it be?

reply to post by Eurisko2012


Yeah that could happen. I'm thinking about the typical working person paying income tax. This is about someone making less than her but after taxes has as much remaining.

reply to post by poet1b


Answer the # question Poet sans rhyme or reason

Are you gonna answer this or run and hide?

Children don't have to file taxes to be considered income earners subject to tax.

Would they not have to file a separate return in order to have an effect on the total number of returns from which "top 10%" is derived? This is one of the reasons I asked you specific questions that you chose to avoid. Can you answer that question?

ETA: Remember top 10% is based on AGI. To have AGI you must file a return.
Kiplingers
Are they bogus too?

If students don't pay taxes, then why does the IRS have a page on tax information for students?

Never said they don't. You're very confused. Answer the question and you might get it.

reply to post by Skyfloating


"Prestigious Heritage Foundation"

It wouldn't be news that the Heritage Foundation has no credibility, that has been known for a long time, and the shoddiness of your link in the op is proof of that.

Did you work a job in high school? If so, then you were an income earner, and probably filed your own tax return. If not, find someone who had a job in high school, and ask them about it. I have already provided links that show how the IRS defines income earners and tax returns, and now a link on student taxes from the IRS. How much proof do you need.

If you pay 45% in income taxes, then you need a new accountant. How in the world does this work out?

Here are some questions you should be asking yourself.

How long do you think your income will remain in the 5% tax bracket?

What percentage of your life will you be earning that amount of money?

Did you consider yourself a tax dead beat when you were going to school, or is that your current opinion of your former self?

Will you be a tax deadbeat when you retire, and start paying less taxes?

Why do you have such a problem with the poor people on the other side of town scraping to get by, who you have been conned into believing are the source of your tax problems, when you might very well be paying more in taxes than Paris Hilton?

Sorry you buy into this propaganda, but that is exactly what this Heritage Foundation puts out.

This belongs in the hoax bin.

reply to post by DenyObfuscation


Stop running from it. Time to admit you are wrong. I have already provided the truth.

Man up.

reply to post by poet1b

I have already provided proof, when are you going to demonstrate some credibility by admitting that you are wrong.

What you contend is proof is irrelevent to the issue.

The only thing you do here is present your opinions as facts, and attack people you disagree with.

That's your M.O. The evidence is clear. I expose your lies and misunderstandings.

You can choose to learn about the realities of this world, or you can choose to wallow in ignorance. Which will it be?

I choose option 3, to demonstrate the reality that you wallow in and proliferate your own ignorance. Would you care to quit your nonsense and appear rational for a change?

This should be the final nail in the coffin.

Fact of the matter is that 57% of the taxes are paid by FUTURE Taxpayers, as our current deficit is 57% of the budget. So no, the top 10% did not pay 71% of fed income tax, because 57% is expect to be paid by future tax payers, who ever they are.

Where does all this fed expenditure go?

Most of it goes to the military to protect International Corporations abroad, which almost exclusively benefits the rich.

The next biggest budget item is interest on the debt, money borrowed mainly to finance military expenditures, most of the interest going to the very rich.

The next biggest budget item is medicaid, used primarily to subsidize illegal immigration which provides slave labor for the super rich.

The problem isn't what percentage people pay, but what do they get back from the government in return. For the average person these days, nothing.

The bottom 99% should not be paying any income tax, as they aren't getting anything back for their money.

reply to post by DenyObfuscation

What you contend is proof is irrelevent to the issue.

In the land of denial where you live.

What percentage do you think Paris Hilton and other trust fund babies pay in taxes?
Or you can continue wallowing.

Well, instead of this bickering back and forth with who is considered rich or whatnot.....

Should the rich pay more - sure, why not (how much more and who is considered "rich" would have to be clarified.

Should corporations pay more - there are too many tax loopholes, many big corps pay 0 in taxes (like GE). Also, corporations should have to pay a tariff if they choose to move their location to another country.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That being said, I feel the government is becoming a nanny, to look out for you when it has no place doing so. Heck, with the right set of circumstances, you can make make the equivalent of 15/hr doing nothing. The problem isn't generating revenue, it is the government spending that has gotten us where we are today. But both revenue and spending issues need to be looked at or nothing is going to get better.

So both sides of the argument have merit, but try getting one side to see things from the others perspective.

reply to post by MidnightTide

it is the government spending that has gotten us where we are today.

Government spending protecting corporate assets abroad, while corporations pay no taxes.

The cost incurred by government to protect the exportation of our jobs should be included in the price of the products.

reply to post by Laokin


Thank you for the excellent clarification since skyfloating, jacklondonmiller, and beezzer as well as likely many others didn't understand. I also must add that one must consider another couple of facts.

1. the top 10% own over 90% of the wealth so shouldn't over 90% of taxes end up paid by them?
2.Many of these individuals and corporations use offshore tax shelters to hide ridiculously enormous portions of their wealth so that the money isn't counted and isn't figured into that 71% figure. Thus the amount of taxes they actually pay is probably more like 30-50% if you were able to figure in all of the hidden wealth and ultimately they pay way less than what they should.
3. Since they are the main ones who benefit from the largest portion of government spending (military, whom wouldn't be used to protect me in an invasion but most certainly would be heavily posted at their mansions) Plus the tax breaks that large corporations get for many varied reasons, It only makes sense that they pay the larger portion.

If the government ever actually starts to make laws and do things in the world to benefit the bottom 90% then that is the moment they should bear the tax burden. As it is we pay enough with the blood of our sons and daughters used to fight the wars that are waged for the monetary gain of the already rich and powerful. The least they can do is pay the taxes (which they have plenty to spare for) and keep the entitlements to take care of the sick and disadvantaged that breed more pawns for them to send to war!

reply to post by MidnightTide


Right. As for the question of do the top 10% pay about 70% of income tax collected? It's a statistical fact and I don't get why so many people feel the need to lie about it. Before I read this thread I would have bet that they paid nowhere near that high of the total. The fact that so many people don't even make enough money to have to pay federal income tax is appalling.

reply to post by Laced713

I also must add that one must consider another couple of facts.

Also consider that facts are true.

1. the top 10% own over 90% of the wealth so shouldn't over 90% of taxes end up paid by them?

Assuming the percentages are correct, income tax is not on wealth. There is a difference. Wealth would be taxed by property tax, real estate tax, etc.

2.Many of these individuals and corporations use offshore tax shelters to hide ridiculously enormous portions of their wealth so that the money isn't counted and isn't figured into that 71% figure. Thus the amount of taxes they actually pay is probably more like 30-50% if you were able to figure in all of the hidden wealth and ultimately they pay way less than what they should.

Untaxed hidden "wealth" or income if taxed would actually drive the percentage up, not down.

reply to post by Laced713


We should return to 1960ties tax rates, where the wealthy pay 70% of their income in taxes, and corporations start paying their fair share once again. That would approach fair once again.

It is the people in the upper 80-99% of income earners who are really getting screwed.

If you only conduct business within state borders, you should pay no fed income tax, gas taxes and sin taxes and other non-income taxes collected by the fed should cover the amount rightly owed.

People have been suckered into thinking the super rich don't want big government, but they are the ones who push for the big military police state to protect their wealth.

Originally posted by DenyObfuscation
reply to post by MidnightTide

 

Right. As for the question of do the top 10% pay about 70% of income tax collected? It's a statistical fact and I don't get why so many people feel the need to lie about it. Before I read this thread I would have bet that they paid nowhere near that high of the total. The fact that so many people don't even make enough money to have to pay federal income tax is appalling.

Yes, the poor are not paying their - fair share - .

It's hard to justify letting them take a - free ride - .


I like the Herman Cain 9 - 9 - 9 Plan.

We ALL need to have skin in the game.

reply to post by Eurisko2012


Why should the poor be paying for our huge military presence in the Middle East?

Why should the poor be paying for red state pork barrel projects?

Your like anti Robin Hood, rob from the poor and give to the rich.

We should eliminate income tax and re-start with a wealth tax.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by MidnightTide

 

it is the government spending that has gotten us where we are today.

Government spending protecting corporate assets abroad, while corporations pay no taxes.

The cost incurred by government to protect the exportation of our jobs should be included in the price of the products.

Exxon Mobil pays $$$ billions in taxes. - Stop lying -

- Exxon Mobil Taxes -

GE is the one gaming the system with an army of tax attorneys.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Eurisko2012

 

Why should the poor be paying for our huge military presence in the Middle East?

Why should the poor be paying for red state pork barrel projects?

Your like anti Robin Hood, rob from the poor and give to the rich.

We should eliminate income tax and re-start with a wealth tax.

The poor should pay something instead of nothing.

It's not fair for them to take a - Free Ride -.

I know they are paying other taxes like sales tax but they should contribute

something to the Feds as well.

Originally posted by MidnightTide
Well, instead of this bickering back and forth with who is considered rich or whatnot.....

Should the rich pay more - sure, why not (how much more and who is considered "rich" would have to be clarified.

Should corporations pay more - there are too many tax loopholes, many big corps pay 0 in taxes (like GE). Also, corporations should have to pay a tariff if they choose to move their location to another country.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That being said, I feel the government is becoming a nanny, to look out for you when it has no place doing so. Heck, with the right set of circumstances, you can make make the equivalent of 15/hr doing nothing. The problem isn't generating revenue, it is the government spending that has gotten us where we are today. But both revenue and spending issues need to be looked at or nothing is going to get better.

So both sides of the argument have merit, but try getting one side to see things from the others perspective.

Actually, the bickering came to end on the Thread Title.

It turns out the Heritage Foundation numbers are - correct -.

The Top 10% of income earners paid 71% of federal income tax.

---------
The rich pay more than their fair share in federal taxes.

The Occupy Wall Street drones / 99% crowd are living a lie.
---------
Some on this thread are trying to switch the conversation to corporate taxes.

Nice try. We are winning that argument as well.

The truth is simple. Always remember that.