USA; why should the rest of the world support you?

Originally posted by TheCommentator
No not really but I am intrested in hearing peoples opinions as to gain an understanding why people support such things.

Well no one, but I have a basis for my beliefs and its fairly ignorant to say that the US has actually helped most places because while they help a minority billions suffer.
The countries you speak of are often under the control of the US by installed dictators or suffering famine and poverty from the corrupt monetary system that the US forces them to follow.

Everyone has a basis for their beliefs - otherwise they wouldn't have them!

Isn't it equally as ignorant to completely overlook the significant amounts of money they donate - irrespective or motives - that does end up buying medicine, shelter, food. A tangible result you cannot dispute.

Billions suffer - I presume you mean generally, as you couldn't possibly blame America for the suffering of billions. Well, its hardly fair to expect one country to sort everything out - what about China - the amount of people in that country (with its PROVEN record of civil rights issues and its strict, anti-libertarian agenda) suffering would be hundreds of millions at least. Ditto Russia, India, Brazil...

I didn't name any countries, so not sure how you know which ones I speak of. Given that your statement is unquantifiable (it would be very difficult to prove / disprove the behind the curtain movements a Government may or may not make to ensure a certain candidate is elected) its not really fair or appropriate for you to assume something either way. Suffice to say that very many countries enjoy democratic elections that are largely uncontroversial in their results - so even if there was an American hand in it, it acts in favour of the majority of that country.

Corrupt monetary system? You don't mean capitalism do you? Hope not - its so easy to criticise now you are a part of it - keeping in mind of course that most ATS posters would be dead if they had been born anywhere on this earth more than a couple hundred years ago. We are damned fortunate to live in the West, in this age.

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
reply to post by TheCommentator

 

You are asking the wrong question.

World, why should we, the US taxpayer, continue to support you?

How does the US taxpayer support Australians?
We have to pay for Obama's visit.
We have pay for the bases Americans are operating here.
We have to pay for your endless wars then cleanup after you leave.
And we have to pay for the enemies you make.

What do we get out of it?

Dude...

In less than three weeks you have 406 posts and have started 16 threads. From killing cats to objects on the surface of Mars. How on earth do you find time for that?

However, on this one (granted it's in General Chit Chat) other than stoking emotional flames, I am not sure where you are going with it.

1. "For the last century the US has been at the heart of worldwide...disregard for human rights..." So the US is the prime mover behind Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, the genocide in Rwanda, etc? Where are the facts to support this hypothesis?

2. "Why should the world support US foreign policy?" Who is asking for the support? What constitutes support? I am not sure the US asked anybody nor does any country for that matter give a damn about any other country when it feels its self interests are at stake.

3. "Why should the world allow the US to continue...slaughtering millions of innocent people?" Millions? As in death camp volume? Slaughter-ING, like present tense? Really? Outside of the original expansion on the North American continent which few argue was a stellar episode in US foreign policy, please demonstrate some proof.

You may be PO at another countries policy, it's no crime. Go ahead. However, to demonize one people (you did use "US" ergo all who live there, not the government of that country or certain foreign policies of various administrations) in your fact-free perspective, is akin to the mindset which drove the likes of the afore mentioned despots. It comes off like the pot calling the kettle black.

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
reply to post by TheCommentator

 

You are asking the wrong question.

World, why should we, the US taxpayer, continue to support you?

That's true. We're damned if we do and we're damned if we don't. People will take our money when they ask for it then turn around and condemn us for something else we did to someone else.

I just think we should start butting out of EVERY one's business no matter what it is. Quickly finish whatever it is we already started, bring everyone home and stay there.

If I've said it once I said it a thousand times, isolationism only applies to TOTAL isolationism, like North Korea for example. There's no way at this point where we can have no importing/exporting of goods and services. It IS a global economy after all. But there is no excuse for having our military everywhere else but here. It would be less expensive if they were here and maybe, just maybe, other people would stop hating us.

Originally posted by edged1
reply to post by vogon42

 

Keep your money,

you have none

reply to post by ComeFindMe

Everyone has a basis for their beliefs - otherwise they wouldn't have them!

That’s why I asked the question as I just stated in my last post to you.

Isn't it equally as ignorant to completely overlook the significant amounts of money they donate - irrespective or motives - that does end up buying medicine, shelter, food. A tangible result you cannot dispute.

As I have already explained this is a rigged system. In a scaled comparison the amount the US gives is no more than most other nations give.
Its pointless to donate money because they enforce the monetary system that creates the problems people are donating money for in the first place.

Billions suffer - I presume you mean generally, as you couldn't possibly blame America for the suffering of billions. Well, its hardly fair to expect one country to sort everything out - what about China - the amount of people in that country (with its PROVEN record of civil rights issues and its strict, anti-libertarian agenda) suffering would be hundreds of millions at least. Ditto Russia, India, Brazil...

Once again my point is that the US is enforcing the monetary system and corrupt governments that cause these problems, they could easily fix a lot of it out by not doing this.

Originally posted by Jace26

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
reply to post by TheCommentator

 

You are asking the wrong question.

World, why should we, the US taxpayer, continue to support you?

How does the US taxpayer support Australians?
We have to pay for Obama's visit.
We have pay for the bases Americans are operating here.
We have to pay for your endless wars then cleanup after you leave.
And we have to pay for the enemies you make.

What do we get out of it?

They support us by screwing us upright against a wall.

reply to post by ABNARTY

In less than three weeks you have 406 posts and have started 16 threads. From killing cats to objects on the surface of Mars. How on earth do you find time for that?

By looking.

However, on this one (granted it's in General Chit Chat) other than stoking emotional flames, I am not sure where you are going with it.

Stoking emotional flames? So its wrong to talk about these things because people will get upset. I’m sorry but if your major concern is Americans getting upset that they cant face the facts of their murderous government then you really need to set some priorities.

1. "For the last century the US has been at the heart of worldwide...disregard for human rights..." So the US is the prime mover behind Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, the genocide in Rwanda, etc? Where are the facts to support this hypothesis?

I didn’t say they were the cause of all these things, but being the enforcer of our monetary system they do make a lot of it possible. Remember that particularly in ww2 the same people that funded the allies funded the enemies.

2. "Why should the world support US foreign policy?" Who is asking for the support? What constitutes support? I am not sure the US asked anybody nor does any country for that matter give a damn about any other country when it feels its self interests are at stake.

The US is asking for support when they ask other nations to be involved with/help them with their foreign policies by giving up our young soldiers to die.
Clearly the US never gives a damn about another country unless its Israel.

3. "Why should the world allow the US to continue...slaughtering millions of innocent people?" Millions? As in death camp volume? Slaughter-ING, like present tense? Really? Outside of the original expansion on the North American continent which few argue was a stellar episode in US foreign policy, please demonstrate some proof.

Millions as in millions yes. Slaughtering like present, past and future.
Proof is in every single war/mission you government has been the cause of in the last century. Also the worldwide dictatorships and monetary system that cause billions to starve to death. The enforcement of corporate control that destroys environment and living condition. The list could go on forever.

reply to post by polarwarrior


I only mentioned countries that serve a purpose on a global level, the other "evil" ones

reply to post by TheCommentator


not in any country that matters to anyone but themselves

reply to post by TheCommentator


Its true though, America is a burden on Australia. Our young men and women are fighting in their wars, and get the cold shoulder for it.
I wonder how many Americans know today is the 70th anniversary of the Bombing of Darwin?

Originally posted by Jace26
reply to post by TheCommentator

 

Its true though, America is a burden on Australia. Our young men and women are fighting in their wars, and get the cold shoulder for it.
I wonder how many Americans know today is the 70th anniversary of the Bombing of Darwin?

I know man, the US and UK have used our soldiers like worthless pawns for way to long. It’s disgusting the way they treat us and the admiration a lot of Australians still have for them.
Not to mention all the nuclear testing they both done here among countless other things and there is probably so much we don’t know about.
I doubt many Americans do, but then again not many Australians would either. And for Australia not to commemorate such an event makes me think the Yanks had an influence in making us forget so they could use us as pawns again. I only say this because in any other case we would remember it like there is no tomorrow but somehow one of the most important and devastating things was forgotten.
Being a conspiracy site, I bet there is a conspiracy behind that.

Originally posted by TheCommentator

This thread is strictly about foreign policy, but of course you will all stray from that; but maybe because I said that you won’t, so who knows.

So,
Why should the world support US foreign policy?

Please don’t tell me because you give money to charity because we all know that is a bunk system that doesn’t help, especially when the US is enforcing the monetary system that puts people in poverty in the first place.
For the last century the US has been at the heart of worldwide corruption, death, destruction, war, famine and complete disregard for human rights and the environment in particular.
It would appear that the US has not really done anything good of significance, and if they have it more than likely had an ulterior motive.

Why should the world allow the US to continue breaking human rights laws and slaughtering millions of innocent people?

Surprise, another anti-American rant on ATS. Do you have any sources for any of these claims against America? Or are we just throwing facts to the wind and discussing your opinion.

reply to post by TheCommentator


Many historians believe the actual death toll was much higher than 350, some even say it was over 1,500+. Only recently, it was discovered that the largest American mutiny in history happened in Australia in 1942, and has been covered up until recently.

But, I think most Autralians know the importance of the bombings, it changed so much about Australia and literally was the final event of Australia looking at itself in the Empire. To which Australia then looked toward America (big mistake).

reply to post by Sharpenmycleats

Surprise, another anti-American rant on ATS. Do you have any sources for any of these claims against America? Or are we just throwing facts to the wind and discussing your opinion.

Grow up, is that really the best you got. We all know its true even if we dont care to admit it

Originally posted by Jace26
reply to post by TheCommentator

 

Many historians believe the actual death toll was much higher than 350, some even say it was over 1,500+. Only recently, it was discovered that the largest American mutiny in history happened in Australia in 1942, and has been covered up until recently.

But, I think most Autralians know the importance of the bombings, it changed so much about Australia and literally was the final event of Australia looking at itself in the Empire. To which Australia then looked toward America (big mistake).

It would be a lot higher then 350, Aboriginals were not counted back then so the death toll would be mostly white people.
Yeah I was reading about that mutiny, interesting stuff.

Well I know people know it was important but its not like its ever been a real focus of Australians, it seems a lot smaller things get way more attention.
It certainly scared the crap out of Australians at the time, I have read a few books about the bombing; it would have been an interesting time to be alive is all I can say.

Australia is kidding itself allying itself with America at the moment, we should be smart and get closer to china and other Asian nations before its too late.

reply to post by TheCommentator


Thats exactly what I think, America is a sinking ship. But lets face it, in the event of an invasion America wasn't going to come to our aid anyway.

We need to become allies with China and other South East Asian countries, thats where our future will be.

Originally posted by Jace26
reply to post by TheCommentator

 

Thats exactly what I think, America is a sinking ship. But lets face it, in the event of an invasion America wasn't going to come to our aid anyway.

We need to become allies with China and other South East Asian countries, thats where our future will be.

If America can survive the next couple of decades I will be very surprised. And yeah we all know they would leave us to perish in a heartbeat.
One of the basic principles of warfare is geography. There is no sense in a nation like Australia with such a small population to be committed to a nation so far away.
China, India and the Philippines have the largest armies in the world and they could easily flood Australia, Europe and America at the same time.

reply to post by SGTSECRET

The International community should not support anything that our government wants to do unless it is something our citizens are actually backing. Many people around the world don't realize that many citizens of the U.S. don't support much of what is being carried out in 'our' name. The American people are never asked "hey, people, do you want this?'

Not only am I with this guy 100%, but I will add that many of us feel that it is scandalous how we have been manipulating countries for decades. Of course we in this case means those that have seized control of our country's government. I am not saying that we the people are not partially to blame in that we were lazy and distracted and did not pay enough attention. Some of the responses above me will demonstrate that many of us still are not paying proper attention. South America, Asia, Africa and much of Europe have all been victimized by our corporations and intelligence services, but so have the American people.

Want to know who I support? Chavez and the whole South American Bolivarian movement. S.A. is now reaching for the American dream and beginning to get it, while the US is rapidly losing the last illusions of it. Indeed, in order to know what is really going on in the world, and even worse, our own country we have to listen to foreign news. There are no American sites which are set as any of my home pages. To take it one step further, my Serbian friend - naturalized citizen - is more aware of what is going on in this country than most Americans will ever be.

Sad, very sad. And after Jefferson's warning...

Don't support us. Get loud and scream bloody murder for all our victims, because some of them are inside the US, and we need help.

Originally posted by TheCommentator
reply to post by Sharpenmycleats

 

Surprise, another anti-American rant on ATS. Do you have any sources for any of these claims against America? Or are we just throwing facts to the wind and discussing your opinion.

Grow up, is that really the best you got. We all know its true even if we dont care to admit it

"We". Who exactly is "We?"

Provide sources for your rhetoric or admit we are discussing your opinion. I notice under your name it say "All hail US tyranny.". Well that pretty much sums up your bias opinion. Since you have provided no sources to support your thread, that all this is, opinion. What's left to discuss.

If you don't like what your government does, vote them out. Don't come on a forum and try and blame other countries. I stand by my statement, just another baseless anti-American rant.