Psychic mediums vs Religion beliefs

I was inspired to create this thread based on some things I've seen on many message boards. To me, it seems that psychic mediums and religious beliefs run contrary to each other on the view of the afterlife. It seems like there are 2 totally different beliefs by 2 totally different sources. Psychics claim to get their information about the afterlife from 1st hand experience by talking to their "spirit guides" and other spirits while religions claim to get their information from God's prophets, messengers and angels from God. Who is right and who is wrong?? Religions say to trust no mediums or psychics and psychics say that religion is not true and there is no such thing as hell or a vengefull/judgemental God. Who are these separate entities getting their info from. Are psychics really getting their info from spirit guides and spirits? Are religions really getting their info from the "Word of God"?

Who do we believe or do we believe neither? What's your opinion on this? I'll be back later to post my views.

Seems pretty obvious to me. Religion has always been about controlling the masses, unifying them under fear of punishment and retribution, convincing them they are impotent and sinners. Psychic mediums tell you what they are hearing from those not currently in material form. When they speak of the love and freedom and lightness of being, how is that controlling and manipulative? Isn't that more something to look forward to? If you knew that no matter what happens in your life, that at the end of it - whenever that might come - that you will be in a safe and loving place, would that make you live differently? There is no human "authority" that wants you to feel safe and loved. They want you to feel weak and vulnerable. They want your lifelong obedience and subjugation.

I have written this before here in this forum. My grandmother was a very devout Christian. From about 1990 onward she was completely senile and didn't even remember who I was. She died several years later. Since I live halfway around the world, I hadn't seen her since 1991. I am not close with my family in the US. On Boxing Day, I had the breath knocked out of me as I was making the evening meal. For about two minutes I simply could not breathe. My only thought was "Grandmother". I felt that she was there with me, leaving something of great value inside me. After that two minutes, I felt a huge pull and somehow "saw" a bright light fly quickly out of the window beside me. I went to the bedroom and said to my then-husband that I think my grandmother had died. He only said that if she had, the phone would ring. It never did. But that following year, I got a letter from my aunt-by-marriage informing me that she didn't know if anyone had told me but my grandmother had died on Boxing Day the previous year. That letter dropped through the mail slot on my grandmother's birthday.

I know we don't die. Our souls are eternal, just as all energy is eternal. Our physical bodies die but that is not us.

Originally posted by CosmicEgg
Seems pretty obvious to me. Religion has always been about controlling the masses, unifying them under fear of punishment and retribution, convincing them they are impotent and sinners. Psychic mediums tell you what they are hearing from those not currently in material form. When they speak of the love and freedom and lightness of being, how is that controlling and manipulative? Isn't that more something to look forward to? If you knew that no matter what happens in your life, that at the end of it - whenever that might come - that you will be in a safe and loving place, would that make you live differently? There is no human "authority" that wants you to feel safe and loved. They want you to feel weak and vulnerable. They want your lifelong obedience and subjugation.

I have written this before here in this forum. My grandmother was a very devout Christian. From about 1990 onward she was completely senile and didn't even remember who I was. She died several years later. Since I live halfway around the world, I hadn't seen her since 1991. I am not close with my family in the US. On Boxing Day, I had the breath knocked out of me as I was making the evening meal. For about two minutes I simply could not breathe. My only thought was "Grandmother". I felt that she was there with me, leaving something of great value inside me. After that two minutes, I felt a huge pull and somehow "saw" a bright light fly quickly out of the window beside me. I went to the bedroom and said to my then-husband that I think my grandmother had died. He only said that if she had, the phone would ring. It never did. But that following year, I got a letter from my aunt-by-marriage informing me that she didn't know if anyone had told me but my grandmother had died on Boxing Day the previous year. That letter dropped through the mail slot on my grandmother's birthday.

I know we don't die. Our souls are eternal, just as all energy is eternal. Our physical bodies die but that is not us.

Obvious. I never knew it was that obvious. You do know that there are 100's of different religions and beliefs around the world. To say that religion is to control people is a big generalization. Religion and beliefs existed since the beginning of mankind. Many were started by poor, rebellious people. Anyways, how do you know that psychics aren't selling you a story to win their trust. Yes, it sounds positive that their talking to spirits of the light and God and such forth but how do you know they're not distorting the truth and telling you half truths to win your side. How do you know which psychics to believe? How do you know which religions to believe?? Do you just pick the one that sounds more positive and good to you?? Is everything in the spirit world all positive and good..

What about people who claim to be haunted by ghost or possessed by ghost? Are they being haunted or possessed by the "spirits of light" that the local psychic talks about. Is there more to the spirit world than the "spirits of light"?

Originally posted by Big Chief
I was inspired to create this thread based on some things I've seen on many message boards. To me, it seems that psychic mediums and religious beliefs run contrary to each other on the view of the afterlife. It seems like there are 2 totally different beliefs by 2 totally different sources. Psychics claim to get their information about the afterlife from 1st hand experience by talking to their "spirit guides" and other spirits while religions claim to get their information from God's prophets, messengers and angels from God. Who is right and who is wrong?? Religions say to trust no mediums or psychics and psychics say that religion is not true and there is no such thing as hell or a vengefull/judgemental God. Who are these separate entities getting their info from. Are psychics really getting their info from spirit guides and spirits? Are religions really getting their info from the "Word of God"?

Who do we believe or do we believe neither? What's your opinion on this? I'll be back later to post my views.

I have often contemplated that also. Like I stated in another thread, I know a medium through my sister. He is not only autistic but does not charge for his 'services'.
He is VERY religious and gives thanks to God for his gift.

BUT I have often wondered (I've met with him several times) if his 'gift' is truly from God or does he just have an uncanny ability to read minds. He is very 'spot on' most of the time, scary like. He comes up with stuff that no one could possibly know. Is it really from the spirit world? is he pulling it from our minds like telepathy? Or does it have something to do with him being autistic?

reply to post by Big Chief


I'm not talking about pagans or that sort of thing. I'm talking about the big religions. The ones that want your membership so they have you trembling in fear. I assume that's what you were talking about. Obviously the Unitarian Universalists and their sort aren't after that. You would be hard-pressed to prove that one. I think you understood that as being a given.

Remember that things are always a matter of perspective. If you want to feel fear or need to feel it, you will always be able to find some source for it. Plenty of people find it easier to listen to others, to be subjugated, oppressed, shackled, than to think for themselves. They want to feel safe and protected. Then it's always someone else's fault, not theirs, when things go wrong.

If you really listen to that small voice in your heart, does it say to live in fear of the unknown? Does it tell you not to look under your bed? Does it really tell you that your loving god is damning you to eternal flames because you didn't live by arbitrary rules, or does that sound more like your fellow man? Seriously.

reply to post by Big Chief


As a sweeping generalisation, we could say one major difference exists between the two groups you mention, and that is, one relies on BELIEF for their 'knowledge', while the other relies on EXPERIENCE.

And a massive gulf MUST exist between the two for that one reason.

It's fair to say that not all Psychics get info from the sources they claim, and some to work with a client's higher-self.. the thing that represents the Soul and is often misconstrued as their "Spirit Guide". This is not including Helper guides.

Without wishing to offend any Believers.. ALL Belief has Limitations that are inherent in the System. For clear psychics, there are also Limitations based on their strength and levels of Belief... which is to say that a good psychic will have No Beliefs at all.. ever. Instead they will only operate on their direct experiences which change as one works .. hence why for a good, clear psychic, their understandings about everything are only their Current Understandings... has ot be that way or they too fall into the Trap of having and attaching to Beliefs.

Why does religion say not to trust psychics, etc?

My answer, based only on my experience, is so that FOLLOWERS DO NOT look at anything other than what they have now, so that they CANNOT learn how to connect directly to 'god' and know how far from the Truth man's Limiting BELIEFS really are.

There are a quite a few very good spiritual councellors around the planet, and many more Helpers in the various realms the new age speaks of.. something you don't find with Religionists because they are warned away from such life-works in order to ONLY Believe and Follow.

Many times over the long years of my membership here, I have written for all readers about my direct experiences working with the dead, what happens to them, what they experience after death... and all only shared from Experience.

Had I not followed my gut instincts and thus fearfully stayed within the Limitations decreed by our Indoctrination, and Religion, then I would have never discovered the bigger picture of Simplicity, of knowing what we are and why we are here in this Now... and more importantly I wold never have learned easy methods for most people to have their own direct experience for their own growth out of Limitations of Beliefs.

Lastly, to me.. religionsists, followers of any Belief System.. are okay where they are now.. it is how it should be for now.. I see them all as equal human beings with equal potential.

What I also see is that we have been indoctrinated into Believing Truth must be difficult to attain, any methods to arrive at truth HAS to be Hard, it has to be Complex and has to take a lifetime of effort to reach, etc. And it is these exact limitations within Belief that cause us to experience that as a reality.. as we struggle to know anything.

The outcomes of the search for Complexity blinds us to the most Simple of things.. hence why so many simply do not "get it" yet.. it's not what most are looking for, so they overlook the simplicity as having no value because it is too simple to be true.

And that is indoctrinated Belief-System Limitation right there.

Everyone will slowly wake up in their own time, dependant only their own efforts to do so.. and it is all as it should be in this timeframe.

reply to post by Big Chief


Lets forget about religion and psychics for a second and lets look at how our brain stores and interprets information. We all know that our body works with electricity, that's how we move our muscles and that's why your muscles contract involuntarily when you receive an electric shock. Now with this in mind think of the brain, it's basically a mushy mess of tiny electric wiring, plus some electrolytic chemicals that carefully manage the conductivity of these tiny wires in your brain. So if you upset the chemicals you upset the way information gets processed and you're in for a fun time. Also another fun-fact about electricity which is very important to our brain is that when current flows in a conductor a magnetic field is formed around the conductor and also the opposite, when a conductor moves through a magnetic field current flows through the conductor. Very easy example is a transformer, electric energy to magnetic energy to electric energy again. So they are basically to sides of the same coin, one in the same thing only in different forms. But back to the brain. In effect you can think of your brain as a fleshy antenna in the sense that outside magnetic fields can influence your brain and the way it interprets information. This is the essence of psychic abilities, I believe. Well the premonition/vision/spirit guide part at least. At the moment your brain is tuned into reality, what ever that might be, but if you knew how you could "tune" your brain to a different station either by concentration or various easier ways like drugs, drilling holes in your scull, or maybe even installing a golden wire mesh beneath your scalp with wires carefully connected to certain parts of your brain for better reception. In the end, the existence of God, Angels, Demons, spirit guides, split personalities, the government or any other voice inside your head can be the result of your brain so desperately trying to make sense of all this electric noise it's picking up 24/7 because that is what it does, it receives information from where ever, interprets it and it tries to make recognizable, usable information like voices or pictures according to how it feels. If you are scared of the dark you'll always see shadows morphing into scary crap around your room because that is what your brain does, being scared of the dark is irrational on its own so your brain has to create a reason for being scared so it creates scary shapes out of seemingly ordinary crap and sometimes so vividly that you jump and run for the light switch.

Psychics believe that spirits speak to them because that's the way their brain rationalizes information they receive outside of their normal senses. Religious people claim it's God, same deal. They're both right, if we listen carefully we can all hear voices it's just we cannot blindly believe everything our brain picks up. It's not your dead grandpa talking to you it's your brain being confused which he cannot stand being so he makes stuff up just to make sense. As for the afterlife, who knows and should it really matter? Death, for me is an absurd idea, the only reason we think it exist is because we guess that's what happens when other things stop breathing/moving/turn brown and brittle (in the case of plants) plus if we die whose to say we even know we are dead. I guess the closest thing to "crossing over" is falling asleep. While in a dream you're almost always convinced its real until your awake then your almost always convinced being awake is real. In a sense you're never really unconscious because if you were you won't be able to interpret information and if dying makes you unconscious then I guess logically death is a state of non-interpretation so it's black nothing for ever and ever which is really lame and boring so I'll rather believe in some sort of afterlife, at least when life sucks really bad an afterlife is something to look forward to

Originally posted by Tayesin
reply to post by Big Chief

 

As a sweeping generalisation, we could say one major difference exists between the two groups you mention, and that is, one relies on BELIEF for their 'knowledge', while the other relies on EXPERIENCE.

And a massive gulf MUST exist between the two for that one reason.

It's fair to say that not all Psychics get info from the sources they claim, and some to work with a client's higher-self.. the thing that represents the Soul and is often misconstrued as their "Spirit Guide". This is not including Helper guides.

Without wishing to offend any Believers.. ALL Belief has Limitations that are inherent in the System. For clear psychics, there are also Limitations based on their strength and levels of Belief... which is to say that a good psychic will have No Beliefs at all.. ever. Instead they will only operate on their direct experiences which change as one works .. hence why for a good, clear psychic, their understandings about everything are only their Current Understandings... has ot be that way or they too fall into the Trap of having and attaching to Beliefs.

Why does religion say not to trust psychics, etc?

My answer, based only on my experience, is so that FOLLOWERS DO NOT look at anything other than what they have now, so that they CANNOT learn how to connect directly to 'god' and know how far from the Truth man's Limiting BELIEFS really are.

There are a quite a few very good spiritual councellors around the planet, and many more Helpers in the various realms the new age speaks of.. something you don't find with Religionists because they are warned away from such life-works in order to ONLY Believe and Follow.

Many times over the long years of my membership here, I have written for all readers about my direct experiences working with the dead, what happens to them, what they experience after death... and all only shared from Experience.

Had I not followed my gut instincts and thus fearfully stayed within the Limitations decreed by our Indoctrination, and Religion, then I would have never discovered the bigger picture of Simplicity, of knowing what we are and why we are here in this Now... and more importantly I wold never have learned easy methods for most people to have their own direct experience for their own growth out of Limitations of Beliefs.

Lastly, to me.. religionsists, followers of any Belief System.. are okay where they are now.. it is how it should be for now.. I see them all as equal human beings with equal potential.

What I also see is that we have been indoctrinated into Believing Truth must be difficult to attain, any methods to arrive at truth HAS to be Hard, it has to be Complex and has to take a lifetime of effort to reach, etc. And it is these exact limitations within Belief that cause us to experience that as a reality.. as we struggle to know anything.

The outcomes of the search for Complexity blinds us to the most Simple of things.. hence why so many simply do not "get it" yet.. it's not what most are looking for, so they overlook the simplicity as having no value because it is too simple to be true.

And that is indoctrinated Belief-System Limitation right there.

Everyone will slowly wake up in their own time, dependant only their own efforts to do so.. and it is all as it should be in this timeframe.

You know this is the exact contradictions and struggle between religion and psychics that I'm talking about. I see many psychics like Sylvia Browne telling people to get in tune with their spirit guides and talk to the spirit guides. I also see alot of physics telling people to communicate with the spirit world and help the dead cross into the light. On the other hand you have religionist saying not to trust psychics and the dead knows nothing and don't mingle with the spirit world. Many psychics would say that religion is hindering mans interaction with the spirit world and knowing the true God and the spirit world.

Let's just say we listen to religionist and do not communicate with the spirit world at all. Just believe in your religion and what was written and have faith. What would that do for man in the long run? Would that hurt mans true knowledge of the spirit world. Would man be at a disadvantage by not mingling with the spirit world while alive on earth? Is the spirit world "all good? Is there any negativity or ramifications for "mucking around" with the spirit world?

On the other hand, let's say man listens to psychics and start interacting with the spirit world regulary. Talking to spirit guides and helping spirits 'cross into the light'. What would be the ramifications of these actions?? Would man gain more knowledge and know more about God and the spirit world? Would there be any negative effects of this or is there nothing to fear in the spirit world?

reply to post by Big Chief


Don't believe in either. Neither psychics, nor gods, know the whole scope of what is really happening. The "spirits" that a psychic convene with are only privy to information they can ascertain during the seance, or summoning. Likewise, a deity can only offer input on the information occurring after its own conception.

What do I mean?

Well, next time that you go to see a psychic, or a medium, or any divination expert, don't ask personal questions. Instead, ask the spirits to explain some cosmological constant, or to discuss quantum mechanics with you. Bring up topics in psychology, or Egyptian history, or advanced mathematics. Watch as the medium and their "spirits" squirm and struggle to explain these things.

Concerning deities, we know that all of the "big Gods" like Yahweh, and Buddha, and Brahma, have finite existences. Regardless of what is said in the Bible, the Dhammapada, the Rigveda, or other texts. We can trace, with certainty, the origin of these beings. For example, Yahweh is a composite deity of Judaic tribes from the Levant. The Rigveda was composed between 1700-1100 BCE. So, no god can have the full story, as they are cultural responses to particular time periods.

The hundreds of thousands of years occurring before the deities of Mesopotamia came about are unknown to these gods. Just as the occupants of Mesopotamia, ancient Egypt, ancient Persia, and the Arabs are not known to Yahweh. Likewise, Brahma, the Buddha, Allah, Jesus Christ, Mithra, Zeus, and all of their divine brethren also only had knowledge of their particular culture and time-period.

Don't trust in religion, or psychics. Neither are connected to The Truth, because The Truth does not exist. As a species, we fear death and nonexistence more than anything. It is only natural, then, that we would seek comfort from this concept in the act of creating permanence beyond mortal death.

Primitive man feared death, so the spirit world came to be, accessible through dreams, visions, and drugs. Communication with ancestors, and the spirits of nature became possible as a source of comfort, and a promise that we would not simply end, and cease-to-be upon death.

The people of Mesopotamia feared death, so they told stories (see: the Epic of Gilgamesh, and Ut-Napishtam from the Chaldean Flood Tablets) where-in they would be rewarded with eternal life if they performed predetermined deeds properly.

In Egypt the fear of death and nonexistence was so great that entire gods existed just to banish it. Also, their entire culture, rituals, ceremonies, and activities were based around prolonging their life, and securing their own permanence and immortality. Such fear of death gave rise to mummification, the early prototypes to modern medicine, the afterlife, ghosts, souls, and the like.

In India this fear was so great that they invented varying Heavens, and an assortment of Hellish locations so that no one would ever fully perish from existence into nonexistence.

The promises of the psychic are no different. Instead of a god who guides us to eternal life, we now have psychics and spirits who guide us to eternal life beyond death. Same concept, different costume. Instead of priests, shamans, and prophets we now have psychics, sensitives, and spiritualists. It really is just the reverse side of the same coin, and when the penny drops we'll most likely see a resurgence in gods and prophets again.

They're all useless to you in the end though.

~ Wandering Scribe

Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
reply to post by Big Chief

 

Don't believe in either. Neither psychics, nor gods, know the whole scope of what is really happening. The "spirits" that a psychic convene with are only privy to information they can ascertain during the seance, or summoning. Likewise, a deity can only offer input on the information occurring after its own conception.

What do I mean?

Well, next time that you go to see a psychic, or a medium, or any divination expert, don't ask personal questions. Instead, ask the spirits to explain some cosmological constant, or to discuss quantum mechanics with you. Bring up topics in psychology, or Egyptian history, or advanced mathematics. Watch as the medium and their "spirits" squirm and struggle to explain these things.

Concerning deities, we know that all of the "big Gods" like Yahweh, and Buddha, and Brahma, have finite existences. Regardless of what is said in the Bible, the Dhammapada, the Rigveda, or other texts. We can trace, with certainty, the origin of these beings. For example, Yahweh is a composite deity of Judaic tribes from the Levant. The Rigveda was composed between 1700-1100 BCE. So, no god can have the full story, as they are cultural responses to particular time periods.

The hundreds of thousands of years occurring before the deities of Mesopotamia came about are unknown to these gods. Just as the occupants of Mesopotamia, ancient Egypt, ancient Persia, and the Arabs are not known to Yahweh. Likewise, Brahma, the Buddha, Allah, Jesus Christ, Mithra, Zeus, and all of their divine brethren also only had knowledge of their particular culture and time-period.

Don't trust in religion, or psychics. Neither are connected to The Truth, because The Truth does not exist. As a species, we fear death and nonexistence more than anything. It is only natural, then, that we would seek comfort from this concept in the act of creating permanence beyond mortal death.

Primitive man feared death, so the spirit world came to be, accessible through dreams, visions, and drugs. Communication with ancestors, and the spirits of nature became possible as a source of comfort, and a promise that we would not simply end, and cease-to-be upon death.

The people of Mesopotamia feared death, so they told stories (see: the Epic of Gilgamesh, and Ut-Napishtam from the Chaldean Flood Tablets) where-in they would be rewarded with eternal life if they performed predetermined deeds properly.

In Egypt the fear of death and nonexistence was so great that entire gods existed just to banish it. Also, their entire culture, rituals, ceremonies, and activities were based around prolonging their life, and securing their own permanence and immortality. Such fear of death gave rise to mummification, the early prototypes to modern medicine, the afterlife, ghosts, souls, and the like.

In India this fear was so great that they invented varying Heavens, and an assortment of Hellish locations so that no one would ever fully perish from existence into nonexistence.

The promises of the psychic are no different. Instead of a god who guides us to eternal life, we now have psychics and spirits who guide us to eternal life beyond death. Same concept, different costume. Instead of priests, shamans, and prophets we now have psychics, sensitives, and spiritualists. It really is just the reverse side of the same coin, and when the penny drops we'll most likely see a resurgence in gods and prophets again.

They're all useless to you in the end though.

~ Wandering Scribe

Questions.. How do you know what information "spirits" are privy to? How do you know that they can't know information that was before their time? Have you communicated with "spirits"? Also, you do know that some of these beings in the spirit world are powerful enough to manifest themselves in physical form in this world? Some can effect things physically in this world and prove that they are real. Now, what these beings say about their environment or the spirit world is another thing. Also, there are people who claim to astral project and visit other realms. Alot of ancient beliefs and religions were based on communication with the "spirit world". They didn't create heaven and hell out of fear. These things were "told" to them by the "beings" that they contacted..Just like psychics today tell people about the spirit world based on their personal interaction with spirits and the spirit world. These places or beliefs in heaven, hell, re-incarnation, limbo, purgatory and what have not didn't just come out of man's vivid imagination or fear of death. They came from man communicating with these "invisible beings" in the "spirit world". At least that what these people claim their beliefs come from.

Just like religious people talk about their knowledge was the word of God from angels of God.

reply to post by Big Chief


As a preface, yes I have met with psychics, mediums, shamans and the like. I am not an atheist, believing that life is meaningless and arbitrary. I just remain skeptical that the explanations offered by common religious and spiritual movements are the reality of post-death existence.



1. Have I personally communicated with spirits? No, I don't believe so. I have tried though. I've tried to use the Ouija Board; I learned, and still practice, Tarot readings; I have tried divination with water and mirrors; and I've been part of, and carried out, a handful of seances even. What I have never encountered though, was any type of spirit communication which gave me information beyond the scope of the medium, or which couldn't be gathered through cold-readings, and good psychology.

This doesn't mean I don't believe in the existence of spirits and souls. I have had my own supernatural, and paranormal encounters. I have never had them explain the cosmology of the Universe, or what exactly happens after death though. Only show up as temporary sensory stimulation.



2. Concerning deities not being omniscient, although they claim to be... I've read many of the works of gods and spirits—not all of them, mind you—and have yet to find an ancient source which mentions: computers, the internet, neuroscience, germs and bacteria, electricity, the atom, or dinosaurs, and which was recorded before these things were discovered. I haven't even found a god who told us that we were one planet among 9, in a single galaxy among billions.

Again, I'm not denying that there might be inter-dimensional, extraterrestrial, higher knowledge, and occult essences which do possess some kind of superior understanding of space, time, and life than we do at the present moment. I am only implying that those forces are not the traditional God, Jesus, angels, spirits, and gods of our current religious and spiritual systems.



3. In regards to manifestations, I can only put forth that I have seen, and had genuine supernatural encounters. However, the mediums who claim to have a direct connection to God and Christ I don't think are genuine. Could some higher being manifest? Certainly. Has it? No, I don't believe so. Schizophrenia, Multiple Personality Disorder, pareidolia, hypnogogia, fever dreams, hallucinations and group hallucinations, mistaken identifications, and simple lying can account for a large portion of these instances.

Why do psychics always demand money? Why do mediums insist that their work can only be done in their chosen location? Why don't the spirits manifest on command? Why do visions and miraculous manifestations not occur to thousands, or millions, but only to two of three people in crowded masses? Why hasn't a single psychic, or all of their spirit guides, ever been able to name for me the ghost of the only person that I have ever seen manifest?

I think those are equally good questions to pose alongside the question of why I disbelieve in spite of aportation, orbs, bi-location, psychism, and clairvoyance.



(responding to the rest of your questions in a second post, as my character limit is too slim to finish in this single post)

~ Wandering Scribe

Psychics were incorporated in many religions. Cassandra, The Oracle at Delphi. They were the priests and priestess that performed ceremonies. Shamans, astrologers, yoga, dancing Sufi mystic and medicine workers.

Heck, even King Saul went a seer to summon Samual, apparently it worked. Nebakanezer had his dreams interpreted. Weren't all the prophets seers?

Religions just don't want you to see, they want to tell you what to believe.

reply to post by Big Chief


PART 2



4. When people talk to me about astral projection I often ask them why the Spirit World, or Heaven, or wherever they happen to be never contains anything outside of what they themselves could have encountered through pop-culture, novels, movies, and worldly entertainment. Why was one woman's Vision of Hell exactly as described in Dante's Inferno? I wonder if this woman even knew that Dante's Inferno was a parody and mockery of the Catholic faith. It would seem to me that, instead of visiting other dimensions and realms, these astral voyagers are actually exploring the inner depths of their own creative unconscious.

Again, not that I don't believe in the parallel universe theory, or that alternate realities and places of being can exist. I just don't believe that they would be so alike in shape, feel, working, and material as our own. If they were, why is there a divide between them at all?



5. I must always beg to differ that Hell, Purgatory, Heaven, and like-minded places were not created out of a fear of death. Have you ever considered that an individual, let's call him Abra-ham, invented all of it?

Let's pretend that Abra-ham lived in Uruk, a capitol city of the Babylonian empire. Abra-ham noticed that people died, and didn't come back to life. He asked the local high priest—Ut-Nabanipal—one day: "Ut-Nabanipal, what happens to us when we die?" To which Ut-Nabanipal replied: "Abra-ham, when we die our bodies simply cease to be." Now, Abra-ham did not like this, because he was afraid of dying; he also noticed that many of his fellow farmers felt the same way.

So, one day Abra-ham decides to try and make his neighbor, Mo-ses, feel better about getting old. Abra-ham tells Mo-ses: "Don't worry, Mo-ses. Getting old is OK! I learned that when you die, you do not go away forever, but are instead brought to a beautiful garden, where you can feast plentifully forever, and never have to toil, or hurt yourself ever again!"

Mo-ses, feeling relieved, asks Abra-ham: "How do you know this?" To which the reply is: "A man told me. He was no ordinary man though. He could do wonderful things that you and I could not. He could fly like the birds in the sky! So he must know things we do not!" Mo-ses, relieved by this as well, says that he thinks he and Abra-ham should spread the word through the town of Uruk.

Time passes, and Mo-ses and Abra-ham gather followers who feel comforted by the idea that flying men have promised them a happy, rewarding life when they die. One day though, Ut-Nabanipal learns of Abra-ham's words and condemns them. "That is not what our great god, Anu, has said happens to us!" This difference causes people to question Abra-ham, and Mo-ses. They ask: "What if Ut-nabanipal is right, and you are wrong?"

Mo-ses, seeing that Abra-ham has no reply, answers: "The winged-men, who are called Angels, are only the messengers, come to give us the good news! Their Lord, THE Lord, who is a greater master than Ut-Nabanipal's gods, says that people who do not want to come to his wonderful garden will instead go to Hell: the vile underworld where they are tortured and tormented for all of their second, eternal life. Do you all want that, or would you rather go to Heaven and live in the garden with us, the winged Angels, and THE Lord?"

This difference, between Anu's claim that life ends, and THE Lord's claim that another life awaits causes a war to erupt between Ut-Nabanipal and Abra-ham. It is a long, bloody war. Many followers of both groups die. Eventually, Abra-ham, Mo-ses, and their followers are kicked out of Uruk. They begin to wander the desert in search of new living quarters. Seeing his people are weary, Abra-ham starts to head toward the only sources of water he knows of. He also begins to tell his despirited followers that THE Lord, and his Angels are leading them to safety.

After more time, the followers continue to grow weary and wish to turn back. Mo-ses commands them not to, beseeching them: "Do not you remember how evil, and powerful, and demonic those people were? They are surely unnatural monsters who would devour us again if we return! Come, stay with us, and come to the garden of the Angels, do not return to the city of the devils!"

...

This story could go on, and on, and on. Recounting an explanation for all of the various worlds, spirits, afterlife theories, and spiritual states on the basis of fear, control, and lack-of-knowledge. I hope that the point is clear without doing so though.

Likewise, I hope I've explained thoroughly that I am not a non-believer, more like I don't believe in the current spiritual climate, and religious trends because I see the error of their ways, and the misdirection they employ to dupe people into believing.

Just my own opinions and beliefs though.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by Big Chief


Religions are definitely to control the masses:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Ex-Vatican Translator, Mauro Biglino's Alternative Creation/Translation Theory

Do you know that every bible has a version of the 10 commandments, thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, etc, that does not exist in the Hebrew? Its a complete fabrication, 100% outright lie.

They want the slaves to cost them less in troops to control, not that those aren't virtues.

Now, the closest thing to the 10 commandments is found in the Egyptian book of Thoth.

Its all on the thread and the real translations are interesting.

But even so, even if one doesnt know whats going on, the bible itself contains clues.

Genesis 32 30, the pineal is named, and I gather it has everything to do with Jacob's ladder, which in turn seems to be the infinite frequency realms.

Something for all the psi, meditators or mediums, not your typical religious.

And in Ecclesiastics, they mention the silver cord, that is only noticeable when you are astrally projecting. Another thing your priest/minister/rabbi would not recommend.

reply to post by Big Chief


Hi BC,

Lots of questions huh.

Using that word.. "IF"... people started to work with their higher-self/Guide/Soul, YES. they would grow and become far more Aware of what is around them all the time than they do now. They will interact with it in a healthy way because they will all have Remembered the same things after some time.. nothing can harm you unless you allow it to. And so they will no longer be limited by that Belief and continue to Remember.

The outcomes of this would be, more harmonious interactions between individual people, groups, and countries as more people pulled together to create a future worth having, less angst and stress in daily life for everyone, more simple enjoyment instead of things and excitements, much LESS Fear of anything.. especially of Death, much less crime, less hatred, less of all the more negative Choices humans make.

There is no necessity for a lot of people to go charging off into the Belief Territories to assist the blind-dead.. that area has been oging along fine for a very long time without too many workers in there.

The other scenario you offered, would be much more of what has already been for millenia.. and that doesn't seem to have worked well for many people at all really.

But, don't just Believe this silly old guy.. go find out for yourself.

reply to post by Tayesin


What are your thoughts on Franz Bardon's, Initiation into the Hermetics? I've just started it myself.

Originally posted by intelligenthoodlum33
What are your thoughts on Franz Bardon's, Initiation into the Hermetics? I've just started it myself.

My personal view is that all systems of Belief have limitations to them.. inherent within the Belief.

I have not read that work, and have no interest, sorry to say.

But, books can assist you when you read something for the very first time that you already know about.... a Reminder of what you know... and an affirmation that you are heading in the right direction for you.

So I think book learning can be of some help to seekers.. working on one myself now for the past 12 years, which will be in e-book form shortly.... but more importantly using solid, well tested methods to practice is where the real opportunities are found.

Reading can only take you so far.. and fill the mind with Stuff that may not apply at all.. so the rest has to be found within you through practice every day.

reply to post by Tayesin


Yeah, books are the closest thing I have to a teacher where I'm at, unfortunately. The bright side is trying to still this mind of mine is a full time job in itself, so I have plenty of work to keep me busy for now. Thanks for replying.

reply to post by intelligenthoodlum33


Teachers are funny things. Big "T" to go along with the clothing, flowery words, expensive courses, and other negatives. Not saying we can't learn something worthwhile from them.. well.. maybe I am.

A teacher, little "t", will not be picked in a crowd unless they "shine for you". They will show you easy ways to meet and work with the real teacher within You. After that, you won't need them.

The difference is like chalk and cheese.

You could spend years learning to quiet the mind's chatter, and many people do. So you might be better off using all the energy and effort to just focus on what you Intend. When the Mind wanders.. ignore it and just refocus. Soon enough it learns to sit in the back seat and shut up.

When psychic mediums claim there is no hell because their spirit guides (or whoever) told them ... they are either just plain wrong or they are listening to bad spirits. Near Death Expeirences show that there is indeed a Hell. It's real.

Christians have MYSTICS. (I don't know about Buddhists and Jews ... gotta look that one up). Religious mystics who have visions and are granted visits from those who have passed away. I guess you could call them the psychics of the Christian community .. but it's more than that.