Why the hatred for the UN?

Some people don't like the UN because they are scared and insecure. Just like they hate France. Anyone, in their mind, that disagrees with the US or who will say the US is wrong, is evil.

Scared of the UN and France you have to be kidding the UN is the biggest toothless tigers out there. Both of them have a bark that is alot worst then their bite

Originally posted by RedOctober90

Yes it is true that the UN likes to use our troops on occasion,
[edit on 19-9-2004 by RedOctober90]

[edit on 19-9-2004 by RedOctober90]

on ocassion? the US has sent the most troops in every UN operation theres ever been. hell when the UN went tino smolia it was the US and the pakastanis. the UN is furthering europe's little agenda with the blood of american soldiers.

Firstly it is the US's right to pay whatever it wants. I just wanted to point out that the US doesn't pay for most of the running of the UN, it is the largest contributor.

Also, you go on how much the UN needs the US, which is true the UN needs the US because the US is a big powerful country. However the US needs the UN as can be seen by the whole debacle in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Americans come begging to NATO and the UN for troops and support to clean up the mess our countries made in Iraq.

thanks,
drfunk

What should replace the UN then?
It may be ineffective but its better then the alternative.
If the police in your city are corrupt you dont disband the police you work from te inside and clean house.
Honestly i dont really care about "sovereignty" that much. I dont think its as big a deal as people let on. Its no more of a big deal to me then giving up "sovereignty" to the police in my city.
Im not talking about giving up freedoms or anything I just dont see how a strong UN threatens America.

Drfunk says,

However the US needs the UN as can be seen by the whole debacle in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Americans come begging to NATO and the UN for troops and support to clean up the mess our countries made in Iraq.

This situation that you describe is hardly a USA need or begging.
Asking the UN to actually ENFORCE a decade of sanctions against Iraq, and their refusal to even come close to passing a sanction with consequences exemplifies the UN's inabillity to be effective at more than lip service. The only ones in need here is the UN...they needed to act and didnt.

You would think that so many of these countries would be asking to offer help in Iraq, to help secure a peace more quickly and alieve suffering there...but where are they? They are hiding from this honorable pursuit instead willing to only sit back, do nothing and point the "bad USA" finger.
Pathetic and worthless is no way to go thru life.
The USA put countries on notice BEFORE the war....either offer to help or dont expect a slice of pie AFTER the fact....again, this is a test of the world/UN/ individule countries commitments to the global security, and stabillity issues that are prevalent. The fact that the UN hasnt come forward is another indication that either they as an organization are powerless, or the countries that participate will only do so if its conveniant.

Hell Saddam knew the UN was never going to actually DO something about him...he's known for over a decade....he probably thought the USA wouldnt actually snub the UN and come get him....big mistake.

While the UN is a good IDEA, its practice leaves alot to be desired.

Basically people in the US hate the UN because it is a threat to their world dominance, and the US doesnt like helping other countries out unless it involves helping them by killing their populace. The US doesnt want to help financially unstable countries because these countries provide cheap labour for the corporations to exploit.

As for the UN running to the USA for help all the time... who ran to the UN for help when they realised that Iraq was a mess and they couldnt possibly stabilise the country... despite the fact the UN told them not to go in?... hmmm i think you know the answer.

The UN has made mistakes in the past and i dont agree with everyhing they do... but i would sleep better at night knowing the UN was the major power in the world than knowing the USA is. At least the UN explores other avenues before it bombs the crap out of a country...

Originally posted by boogyman
What should replace the UN then?

I dont think it should be replaced as much as rebuilt from the ground up. The basic concept is a good one but it gets lost somewhere along the way.

Look at the League of nations is was orginally created "To promote international co-operation and to achieve international peace and security." What great and noble goals but look where that got the League of nations.

The UN also had some noble goals but its corruption and ineffectiveness are sending it down the same road as the League of nations.

S-asianx claims,

Basically people in the US hate the UN because it is a threat to their world dominance

Now how in the heck could that be when the UN cant even threaten Saddam Hussain effectivly? Whats to fear from a toothless organization like the UN? What a total fiction....we in the states arent worried about the UN surpassing us at all...not only is that highly unlikley, but we're not really that concerned with dominating to start with.

S-asianx rants again with,

the US doesnt like helping other countries out unless it involves helping them by killing their populace.

Ok, enough LIES here...the USA has and does give away more aid than some entire nations are worth, and it almost always does NOT involve killing populace to get. So im sure we can find some site to link to that will total up the billions in aid the USA has provided the world, and ill bet it wont substantiate this blood thirsty image that the anti USA people are trying to place upon us.

s-asian twists reality to bash the USA here,

As for the UN running to the USA for help all the time... who ran to the UN for help when they realised that Iraq was a mess and they couldnt possibly stabilise the country... despite the fact the UN told them not to go in?... hmmm i think you know the answer.

I dont think that requesting that the UN actually DO something to assist instead of just sitting there bellyaching about how "bad" the USA is does NOT qualify as running to get help, it seems like more of a put up or shut up play...again, the UN can only shut up. This AFTER 2 trips to the UN by Bush who only got a toothless, unanimous resolution passed. BEFORE the war..geese, how much hand holding does the UN need to actualy take a stance?

Originally posted by curme
Some people don't like the UN because they are scared and insecure. Just like they hate France. Anyone, in their mind, that disagrees with the US or who will say the US is wrong, is evil.

Some people love the UN because they are scared and insecure. Just like they love France. Anyone, in their mind, that agrees with the US or who will say the US is right, is evil.

Sadly, some of the pathetic individuals are members of our own armed forces.

Why should the UN help the USA in Iraq (except for the obvious moral reasons)... If the USA had stayed out of Iraq like the UN told them to do, it would be a stable country.

The USA went in against the UNs advice and now they realise they can't handle it and are runnign back to the UN for help. The UN should tell the USA they will help but all contracts the USA has in Iraq have to be cancelled and the UN can negotiate the new contracts, that way its not the US firms that benefit from the Invasion, but (hopefully) local Iraqi contractors. The UN weapons inspectors led by Hans Blix were succesfull in making sure Iraq had no WMDs (as proven by the invasion desiged to prove the exact opposite)... if the US would co-operate withthe UN a little more, the UNS job wouldnt be so hard and its actions would more effective.

Originally posted by specialasianX
Basically people in the US hate the UN because it is a threat to their world dominance, and the US doesnt like helping other countries out unless it involves helping them by killing their populace. The US doesnt want to help financially unstable countries because these countries provide cheap labour for the corporations to exploit.

What a load of anti-American crap.

As for the UN running to the USA for help all the time... who ran to the UN for help when they realised that Iraq was a mess and they couldnt possibly stabilise the country... despite the fact the UN told them not to go in?... hmmm i think you know the answer.

The facts are, France and Germany would never have voted with us because they were up to their necks in blood money deals with Saddam, deals that cost them big time.

And, just how many UN 'peace keeping' forces are in Iraq right now?

The UN has made mistakes in the past and i dont agree with everyhing they do... but i would sleep better at night knowing the UN was the major power in the world than knowing the USA is. At least the UN explores other avenues before it bombs the crap out of a country...

Yes, they try the impossible, like getting every corrupt government to agree before they make a decision.

The UN should tell the USA they will help but all contracts the USA has in Iraq have to be cancelled and the UN can negotiate the new contracts, that way its not the US firms that benefit from the Invasion, but (hopefully) local Iraqi contractors.

Like the way they handled the Oil For Food contracts?

As for sleeping well at night, try warm milk or counting Kofi sheeple.



[edit on 21-9-2004 by jsobecky]

And Kofi sheeple are worse than Bush sheeple how?

No matter how many mistakes the UN has made in the past, the US has made more, and the mistake the US makes tend to cost alot more lives. The Un is the closest thing to global democracy we have achieved... isnt the US some knight in shining armour trying to advocate democracy? Oh thats right, the US only want democracy that favours its own interests not that of the world

Because the UN is a corrupt, no backbone, wasteful, bloated P.O.S.


IMHO

Asian X asks,

Why should the UN help the USA in Iraq (except for the obvious moral reasons).

Umm ok, so standing up for your countries morality by supporting humanitarian issues in Iraq is NOT as important as disagreeing with USA policy there? What kind of skewed up morals are those? Politics is more important to other UN members than providing humanitarian and security assistance? Yet another reason the UN has its head up its collective wazoo.

Asian X continues defense of the UN with,

If the USA had stayed out of Iraq like the UN told them to do, it would be a stable country.

Hmm a stable country you say? You mean one where the dictator kept "stabillity" by violating human rights constantly...burrying hundreds of thousands of countrymen because they disagreed? (rule thru fear)....or how about the stable country that attacked 4 of its neighbors and constantly threatened further agression...(Iran, Quwait, Saudi's and Israel.)
With this kind of stabillity there, its no wonder the entire region is in its state of disarray now. Iraq has NEVER been a stabalizing force in the region.

Asian X continues to worship the UN,

The USA went in against the UNs advice and now they realise they can't handle it and are runnign back to the UN for help.

PLEASE spare me this total drivel....We hardly need nor desire to "run" to the UN, in fact...AGAIN for those of you that dont actually READ what is typed before your eyes....THE UN NEEDS TO GET OFF ITS BUTT AND DO SOMETHING!!!! Comming back to the UN and requesting that it actually STAND UP for its "morals" and help people is only asking them to do what they SAY the are there for. For the UN to continue to do NOTHING only makes them look more and more weak and incapable, not less.
Bush has made 4 trips to the UN to request they take action, and every time NOTHING was done....Yet you expect us to continue to ask for help that has not been offered before or after ther war?

Asian X makes arrogant demmands here,

The UN should tell the USA they will help but all contracts the USA has in Iraq have to be cancelled and the UN can negotiate the new contracts, that way its not the US firms that benefit from the Invasion, but (hopefully) local Iraqi contractors.

First of all, The USA is correct in saying that if your not willing to do the hard work, then you dont get to reap the rewards of it. When you spill the bloodof your soldiersin order to help keep the peace, then youve earned the right to get to profit. This was no secret and the President pretty much said so BEFORE the war......what arrogance to say to the USA..."you went against the UN, but now the UN wants to play with you." If the UN wanted to play, they have been offered MANY chances, yet refused. Until they start doing positive things, they dont deserve any chance to muck things up more (hint hint FOOD FOR OIL...)
As far as Iraqi contractors, while im sure they will get to do as much work as possible...some of them/companies dont have near the capasity to do some of the things that need to happen, and out sourcing is the only option for these situations.

Asian X concludes,

The UN weapons inspectors led by Hans Blix were succesfull in making sure Iraq had no WMDs (as proven by the invasion desiged to prove the exact opposite)... if the US would co-operate withthe UN a little more, the UNS job wouldnt be so hard and its actions would more effective.

With the shell game of hide and seek that Iraq was playing, how could the world community know THEN, when most world intelligence was pointing at Iraq for this activity, (and passed a final toothless, unanimous resolution stating this) that UN inspectors were able to make sure of anything? Now after the fact. when the WMD's have not been found en-mass...we still say a little more time would have PROVEN there was no weapons? All saddam had to do was cooperate FULLY and without conditions to the UN demands, and we would have known and not been left wondering thru the hide and seek game IF the WMD's were there or not.

DO NOT try to blame the USA for Saddam's refusal to comply with the vaunted UN resolutions...Hell, Saddam violated the UN terms of the cease fire by shooting at coalition aircraft patrolling the no fly zone constantly....He violated the UN resolutions calling for full compliance....these 2 things ALONE should have been enough for the UN to have cracked down on him at least 5 yrs ago....But AGAIN, the UN has no teeth, they are unwilling/able to enforce their own sanctions...and with players like France and Germany behind the scenes secretly scamming thru the food for oil rippoff, whay would they have wanted to give up anything they had going on in Iraq? Hmm, non commital and corrupt...yet this is where Americans are to put their trust? Doesnt the question of "where are the WMD's now?" worry you more than the fact that they havnt been accounted for? After 10 years of shell game in Iraq, how many more months were going to actually get results the world/UN were looking for?

The Un is incapable of doing what the USA did, and lesser member nations are jealous that the USA can and did, as well as that their vainted UN isnt giving them as much as they'd like.
I cant wait till Kofi Annan is out of office in the UN.

[edit on 22-9-2004 by CazMedia]

Caz, I'm not even going to bother answering most of your response as it has been said time and time again and i completly disagree with alot of it...

But as for the UN not being able to do what the USA did in Iraq, i agree... There is no way anyone else could've made such a mess of the situation as the USA did...

And the UN were there to help... untill their HQ got bombed... Why was the HQ bombed? Coz people were pissed off that the USA had invaded.

I never said the region was stable i said Iraq was stable. The region isnt unstable only because of Saddam... In fact the USA is responsible for alot of the instability in the region due to its foreign policy. In fact most of the instability currently in the reigon is directly due to the US and its foreign policy.

And keep in mind who backed Iraq in its Invasion of Iraq, and also who gave Iraq its WMD's when it did have them... Its another classic case of the USA arming a tyrant to his teeth then acting like the global hero by trying to take their gifts away

Asian X says,

Caz, I'm not even going to bother answering most of your response as it has been said time and time again and i completly disagree with alot of it...

Avoidance of the issue will not make it go away nor does it justify your views. It adds nothing for consideration.
Whatever you try and paint the UN with to make it look good won't erase the stentch of the corruption and ineptitude within this organization.

Asian X loses faith in humanity here,

But as for the UN not being able to do what the USA did in Iraq, i agree... There is no way anyone else could've made such a mess of the situation as the USA did...

Ohh you underestimate the abillity of humans to make an equal or greater form of mess than you say is Iraq.

Asian x is partially correct here,

The region isnt unstable only because of Saddam... In fact the USA is responsible for alot of the instability in the region due to its foreign policy. In fact most of the instability currently in the reigon is directly due to the US and its foreign policy.

Ohh you mean the forign policy where the USA stood up and told the arab states..."We will not allow genocide against the jews."
Are you in favor of jewish genocide? because thats were the bottom line of the issue is...the arabs want to kill all jews and this should concren those at the UN more than what the USA and others have tried do.
The USA might have contributed to some of the instabillity inthe region...but noone made saddam attack his neighbors but saddam....so the USA is responsible for the arabs hating the jews now too eh?

No the Arabs hate the Jews because they came in and settled on their land, then kicked them out, then proceeded to take more land, and make an entire people suffer by forcing them into refugee camps and slaughtering their people. The only reason the Arabs hate Jews is because of the state of Israel and its exsistance... If the Jews had been relocated to the vatican and taken all the land there, i'm sure Catholics wouldnt be too impressed.

And the US is responsible partially for the Arabs hating the Jews in the sense that the US continues to support Israels oppresion of the palestinian people.

And no iam am not for the genocide of Jews or any other people... i'm not anti-semetic, i'm anti Israel (and yes there is a HUGE difference between the two). I have jewish friends, who happen to dislike Israel just as much as the next guy. If they would make some serious efforts to make peace in the region instead of continually provoking palestinian freedom fighters there would be some serious change in the whole situation.

(And yes i used freedom fighters because i feel Hamas have a legitimate cause and are no more terrorists than Israel or the USA, even if their tactics leave much to be desired)

Asian X needing more history studies says,

the Arabs hate the Jews because they came in and settled on their land, then kicked them out,

History lesson here,
www.mideastweb.org...

Oh you mean this UN resolution? Resolution 181, 1947

After considerable debate, the United Nations General Assembly decided on partition of Palestine into Jewish and Arab states, with Jerusalem to be an internationalized city. The plan enjoyed the warm support of the Soviet Union and its Eastern European satellite governments. Josef Stalin hoped that the new Jewish state would be a bulwark against British imperialism. Owing to the support of President Truman, and despite State Department advice and Department of Defense pressure, the United States likewise supported the partition plan, and ensured its passage.

SO since you support the UN, you must then support Israels right to exist...and hence say that its wrong for the arabs to continuously waste effort to eliminate the jewish state there.

Asian X continues blindly thru history,

then (israel) proceeded to take more land

WHAT?!? ISRAEL has been the victim NOT the aggressor, so would i blame them if they DID take a few spoils of war?
Study more history here,
www.science.co.il...

Arab-Israeli wars
A day after the declaration of independence of the State of Israel, armies of five Arab countries, Egypt, Syria, Transjordan, Lebanon and Iraq, invaded Israel. This marked the beginning of the War of Independence. Arab states have jointly waged four full scale wars against Israel:

1948 War of Independence
1956 Sinai War
1967 Six Day War
1973 Yom Kippur War
Despite the numerical superiority of the Arab armies, Israel defended itself each time and won. After each war Israeli army withdrew from most of the areas it captured (see maps). This is unprecedented in World history and shows Israel's willingness to reach peace even at the risk of fighting for its very existence each time anew.

Asian X blames the USA,

And the US is responsible partially for the Arabs hating the Jews in the sense that the US continues to support Israels oppresion of the palestinian people.

YES, the USA continues to say to the world...no genocide of the jews...blame us for standing up for not exterminating a race.

How many concessions did the Isralies come to the negotiating table with, and how many were rejected...including giving up lands....what have the palestinians ever offer aside from stopping the bloodshed?

The palastinian people now oppress themselves....they have been given lands, legitimized as the right to have their country as long as it lives in peace with israel...they have refused and have not worked dilligently to make palastine a better place, instead they waste time, materials and their own lives to struggle for a scrap of land...instead of building a country that the WORLD would help them recover??? Blind hate programed thru the generations will cause the palastinians more oppression than israel ever would...If only the palastinians could get their OWN crap together and just leave Israel alone...things would improve even if both sides continued to hate each other from either side of the fence.

Get real here, the UN HAS been involved over in the mid east for a long time...Hell how do you think IRAQ came into existance...A UN mandate thats how!!!! But where is the UN now? Shirking its duty and the mess IT made is what it appears....If the UN thought it proper to secure both israel and iraq on paper, then they better be ready to DO something to make sure things go this route, yet WHERE IS THE UN?

Ohh the UN was there helping until their building got blown up....one set back and they turn tail and run? Yeah being blown up isnt good, but mabey if they had some peacekeepers around their compound, it would still be there. Mabey the UN was bombed not because the USA invaded , but because the arabs actually have 2 things to hate the UN for (creating israel and iraq on paper)...aside from its being westernized and generally not condeming the acts of the coalition.

The UN deserves what it gets.....no respect because they havnt earned any.

Originally posted by jsobecky
The facts are, France and Germany would never have voted with us because they were up to their necks in blood money deals with Saddam, deals that cost them big time.

What a load of crap. Jesus. What you define as "up to their necks" is so little money we don't even care about it. Furthermore it wasn't Germany it was some german companies.

I think it's the 8423th time now I have to tell this on this forum. I somehow have the feeling Americans are imune of being corrected.