When do conspiracies become harmful?

I'm not sure if this will qualify as a rant, so feel free to move it mods if you feel it's necessary.

I've lurked ATS for years, and have seen numerous topics come up. Fear mongering is rampant, and I've often found myself wondering if some people are just flat out paranoid or mentally ill. Now, please, don't get me wrong, I love a good conspiracy. I believe the government is definitely shady in a lot of what it does, and there is a lot of deception. One must wonder however, when do too many conspiracy theories become harmful? I've seen topics on this board that I think are completely ridiculous, and there are those who legitimately believe them. I completely understand that everyone has the right to believe what they'd like, we all have unique and interesting views. It's when individuals begin spreading disinformation that it becomes a problem, when a conspiracy with little to no evidence makes people afraid or accept it as the truth. What good does that do?

I suppose denying ignorance isn't always something that can be done. Some people enjoying fear-mongering, some are trolls, and some are just flat out mentally ill or uninformed. Either way, I've seen preposterous threads get extreme amounts of attention, while good threads with a legitimate (though maybe not as "exciting") plethora of evidence to suggest a conspiracy are left untouched.

reply to post by ofNight


you ever hear of Jared Lee Loughner or Jeff Weise both former members of ats both killed many people

heres some links
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by ofNight


I think it is dangerous, just when you say it becomes dangerous--when people begin forgetting about "denying ignorance". Anything is dangerous when you are uninformed about it..

reply to post by ofNight


When you start thinking "almost everything" has a conspiracy behind it...

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by ofNight

 

When you start thinking "almost everything" has a conspiracy behind it...

Your post.. it's.. it's.. a CONSPIRAAAAAACY!

In regards to what some of the other posters mentioned, yes, it can definitely be taken too far, as seen in the two killers. I think both were obviously incredibly mentally ill, and I'd say it wouldn't be an unreasonable speculation to believe that some conspiracies these individuals may have believed in depth may have contributed to their actions in whatever form. First and foremostly, however, they were mentally ill, and you don't need a conspiracy theory to make a delusional person believe the world is out to get them -- and "fight back", unfortunately.

Originally posted by TheGuyFawkes
reply to post by ofNight

 

you ever hear of Jared Lee Loughner or Jeff Weise both former members of ats both killed many people

heres some links
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit on 18-2-2012 by TheGuyFawkes because: links

what ever you post on ats, is public record. how anonymous is it if the identity of these two people was figured out.

two mass murderers posted on this website. if you don't think ats is monitored by the f.b.i., c.i.a or that moderators and the site owners where not contacted to report dangerous posts or something that is an imminent threat is naive.

the flip side is that you, as an ats member, can use this site to let them know that you know.

be it from the corruption and hypocrisy of the government, or the hundreds of thousands of u.f.o sightings that have been reported around the world by normal, respectable people.

reply to post by ofNight


i agree both were mentally unstable just by looking at some of the things wiese posted, yeah something was wrong with that kid it probably didn't help that he lost both of his parents either and people picked on him he was a ticking time bomb if u ask me, i think ats could have been what set him off though

Most of the rediculous conspiracy stuff is started by those that want to controll us. Why? Because those who are on the fence read those posts and think we're ALL a bunch of nutters.

Thats the purpose of A Jones and those like him. They tell the truth but behave like a nut job.

reply to post by randomname


anybody ever hear of the ats is a conspiracy conspiracy? possibly a conintel pro set up by the govt. or just a site monitored and ran by the freemasons

link
www.atlanteanconspiracy.com...

I could also take a different route and say that self-deception is harmful, obviously, for various reasons. Even if someone doesn't hurt others based on their beliefs, they're still not doing themselves any favors.

Occam's razor doesn't seem to be as common on ATS as one would think.

reply to post by ofNight



external image

pic related ha still havnt figured out how to embed images yet

reply to post by ofNight


I don't think it ever becomes dangerous.

If someone has the ability to develop a conspiracy theory, obviously that person is at least a little informed about that subject they are questioning. I'd say the majority of people are clueless to the fact that stuff is happening around them at all. So 1 - most people don't even know the story at all and 2- most people don't have a mind smart enough to analyze and develop an alternate reason or theory. Humans have lost the ability to analyze information. We even see this is schools. The material is mostly memorized and regurgitated. There isn't much conceptual application being learned.

I'd much rather there be millions of conspiracy theorists with fully functional brain synapses then have millions of clueless people out there who are solely dependent on the thoughts and information provided to them.

Working, creative minds are what we need. Regardless of how "out there" they are.

They are only harmful when they are true and there's nothing anyone can do about it.There hasn't been any good conspiracies in a while.

Some people are just bat ship crazy anyways.If it wasn't conspiracies it would be something else like real life.

Let's cut to the chase. Above Top Secret is popular entertainment, nothing more. And for the most part, it is fictional entertainment. Anyone who believes that ATS is exposing actual conspiracies is naive or deluded.

It seems obvious that the majority of ATS regulars, the ones who spend hours a day on the site, are socially malajusted people, and quite a few are genuinely insane. The basic premises of ATS are a great big lantern that attracts crazies like moths, so this should not surprise us.

It is certainly true that the credulousness of the majority sometimes reinforces the madness of the minority here on ATS. Sometimes this may be enough to tip one of the more unstable members over the edge, and then we end up with murder or a suicide or some other real-world tragedy. But people who are unstable enough to be set off on a psychotic episode by ATS are people who were probably going to lose their grip sooner or later anyway. If ATS didn't get them going, something else would have. You can't blame ATS for crazy folks' behaviour, though you could accuse the site owners of profound cynicism and a degree of social irresponsibility for setting up a business that basically makes money off the insane while reinforcing their delusions. If there is a real 'ATS conspiracy' to be discussed, that is it.

But though it may not add to the number of lunatics with guns running about the place, ATS does real harm all the same. It does so by facilitating the spread of alternative medical and psychological practices that actively harm people and society. The antipathy towards vaccination that is spread on this and other internet sites has the potential to cause plagues and epidemics. The quack remedies for body and soul that are promoted by member threads must cause a great deal of harm to the people who read about them here, believe what they read and try to put it into practice. I wonder how many ATS members have harmed themselves and their families in this way. Dozens, perhaps even hundreds, I imagine.

And of course, a great many fascists, homophobes, racists and bigots of all kinds use ATS as a means to spread their poison.

Finally, ATS adds much to the misery of those who are committed believers in paranormal powers, alien abductions, and so on. It is particularly dangerous, I think, to paranoid schizophrenics, the kind who believe that they are being shadowed by the CIA, or MK-Ultra, or aliens, or whoever. All these unhappy folk will find much to reinforce their delusions here on ATS.

Conspiracy theories are very different from the very real conspiracies that do exist in the world. They are urban legends, fantasies and hoaxes. Such, for the most part, is the staple diet of ATS.

Personally, I believe that the entertainment industry is the source of most of the evil in today's world. Within that industry I include not just the things you'd expect but also the pornography of violence and sensationalism that is modern-day news reporting, modern American Christianity and New Age 'spiritualism', etc. ATS, being part of the entertainment industry, partakes of its nastiness.

As do we, by giving our patronage to it.

reply to post by Astyanax

The quack remedies for body and soul that are promoted by member threads must cause a great deal of harm to the people who read about them here, believe what they read and try to put it into practice. I wonder how many ATS members have harmed themselves and their families in this way.

Can you provide your medical credentials? How can eating herbs as a remedy possibly harm someone? You actually condone taking every vaccine the government promotes? Well, this certainly would explain what it wrong with your train of thought on here. Lets all poison our bodies for no reason. Lets give our children more man made vaccines because mothers don't breast feed as much. Yes, that sounds just great.

My advice to you...and this will solve all your problems. Get off ATS. Get on CNN. Get on the FOX forum.

Originally posted by fictitious
reply to post by Astyanax

 

The quack remedies for body and soul that are promoted by member threads must cause a great deal of harm to the people who read about them here, believe what they read and try to put it into practice. I wonder how many ATS members have harmed themselves and their families in this way.

Can you provide your medical credentials? How can eating herbs as a remedy possibly harm someone? You actually condone taking every vaccine the government promotes? Well, this certainly would explain what it wrong with your train of thought on here. Lets all poison our bodies for no reason. Lets give our children more man made vaccines because mothers don't breast feed as much. Yes, that sounds just great.

My advice to you...and this will solve all your problems. Get off ATS. Get on CNN. Get on the FOX forum.

Colloidal silver comes to mind. (use the search function if you're interested).

Not only can it turn you blue, but a wrong dosage can cause seizures, kidney damage, and neurological damage. Telling someone to go chug some colloidal silver because it's "healing" (when there is no scientific proof of such) can not only be dangerous, but deadly.

reply to post by ofNight


Colloidal Silver is highly functional when taken correctly and in the correct dosage. Do you realize that almost 100% of prescription drugs can cause death when taken incorrectly. Likewise, if you down a whole bottle of Advil because you have a bad headache, you will certainly die.

Oh, but the FDA backs it, so it must be safe! Sometimes I shake my head at the foolishness of people who say some natural remedy can hurt more than they help. The same is exactly true of all FDA backed drugs. Maybe not aspirin, but that's all the comes to mind.

Birth control pills CAN cause deadly blood clots and kill you. Colloidal silver CAN cause damage to your kidneys. Advil CAN cause liver failure. Vicodin CAN cause people to breathe abnormally and have heart palpitations.

Too much water can kill you. Too much protein can cause protein poisoning and kill you. Whenever you take anything at all, you are taking a gamble. Don't bash "alternative" treatments. Many "medical" treatments are just old "alternative" ones that have been now patented. Eating willow bark thins your blood....oh yeah, that's aspirin.

reply to post by TheGuyFawkes

Ops, replied to wrong post. I wanted to reply to the OP.

When do conspiracies become harmful?

They become harmful when you are on the receiving end of a conspiracy and other people conspire against you.

As far as theorizing about conspiracies go - too much thinking about doom and gloom doesn't make you happy. The same is true if you know about criminal wrongdoings and can't do anything against it.

There are some conspiracy theories which are more harmful than others and have ruined or cost millions of lives. Dangerous conspiracy theories are not those which are believed by some fringe elements of society. It are those which are pushed by governments and the MSM. Here are some examples:

• Iraq has WMDs and Saddam is harbouring terrorists and is a danger to the free world. His agents met Mohammed Atta in Prague and gave him anthrax. Let's attack Iraq.
  
• Iran is developing a nuclear weapon and wants to use it against Israel. Let's make a preemptive attack.
  
• If one Asian country falls to communism, all others will follow in a domino effect. Let's militarily intervene wherever we can.
  
• People who hold different believes and want more social equality are traitors and communist subversives who plot against the USA (McCarthyism). Let's monitor them and destroy their lives.
  
• North Vietnam is attacking the USS Maddox in the Gulf of Tonkin. Let's go to war against North Vietnam.
  
• The USS Maine was sunk by a Spanish mine in a sneak attack. Let's go to war against Spain.
  
• Gaddafi is giving Viagra to his soldiers, has hired thousands of African mercenaries and is using his air force to bomb Libyan cities. We must stop him.
  
• There is a liberal bias in the media. There is a pro-establishment, pro-corporate bias in the media. Alternative voices like anti war protesters and civil rights advocates are rarely given time. Therefore laws and developments which brought more inequality, wars, surveillance, imprisonment for petty crimes could be pushed through without much resistance. If you don't know the relevant facts and have knowledge about difference approaches to a problem, you are likely to believe the TINA absurdity (there is no alternative).
  

Originally posted by fictitious
reply to post by ofNight

 

Colloidal Silver is highly functional when taken correctly and in the correct dosage. Do you realize that almost 100% of prescription drugs can cause death when taken incorrectly. Likewise, if you down a whole bottle of Advil because you have a bad headache, you will certainly die.

Oh, but the FDA backs it, so it must be safe! Sometimes I shake my head at the foolishness of people who say some natural remedy can hurt more than they help. The same is exactly true of all FDA backed drugs. Maybe not aspirin, but that's all the comes to mind.

Birth control pills CAN cause deadly blood clots and kill you. Colloidal silver CAN cause damage to your kidneys. Advil CAN cause liver failure. Vicodin CAN cause people to breathe abnormally and have heart palpitations.

Too much water can kill you. Too much protein can cause protein poisoning and kill you. Whenever you take anything at all, you are taking a gamble. Don't bash "alternative" treatments. Many "medical" treatments are just old "alternative" ones that have been now patented. Eating willow bark thins your blood....oh yeah, that's aspirin.

Pointing out that an inadequate dosage of colloidal silver can be dangerous isn't bashing alternative treatments.

Plenty of "natural" things can kill you if misused or improperly dosed. You proved my point. It's no different with "old" or "new" remedies -- all can be potentially dangerous.

or maybe you will get an A in psychology