Germany suggesting regime change in Greece

Appropriate that the birthplace of Democracy is proving to also be it's deathbed. Greece is by no means innocent in this whole mess, but what they need to do is default and live within their means. It's gonna suck for them, no doubt, but they'll never get the Germans and other Europeans out of their affairs without it.

Other debtor nations including the US should take heed. Despite both sides of the political duopoly here (Cheney from the GoP and Krugman who is and economist who has the ear of Dems) who have said things like "deficits don't matter" are exactly like the Greek leaders of the past who have led them to this point.

Originally posted by gladtobehere
They dont even feel the need to be secretive about it anymore, now they openly talk about overthrowing sovereign nations.

The people of the World really need to take our countries back.

In case you don't know it, this means you...

Since you decided to quote News Papers as official news, how about you read below and go through the stats, btw, be careful now, as my closest real life friend is one of the few who actually compile that data you are viewing online, so simply read through it and make your own independent analysis rather than being spoon fed.

I do realize you are about get an information overload but somethings need to be said and done the proper way.

EURO-STAT

Originally posted by Hessdalen
for some info about their "protest" watch this documentary...i totaly lost my respect for their "protest"...they simply fight each other....and in such a situation - plain stupidity!

If that's the message delivered to you then it was successful, but from this side of the fence it's totally different. I could type paragraph after paragraph, but it would make no difference, if you really have what it takes, then jump on a plane and see for yourself, oh don't worry, Greeks don't hate foreigners, there as friendly as always, their hostility is towards the e.u. and the current political system.

Originally posted by Hessdalen
good idea, there is no hope in greece with the current people in power and the people of greece are just stupid - sorry to say that - but they fight each other instead building a joint front against their politicians, the people who are to blame for all that....instead they perform a civil war and waste time, credebility and (again) their own money by destroying their capitol....just a hopeless situation....they really need a forced change

Funny though, its what the Persians delivered to Sparta...sadly they too said F.U. as Greece replied in a more diplomatic way to the that particular politician in germany, had this been the ancient times, blood would have been drawn...oh how i miss the good old days.

Originally posted by Apollumi

Originally posted by gladtobehere
They dont even feel the need to be secretive about it anymore, now they openly talk about overthrowing sovereign nations.

The people of the World really need to take our countries back.

In case you don't know it, this means you...

And what are you doing about it?

I think it's best to conduct a revolution with better numbers. Best let's hang on a bit till they really piss us all off and then we can go at it with less chance of being singled out hey?

Originally posted by Vitchilo
Germany is basically talking about forced REGIME CHANGE in Greece... that is a declaration of war.

No they didn't and no it's not.

Originally posted by gladtobehere
They dont even feel the need to be secretive about it anymore, now they openly talk about overthrowing sovereign nations.

No they don't.

Originally posted by lordlobster
How can they even do that? Germany is going to take over Greece now?

They can't and no they won't.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Germany has conquered Greece before[...] the Greek government has already been altered by Germany.. they even replaced the PM with an unelected Reserve Banker...

No they didn't. Also no and once more, no.

Schäuble and De Jager's statements here were misinterpreted, overexaggerated and taken out of context.
I oppose the excessively harsh austerity measures the Troika demanded and any plan to undermine the greek sovereignty... but I also disagree to spend even one more Cent for Greece.

In this case, all Schäuble did was defending German interests. He's doing his #ing job!
Too bad the greek politicians don't and I really whish they would, instead of playing the Nazi-card.

reply to post by ColCurious


If Germany was doing it's job, they wouldn't have given ANYTHING to Greece and kicked them out of the euro.

Germany is run by banksters puppets, just like Greece.

Originally posted by Vitchilo
Germany is run by banksters puppets, just like Greece.

So what is it now? The evil Germans or the evil banksters?

Originally posted by Vitchilo
If Germany was doing it's job, they wouldn't have given ANYTHING to Greece and kicked them out of the euro.

And I really whish we did... but apparently no one here wants to go down in history as the one who killed the €Z / EU-project... yet.

Here's still hoping that when the numbers turn bad, we will put an end to this drama once and for all.
We're Germans after all... we're all about numbers.

The only reason Greece even has a chance of getting further monies from the rest of Europe is that large European financial institutions have a ton of Greek debt on their books. Greece defaults and some very large banks go boom in need of either immediate bailout or resolution (ie bankruptcy). Any bailout of Greece is really a bailout of the financial institutions that have loaned Greece money.

But Greece is just the harbinger, once Greece actually defaults, the rest of the PIIGS are likely to follow suit. It's proper as once a country defaults it will be locked out of borrowing for at least a little while(Greece has defaulted before and it will eventually be able to access credit markets again) and will be forced to spend only what it can receive in revenue. It does not necessarily mean the end of the welfare state, but it does mean that only that which can be funded with current tax receipts will be able to be offered.

I personally believe that the countries that get their defaults out of the way first will be the first to recover.

reply to post by ColCurious

So what is it now? The evil Germans or the evil banksters?

In an article Merkel said :

“I don’t think it is right to do one new thing then do another, let’s get the ESM working,” Merkel said, reiterating that Germany was prepared to accelerate the flow of capital into the ESM ahead of its planned introduction in mid-2012.

Source

Here is what the ESM is all about. After watching the video you could answer the question you asked. The video is in English Language.



Peace

reply to post by jefwane


Indeed, we along with the rest of the problematic current member states should exit from the euro, that would only leave a handful of developed nations and a truck load of underdeveloped nations. That's when you slap a import tax to euro members states willing to trade to non euro states, at the same time re-establish limited import tax to non euro nations and expand one trades route's prior to joining the euro zone. Lets not forget, the citizens were not asked to vote on if we wanted the euro, so that alone should give the pulse of how the majority see this so called European union. Ever wondered why the Norwegian's never entered the euro zone...?

Originally posted by Vitchilo
reply to post by ColCurious

 

If Germany was doing it's job, they wouldn't have given ANYTHING to Greece and kicked them out of the euro.

Germany is run by banksters puppets, just like Greece.

Trust me Germany is doing it's job perfectly. What they try to do is to bailout their own banks and those of France. Those two countries hold most of the Greek debt. One thing you should know about declaring a default and/or bankruptcy is that there are many ways to do it. What our partners in the EU fear most is a default where all debt payments stop immediately and indefinitely. Yes, the country would in this case be on it's own for many, many years. But look at what happened in Argentina.

It's not that Germany and the rest of the EU are giving away money for nothing to Greece; it's a loan that needs to be repaid at an interest that is half of what we would have to pay right now, if we tried to borrow from the markets. So, Germany borrows at very low interest from the markets (under 1%) and then lends Greece at an interest of around 4%. It's a good deal, isn't it?

So, yeah, I wish our EU partners would decide to kick us out, but they can't do that, can they? Did you know that the Russians and the Chinese offered to borrow us at low rates, but we were not allowed to even start negotiations? I wonder why that is? What happens right now in the EU is that the Germans dictate all the rules; only the British dared to oppose them, but then the British don't really need the EU, because they have access to the huge market of the Commonwealth.

And finally a few words about cooking the books: everybody does it and did it to join the Euro, even the Germans. The only difference is in the numbers. The Germans hid around 0,5-1%, we hid around 3% when we joined the Euro. It's propaganda of the worst kind to say that the EU did not know what was happening in Greece. In 2004 when the government changed we were placed under strict financial observation for two years, so either those EU officials did not do their job well then or they just ignored all the problems. And a last word on corruption: power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The Germans who like to point the finger at us are as corrupt as any politician. Recently, their President had to resign, because of some financial irregularities. The last big corruption scandal in Greece involved the German company Siemens, which was also involved in a similar scandal in Argentina.

reply to post by Seed76

Yeah, I know about the ESM.
I'm not a fan of our current Chancellor Merkel, the EU or the EZ at all! Read my previous posts on the topic.

My point is, I would never tar all greeks with the same brush as their incompetent leaders. I like the greek. I expect the same courtesy in return.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by ColCurious

My point is, I would never tar all greeks with the same brush as their incompetent leaders.

You maybe not, but the German press for example (Bild,Focus etc.) are painting all the Greeks, with the same brush. And the funny thing is that more than 50% of the Germans are supporting those views. Almost daily for the last 2 years, the most anti-Greece propaganda, came from the German press.

As for the leaders, yes they are to blame, they are selling out my country, but on the other side your German politicians ( Herr. Rösler, Herr. Westerwelle etc), are only pouring oil to the fire with their remarks, (such as selling out our islands etc.) As for Merkel, her recipe for EU and Greece does not work. The reason is, that it was never meant to work.

Did you actually knew, that according to Mr. Albrecht Ritschl, Germany Was Biggest Debt Transgressor of 20th Century ? and further down at his interview he claims :

The Greeks are very well aware of the antagonistic articles in the German media. If the mood in the country turns, old claims for reparations could be raised, from other European nations as well. And if Germany ever had to honor them, we would all be taken the cleaners. Compared with that, we can be grateful that Greece is being indulgently reorganized at our expense. If we follow public opinion here with its cheap propaganda and not wanting to pay, then eventually the old bills will be presented again.

I like the greek. I expect the same courtesy in return.

I also like the German, but all these stereotypes concerning Greece and the Greek people, are getting really on the nerve of the Greek person. We might be in debt-crisis, but we are also have our dignity and pride.


(PS.: Sorry if my previous post have offended you. It was not my intention.)

Peace

Originally posted by Heros_son
reply to post by colin42

 

The Greeks dug their own hole. The debt stems from the countless entitlements. It's a shining example of why "nanny states" don't work.

People can, and have, taken to the streets. Shouting blame, and pointing fingers, and of course acting violently. It was predictable that riots would start.

A little individual responsibility, and hard work would have avoided this mess.

Keep "hard work" for yourself!
Work: [color=Lime]yes, hard work: no thx!

Greets from Greece,
Ko3

Originally posted by Hellas

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by Vitchilo

 

Germany has conquered Greece before .. what's new? This time they did it without guns at least.

The only irony I see is that the Greek government has already been altered by Germany.. they even replaced the PM with an unelected Reserve Banker..

When did that happen? Greece got invaded by the Germans but was never conquered

edit on 16-2-2012 by Hellas because: (no reason given)

en.wikipedia.org...

conqueredpast participle, past tense of con·quer (Verb)
Verb:

Overcome and take control of (a place or people) by use of military force.
Successfully overcome (a problem or weakness).

Greece was Conquered.. they had to be liberated.

reply to post by Seed76

I agree. I don't even consider Bild as a serious newsletter and Focus isn't really much better. Pretty much everyone I know would agree on that. I really doubt that more than 50% here support said views.
Nonetheless, the anti-greek sentiment is foul and the respective media outlets are a disgrace for their profession. No argument here.

I also read the Spiegel article before, but I disagree with Ritschl's position. Germany and the Allies made agreements regarding the WWII reparations and those agreements are valid. They have been for half a century now.