The Top 10% of income earners paid 71% of federal income tax

Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

My mother who owns a company makes about 154,000$ in gross income. She pays out nearly 68,000$ in taxes (State and Federal)

I dont know exactly how much more people want. She is paying around 50%+ of the her income to taxes. Though she lives comfortably , i think it is rather stupid to be charging her 50%+ of her income.

If these people get what they want, she will be paying more then that.....the "people" will decide how much she pays.

reply to post by Xtrozero


Amen brother on some much needed manufacturing jobs
here in the good ol' USA.

Lets look at the equation the other way - from the point of view of Joe Ordinary. He gets paid X dollars, gets taxed at a much higher rate. There are many more Joe Ordinarys (JO) out there then James Welloffs (JW). Stiil the tax income from taxing JW is greater the JO's.This implies that JO's income is a pitance compared to JW's. Here lies the problem. I have no quams about JW's hard work earning him more. However most countries, including the one i'm from use a graded tax system which gives a tax break to those who earn less rather then the other way. Allows governments to collect adequate funds for education and healthcare and to some extent for defensive purposes (not offencive). Until then the majority of people will cry 'foul'.

reply to post by peck420


Insults. How very productive.

I really have no reason to argue with you, because I know I'm right, and the real numbers of corporate compensation speak for themselves. Many of the waves of layoffs are directly linked to CEOs and owners looking for ways to inflate their own accounts at the expense of their employees.

You're right, they did change the system, and that system has now fallen back into the same circumstances they fought (and died) to change. What's lacking today? Balls. The people of today lack the balls to retalitate and take what they should be payed. Do those same ball-less individuals deserve to make s**t money because they lack the impetus to stand up and demand it? Possibly, but that is for another thread.

I looked for this chart on IRS.gov and it did not come up. I did a search on google and it leads to third party websites and does not show anything with a .gov. Unless you can provide me a link to the chart that exists on a United States Government website I call foul.

And to reiterate I did do searches and related searches on the IRS website.

Just saying.

Originally posted by OrchusGhule
Insults. How very productive.

Take it however you want too.

What's lacking today?

The ability of the average worker to live independently of the system.

reply to post by MidnightTide

I am calling BS on that statement.

This is why I don't work overtime, if I do the taxes are horrible and I barely make anything for the extra hours I put in.

There is no possible scenario where you don't come out with a net gain.

If you think you do...please give the numbers and prove it.

Originally posted by js331975
I looked for this chart on IRS.gov and it did not come up. I did a search on google and it leads to third party websites and does not show anything with a .gov. Unless you can provide me a link to the chart that exists on a United States Government website I call foul.

And to reiterate I did do searches and related searches on the IRS website.




Just saying.

Not sure if you are refering to my post about the spread sheet on individual income statistics but here you go (and it looks like 2009 is still the latest)

www.irs.gov...=96981,00.html

I thought this was relevant to this thread, lol, a link up on the Drudge Report right now:

Percentage of Americans who pay no tax hits 49.5...

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by MidnightTide

 

I am calling BS on that statement.

This is why I don't work overtime, if I do the taxes are horrible and I barely make anything for the extra hours I put in.

There is no possible scenario where you don't come out with a net gain.

If you think you do...please give the numbers and prove it.

I said I don't make all that much working a full days shift of overtime, most of it gets taken away in tax. I have a "net gain" but the amount is laughable (as to specifics, don't think so Tim). My time is better spent just staying at home.....and this is what will happen with those who produce.

Why work so others don't have to.

reply to post by MidnightTide


Your logic makes no sense...overtime doesn't get taxed any higher than any other income.

And even if your overtime would bump you into a new tax bracket...the only income taxed at that bracket is what is made over the lower limit of that bracket.

Why even work full time? Why not just work part time...working that full time just gets you taxed more.


Most overtime is double time...right? So if you make x per hour, overtime you are making 2x per hour. Let's say you are in the 25% tax bracket...effectively you are getting 1.5x per hour after federal income taxes.

So if you are saying 1.5 times your regular wage "isn't worth it"...I think you have other reasons for not working overtime rather than taxes.

Orwell would be rolling over in his grave if he was reading this thread.

Dou·ble·Speak - Noun - Evasive, ambiguous language that is intended to deceive or confuse.

Job Creators = Rich.

Successful = Super rich.

Hard work = Expensive accountants and tax lawyers finding loopholes.

Downsizing = Layoffs, outsourcing.

Educated = Wealthy family pays for college at fancy school i.e. George Bush attending Yale.

It really is sad how some people jump to the defense of the Uber-rich in hopes that they too may someday be Uber-rich, if they "work hard and climb the ladder". Sorry, this just does not happen. And don't throw Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg(sp?) at me, they were flukes and a very small percentage of them.
 

It strikes me that regardless of what side of the political fence one may sit, in this site a good portion of the members show genuine concern about how the government monitors the people. Regardless of political affiliation, many members in this site seem genuinely outraged at the continued erosion of due process of law. However, when it comes to this so called "Personal Income Tax" many who would otherwise insist on due process of law suddenly don't care about it.

Can you imagine if a suspect for murder was required "by law" to supply all the evidence necessary to convict him, and if he fails to supply this evidence then he will be convicted of "evasion" or "failure to comply"?

Can you imagine if a suspect for theft was required "by law" to confess their crime and if they "fail' to do so they will be convicted of "failure to confess"?

Does anyone even know what due process of law really means anymore? How could most of us when we readily accept a reality where tax collectors merely make accusations of a tax debt and this is enough for them to seize all assets of the accused even before that accused is given an opportunity to face his accusers in a court of law?

Has anyone ever read the "Taxpayers Bill of Rights"? Has anyone ever read that and compared it to the actual Bill of Rights within the Constitution? In the "Taxpayer Bill of Rights" it is stated that if you have a dispute with the tax collection agency over how much is owed, you can enter pay the tax first in order to gain the privilege of entering a tax court to plead your case. How is this due process of law?

Does anyone understand that "tax courts" do not come with juries, and do not function at all in the same way Constitutionally mandated courts function? Does anyone understand that by first paying a disputed tax that this payment undermines the dispute? Does anyone understand that when you file a "valid tax return" you are confessing to your own liability and doing so - under the law of contracts - by way of your own sworn signature made under threat of penalty of perjury? How is this due process of law?

Does anyone understand the vast amount of record keeping the government has on "taxpayers" because of all of this "valid tax returns" filed?

Am I the only member whose parents raised him to believe that concerning yourself with how much other people made was impolite? Since when does earning a personal income suddenly become public knowledge? How is a private persons earnings anyone's business other than the person earning?

Poll taxes, property taxes, excise taxes, and imposts, all are methods of taxation that generally do not require warehouses to store years and years of records to appease the tax collector. There are no cottage industries popping up for sales taxes, or property taxes, or other such taxes, but for "income tax" there are hundreds of thousands of "tax attorneys" and "tax accountants" who all claim expertise in this so called "Personal Income Tax", but ask anyone of these "experts" how you've been made liable for the tax to begin with and watch these agitated "experts" insist they don't want to have a Constitutional debate with you and start hurling all sorts of ad hominems while relying on a vast array of logical fallacies just to get you the hell out of their office, because one thing is for sure, those "experts" have made a good living based on your ignorance and they sure as hell are not going to help you "deny this ignorance".

Fortunately for all those "tax attorneys" and "tax accountants" most people seem to be happily comfortable in their ignorance and wouldn't even dare consider a world without "tax attorneys" and "tax accountants". No one really seems to care that this whole "income" tax scheme is being enforced with total disregard for due process, and all most seem to care about is that people "pay their fair share" of this dubious tax that defies all rule of law.

Sigh.

Originally posted by eNumbra

Originally posted by Skyfloating


Define "fair".

fair [fair]   Origin fair 1   [fair] adjective, fair·er, fair·est, adverb, fair·er, fair·est, noun, verb adjective
1. free from bias, dishonesty, or injustice: a fair decision; a fair judge.

Is it "fair" that half the country effectively pays nothing in taxes, yet consumes just as much, if not more of the byproduct of the other 50%'s tax dollars?

How is it "fair" that anyone should be expected to watch any percentage of their income being taken from them to be redistributed to those who are not financially supporting the system themselves?

Tiered taxation is legalized theft. Any and all who support it and, even worse, expect an even higher percentage to be stolen as a payer's income increases, are theives. Plan and simple, theft is NOT fair.

Originally posted by ideasarebulletproof
It really is sad how some people jump to the defense of the Uber-rich in hopes that they too may someday be Uber-rich, if they "work hard and climb the ladder". Sorry, this just does not happen. And don't throw Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg(sp?) at me, they were flukes and a very small percentage of them.

Some jump to their defense because the government won't stop there.

The 'Uber-rich' don't have the funds to correct the current situation as it currently stands.

That means that unless the government changes how they operate, they will continue on through the rich, the wealthy, and finally the middle class....leaving nothing but the impoverished.

I would post a poem, but I really don't want to heap more Godwin onto this thread.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher

Your logic makes no sense...overtime doesn't get taxed any higher than any other income.

Yes it does. My last employer had an impossible time getting people to work overtime for him because of this. I myself agreed one week and wound up putting over 70 hours of work that week. I made a little over $2000 that week which was considerably more than I was making at an average of 40 hour weeks, in fact twice as much more, but nearly $900 was taken out of the check so while I wound up taking home more than I would have had I only worked a 40 hour week, I wound up working for pennies on the dollar those extra 30 hours and only did so to help my employer and apparently the government.

The loss of time versus what was gained was tantamount to sacrifice, and few I know are willing to make such sacrifices.

Indeed, that this does happen only illustrates the absurdity of this "income tax" which has the effect of preventing wealth accumulation and thus has the effect of discouraging the work necessary to accumulate wealth.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
I found a chart sourced from the IRS that shows how the top 10% of income earners paid 71% of federal income tax. This is pretty interesting because it would mean that all those calls that the rich should pay more taxes or that they dont pay enough taxes are wrong. The 10%ers seem to be paying plenty of taxes.

Thoughts?

Given the fact that they have 99% of the wealth I would say they should pay 99% of the taxes. That would be a good start, but still not nearly enough in my opinion.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


JPZ, I have to disagree.

Overtime pay is just the same as regular pay. Instead of thinking of it as overtime, think of it as adjusting your entire hourly wage.

For this example, let's say you make $20 an hour. So a 40 hour week gets you 800 dollars. If you put in 30 hours of overtime at time and a half, you get an extra $900...to total $1700. So effectively you have made $24.28 dollars per hour. It's nice to think that those extra hours you are making $30 an hour...but you are really just adding to your annual total.

At the end of the year, it doesn't matter if the income comes from regular hours or overtime. In the above scenario, if you work 30 hours overtime each week...you will pay the same amount of taxes at your $20 an hour job as someone who makes $42.50 per hour.

So in your head you are expecting to be making $30 an hour for that overtime...but regardless of taxes...you are only making $24.28 an hour for that week.

So no...that overtime pay isn't taxed more than any other dollar you earn. If overtime pushes you into a higher tax bracket, then the money over that limit will be taxed higher...but at the end of the day you would still have made more money than if you didn't work overtime.

reply to post by sirhumperdink


FYI everything works not in a way we do but they work in a way or another that benefits us or nature in general (plants work and provide oxygen, clean up the carbon, sheeps work by reproducing and by producing wool) It was a metaphor and please enlighten me on how this "bad argument" allows the people in power to continue to do what they do to us? Ignorance is the reason my friend not "bad arguments". so as you would like to say, yours sir is a "bad argument"!

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


My friend, you can disagree all you like, what I am telling you is that when I worked for 40 hours a week - I was paid a commission - I generally made $1000 a week and generally paid roughly 30% in state and federal taxes. When I doubled that amount in one week I paid nearly 50% in taxes. That increase ensured I would never work those kind of hours again...not under those conditions.

There is no way in hell anyone is going to convince me that those extra 30 hours I worked that week made me one of the "rich" who "only got that wealth off of the backs of the poor" and I "enjoy more of the system" because of my one week advantage and so I "have to pay more".