Dolan and Alexander - The Great UFO Coverup Debate

The US government has a special body for some of the stupidest subjects that one could imagine, what would make you think that they don't have one for the very important subject of UFO's?? If you believe that our military industrial complex is not interested in this subject you would be fooling yourself, this is not my opinion, this is based on fact. We have decades of documents that clearly show government interest in this subject, along with groups specially formed by our United States government to research these phenomenon. Some of you make me laugh, your skulls must be 5 inch's thick, our government doesn't tell the truth about anything, what would make you think that they would be forthcoming when it comes to a subject that clearly deals with an issue of national security?? WAKE UP, this subject clearly deals with something that is way beyond our understanding, what would make you believe that the worlds largest super power would have no interest in this?? Because they said so??LOL. You must be kidding me.

Richard Dolan's Tin Foil Hat is my review of Dolan's research. Naturally, he does not like it. He has everyone in the UFO foeld believing he is an academic researcher. he does have a legit Master's degree in history. Insofar as that is notable and noteworthy, so be it. But his research, IMO, is not up to academic standards.

Originally posted by schuyler
Richard Dolan's Tin Foil Hat is my review of Dolan's research. Naturally, he does not like it. He has everyone in the UFO foeld believing he is an academic researcher. he does have a legit Master's degree in history. Insofar as that is notable and noteworthy, so be it. But his research, IMO, is not up to academic standards.

Bravo! I haven't read Dolan's boring books but you'll notice that my comments stated in this thread and in others where Dolan's name pops up are reflected almost word for word in your critique. One doesn't need to be a rocket scientist to write similar critiques about Dolan and almost all other popular UFO books authors. They copy from each other and since there is nothing new in UFOlogy you're bound to see the same material appear in most books with perhaps a little bit of creative editing to set them apart from the others.' And, of course, the majority of UFO/Aliens/ETs books are written by believers so the skeptical POV is hardly represented.

The bottom line regarding Dolan, et al, is "been there, done that".

reply to post by schuyler


I like Dolan but thought that was a good read, thanks. Was looking forward to reading some comments on what you wrote there but couldn't seem to find any, thought some of the responses could've been quite funny, especially if you had to converse with fanboys, etc.

I'd prefer to think of him as a good researcher that has some slightly weird views on things and not put him on a pedestal, would be cool if more of the fanboys/girls, etc, did the same, it might push him into researching more instead of maybe appealing to them and make him a better Ufologist. (because I think if he tried as hard as he could and didn't get carried away he could be one of the best in the future.)

So did anyone record the debate?

Can't find anything so far but did this from last year:

reply to post by Zcustosmorum


Awesome, thanks, will check that out later on.

Originally posted by The Shrike

Originally posted by schuyler
Richard Dolan's Tin Foil Hat is my review of Dolan's research. Naturally, he does not like it. He has everyone in the UFO foeld believing he is an academic researcher. he does have a legit Master's degree in history. Insofar as that is notable and noteworthy, so be it. But his research, IMO, is not up to academic standards.

Bravo! I haven't read Dolan's boring books but you'll notice that my comments stated in this thread and in others where Dolan's name pops up are reflected almost word for word in your critique. One doesn't need to be a rocket scientist to write similar critiques about Dolan and almost all other popular UFO books authors. They copy from each other and since there is nothing new in UFOlogy you're bound to see the same material appear in most books with perhaps a little bit of creative editing to set them apart from the others.' And, of course, the majority of UFO/Aliens/ETs books are written by believers so the skeptical POV is hardly represented.

The bottom line regarding Dolan, et al, is "been there, done that".

I totally agree about the critique of Dolan. I was very disappointed when I read his book, because it seemed like he included too many paranoid ideas.

I am curious what you mean about nothing new happening in UFOs. I've been reading "Unconventional Flying Objects" by Paul Hill. I'm struck by how ufology seems to have gone downhill since that book was written. The UFO sightings seem more delusional today and the researchers seem to be entertainers.

Drum roll, it's up:

Originally posted by cloudyday

Originally posted by The Shrike

Originally posted by schuyler
Richard Dolan's Tin Foil Hat is my review of Dolan's research. Naturally, he does not like it. He has everyone in the UFO foeld believing he is an academic researcher. he does have a legit Master's degree in history. Insofar as that is notable and noteworthy, so be it. But his research, IMO, is not up to academic standards.

Bravo! I haven't read Dolan's boring books but you'll notice that my comments stated in this thread and in others where Dolan's name pops up are reflected almost word for word in your critique. One doesn't need to be a rocket scientist to write similar critiques about Dolan and almost all other popular UFO books authors. They copy from each other and since there is nothing new in UFOlogy you're bound to see the same material appear in most books with perhaps a little bit of creative editing to set them apart from the others.' And, of course, the majority of UFO/Aliens/ETs books are written by believers so the skeptical POV is hardly represented.

The bottom line regarding Dolan, et al, is "been there, done that".

I totally agree about the critique of Dolan. I was very disappointed when I read his book, because it seemed like he included too many paranoid ideas.

I am curious what you mean about nothing new happening in UFOs. I've been reading "Unconventional Flying Objects" by Paul Hill. I'm struck by how ufology seems to have gone downhill since that book was written. The UFO sightings seem more delusional today and the researchers seem to be entertainers.

edit on 23-2-2012 by cloudyday because: (no reason given)

I got involved with UFOs in 1957. I'm aware of everything that has happened since then. The only changes I've seen is that the hoaxers, Adamski quality, have dropped by the wayside and replaced by computer hoaxers. UFO reports now don't differ from UFO reports then. Then, it was an occasional photo and a rare film. Photography took a leap with smaller film cameras and then digital cameras. Now almost everyone is carrrying a camera or they have a cell phone with a camera. Cell phone cameras have improved in quality and are better than some of the early, low megapixel cameras.

But the images that we see in all of their variety are still of unknown objects, when hoaxes and CGI are ruled out. UFOs are still as elusive as ever and no one has any inside information regardless of who makes claims and what they claim.

Nothing new.

Originally posted by Orkojoker
reply to post by karl 12

 

Thanks for the link, karl. I'll give it a look. Dolan's National Security State series is high on my own list of must-read UFO lit. I'm looking forward to volume III.

Same here mate -here's a good free E-book link for Volume One:

Richard M. Dolan is a gifted historian whose study of U.S. Cold War strategy led him to the broader context of increased security measures and secrecy since World War II. One aspect of such government policies that has continued to hold the public's imagination for over half a century is the question of unidentified flying objects.

UFOs and the National Security State is the first volume of a two-part detailed chronological narrative of the national security dimensions of the UFO phenomenon from 1941 to the present. Working from hundreds of declassified records and other primary and secondary sources, Dolan centers his investigation on the American military and intelligence communities, demonstrating that they take UFOs seriously indeed.

link

Cheers.

vary nice hers a few more clips with alexander in it

reply to post by Zcustosmorum


Thanks a bunch. You the man, or woman, whichever the case may be.

Hello all Jamie Havican Here just got around to making an account here at ATS anyone who wants the link to the debate it is www.abovetopsecret.com... and in the future if anyone needs anything related to IRN let me know.

Originally posted by discharged77
The US government has a special body for some of the stupidest subjects that one could imagine, what would make you think that they don't have one for the very important subject of UFO's?? If you believe that our military industrial complex is not interested in this subject you would be fooling yourself, this is not my opinion, this is based on fact. .....

My own investigations have revealed plenty of good reasons for US intelligence agencies to be interested in 'UFO reports' regardless of the authenticity of any extraordi9nary phenomena behind them -- precisely BECAUSE they are not 'alien spaceships'. Especially in the soviet union, famous 'UFO reports' were being caused by secret Soviet military missile and space events, from at least the mid-1960s and probably before. And popular articles about these UFOs provided important technical details on the performance parameters of the activities that Moscow was trying to keep secret.

UFO reports from Russia in the late 1950s seem to have been helpful in keeping track of CIA 'Moby Dick' photo recon balloons.

Since the mid-1960s, Soviet satellite crashes and resulting hardware recoveries were also very valuable sources of material that allowed assessment of the Soviet space industry.

So -- OF COURSE the relevant agencies wanted to obtain such popular 'UFO reports' as soon as possible. And since they were a window into Soviet secrecy, they wanted their exploitation of such reports to remain unrealized by Moscow.

Now -- what does this interest prove about 'true UFOs'?

Nothing, I'm afraid.

PS: I also knew a young officer at Kirtland AFB working in 'Broken Arrow' training exercises who in the 1971-2 time period in the western states, was using 'recovering a crashed flying saucer' as a cover story with local law enforcement units who provided perimeter security for the exercises [he never had to go find a real lost nuke, as far as i knew]. This was an 'ad hoc' gimmick he invented, but i doubt he was the only one to think of it.

reply to post by Orkojoker
The government is always 'covering up' UFO matters, as they do with just about everything in our lives, because they can...they stamp Top Secret on anything, delay the opening of presidential papers for years, hide what is in food, etc. but not as a unified, "official" cover-up,..CIA, FBI, NASA & all the others do cover-ups 'in house'.

Still, Richard Dolan is correct. He has focused on the only "UFO cover-up" that is not only an official UFO cover-up...it is global! And that is his alternative space program theory. That is why Mr. Space expert & NASA UFO Skeptic, Jim Oberg is lurking about, posting on this thread!

The public believes NASA is using the most advanced technology, applied to space travel. Dolan, myself & a growing research effort globally, believe NASA is a decoy acting as an illusion to satisfy the billions of public tax money being spent....while the real, superior advanced alternative space program is sequestered for the use of a secret, invisible elite...who have already sent manned flights to all the planets & have bases on the Moon & Mars.

The best way to access Dolan's evidence is to use You Tube, & listen to his space lectures. They contain a little more than just repeated old stuff, as some here are suggesting...(based on the 10 min UFO lesson that was also posted)

For me there is zero doubt that the evidence I captured ON MY COLLECTION OF NASA VIDEOS, suggests UFOs!! There are over 300 NASA UFO clips posted on my Martyn Stubbs You Tube Channel for all to see. NASA cameras, showing UFOs, doing unimaginable things (angular turns & hyper-velocity speeds). It is clear that someone is already using advanced propulsion systems...but who?

Richard Dolan tells us who that is & backs it up with amazing research!

Glad to see Martyn is still present on this world in the flesh. A lot of people, of all opinions, had grown concerned for his health. It would be a far duller planet without him and his amazing ideas.