"180" Movie - A Few Minutes that may change your mind about Abortion

reply to post by Evanzsayz


The point is that it is impractical to make thousands of laws, for all the thousands of scenarios that could be possible. That's why it should be left up to the court system to ultimately use their discretion.

reply to post by Believer101

So you get called out by multiple people to prove your point, and all you do is personally attack people? I'm not an "abortion loving" person. I personally hate it as I've had to live through it. However, that doesn't mean abortion should be illegal. It should be a choice for every woman out there that's in a tough situation.

I wasn't personally attacking anyone sorry if you took it that way. I'm just saying the majority of ATS believes its okay to do from threads I have read about abortion and I never said you was an abortion loving person, I have lived through it myself as well and I hate myself for it. That's why I hate abortions because that baby of MINE I will never know and it never got a chance to live. I agree abortion should not be illegal but you have to draw the line when its right or wrong. If some 15 year old girl gets pregnant from some man that raped her I would have no objection to getting an abortion as long as it was before the 2nd trimester. It's not just the womans choice either its take two to tango the man should have a say in it as well.

Originally posted by Evanzsayz
reply to post by Believer101

 

So you get called out by multiple people to prove your point, and all you do is personally attack people? I'm not an "abortion loving" person. I personally hate it as I've had to live through it. However, that doesn't mean abortion should be illegal. It should be a choice for every woman out there that's in a tough situation.

I wasn't personally attacking anyone sorry if you took it that way. I'm just saying the majority of ATS believes its okay to do from threads I have read about abortion and I never said you was an abortion loving person, I have lived through it myself as well and I hate myself for it. That's why I hate abortions because that baby of MINE I will never know and it never got a chance to live. I agree abortion should not be illegal but you have to draw the line when its right or wrong. If some 15 year old girl gets pregnant from some man that raped her I would have no objection to getting an abortion as long as it was before the 2nd trimester. It's not just the womans choice either its take two to tango the man should have a say in it as well.

Exactly, an anti abortion law, would mean that the girl gets no abortion, so you are pro choice. Pro choice, isn't about just have all the sex you want, be irresponsible its okay! Its about having the discretion capabilities to make the decision.

reply to post by Believer101

Sometimes, not having the child is the most responsible thing to do.

Sorry but the responsible thing to do, is to live up to the things you do and not take the easy way out.

Youd think those fools would focus on the children that have already been born before crying about theoretical non-child clumps of cells.

Ther are tons of kids starving out there GO do something about that....

Originally posted by Believer101
It should be a choice for every woman out there that's in a tough situation.

Please give me an example of a "tough situation" that doesn't include rape, incest, or medical necessity, because that's all I'm hearing from you people to justify the reality of the situation.

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by Believer101
It should be a choice for every woman out there that's in a tough situation.

Please give me an example of a "tough situation" that doesn't include rape, incest, or medical necessity, because that's all I'm hearing from you people to justify the reality of the situation.

Those are the tough situations. Its not to justify anything. Having an anti abortion law, means no one gets an abortion period. Not having it means its open ended for discretion. Nobody here is going on and on about how fun it is to get one, or how they're getting one all the time because they just can't handle themselves. For most people it is a one time thing. There is a small % that abuses the system, as in everything. It's not going to be outlawed for that.

Originally posted by andersensrm

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by Believer101
It should be a choice for every woman out there that's in a tough situation.

Please give me an example of a "tough situation" that doesn't include rape, incest, or medical necessity, because that's all I'm hearing from you people to justify the reality of the situation.

Those are the tough situations.

Yeah you're damn right those are THE tough situations. That's why I asked any one of you to provide me with an example that doesn't include one of the above.

edit on 21-2-2012 by Bone75 because: (no reason given)

reply to post by Bone75


I don't get it, you sound pretty angry you should cool off maybe you'll be more clear in your understanding of what everybody is saying here.

Originally posted by andersensrm
reply to post by Bone75

 

I don't get it, you sound pretty angry you should cool off maybe you'll be more clear in your understanding of what everybody is saying here.

I'm angry because you guys act as if you are oblivious to the reality of the situation. You are diminishing the REAL heart-wrenching decisions by exploiting them to support your position.

So I will ask again, could any one of you please give me an example of a "tough situation" that does not include rape, incest, or medical necessity?

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by andersensrm
reply to post by Bone75

 

I don't get it, you sound pretty angry you should cool off maybe you'll be more clear in your understanding of what everybody is saying here.

I'm angry because you guys act as if you are oblivious to the reality of the situation. You are diminishing the REAL heart-wrenching decisions by exploiting them to support your position.

So I will ask again, could any one of you please give me an example of a "tough situation" that does not include rape, incest, or medical necessity?

edit on 21-2-2012 by Bone75 because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-2-2012 by Bone75 because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-2-2012 by Bone75 because: (no reason given)

I've never advocated abortion as birth control so I dunno what you mean tough situation other than........ Or maybe I didn't' make myself clear, so here goes: I only support an abortion under limited circumstances, those circumstances would have to be medically necessary, rape, incest or some other situation that would immediately endanger the life of the mother. Simply using abortion as birth control because you can't 'buy a rubber is insane..... there's RU486 is that's what you really need.

Originally posted by Evanzsayz
reply to post by Believer101

 

Sometimes, not having the child is the most responsible thing to do.

Sorry but the responsible thing to do, is to live up to the things you do and not take the easy way out.

No, the responsible thing to do is to take the easy way out if there is one.

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by Believer101
It should be a choice for every woman out there that's in a tough situation.

Please give me an example of a "tough situation" that doesn't include rape, incest, or medical necessity, because that's all I'm hearing from you people to justify the reality of the situation.

How about a woman that was in my situation. No where to live. No money. No food or water. Living on the street.
The most responsible thing I could have done if I were pregnant was to get an abortion. It would not have been responsible of me to have a child when I couldn't even feed myself.

Originally posted by Evanzsayz
reply to post by Believer101

 

Sometimes, not having the child is the most responsible thing to do.

Sorry but the responsible thing to do, is to live up to the things you do and not take the easy way out.

No, it is most definitely NOT the "easy way out". Would you like to have more children in foster care and abortions? Would you like more children to be unloved, uncared for, starving?
Again, sometimes not having the child is the most responsible thing to do.

Originally posted by Leonidas

Ok, I'll use small words, try to keep up.

Oh wow, so you try to insult my intelligence and you think that's a good argument?...

Originally posted by Leonidas
1. Where in my statement does it say that parents own their children?

People like you claim a fetus is part of a woman's body. Didn't every human in this world developed from a fetus?...

If a fetus is the property of a woman, then the individual that develops from that fetus is property of that woman as well.

Originally posted by Leonidas
2. If a fetus is not part of a woman's body how long would an undeveloped fetus survive outside her?

How long would an already born child survive on it's own in the streets?...

How long would a 2 year old survive on it's own on the streets?...

This argument has no base whatsoever. A fetus can survive if it is kept in vitro, just like a child 2 months old or 7 years old can survive if some other family helps them, or someone helps them...

Originally posted by Leonidas
3. Only government or religious organizations have claimed the right to regulate a woman's reproductive system. Or are you advocating roaming gangs of random citizens to enforce your will on pregnant woman,

I have never claimed any right to regulate anything. I gave my opinion and that's it. I don't profess the right to force people to do my will and NOWHERE in my statements would you find me saying "YOU SHALL DO AS I COMMAND"...

I am giving my opinion, if any woman wants to kill their unborn child that's up to them, it still doesn't change the fact that people like you have devalued human life, and killing a fetus is killing a developing human being...

Originally posted by Leonidas
4. It is perfectly clear how you came to be so misguided. You made at least three sweeping generalizations that have no foundation in fact, nor evidence in my original post. I know people like you don't like to listen to opinions you disagree with, but if you are going to be part of the conversation, try and understand it first.

I have become misguided?... i am not the one devaluing human life and saying "it is ok to kill a fetus"...

Like I said before it is increadibly ironic that the same people who say "it is ok to kill a fetus" are the same ones who cry, and moan about the treatment to chickens, or moan and whine about how animals which are used by humans for consumption are raised...

I am not condoning abuse of animals, but what I am saying is that it is ironic that the same people who say it is ok to kill HUMAN FETUSES moan and whine about "what happens to chickens since they are born"...

That in itself tells me a great deal about what kind of people I am talking to.

Originally posted by Bone75

I'm angry because you guys act as if you are oblivious to the reality of the situation. You are diminishing the REAL heart-wrenching decisions by exploiting them to support your position.

So I will ask again, could any one of you please give me an example of a "tough situation" that does not include rape, incest, or medical necessity?

I can understand if the life of the woman is at stake. Unfortunately yes there are women who are raped and become pregnant from that rape. But does killing the unborn child erase the rape? Half of that unborn child is part of the woman, and the other half really had no say on the matter of the rape.

A woman that is raped will need psychological counseling, and other help, but killing that child will not erase the rape or make the woman forget about the rape.

Many of the children who are in foster care and are not adopted are not babies, but already grown children who are several years old.

Foster parents in general are more willing to adopt a baby, than a child that is 6 years old, although there are exceptions to this of course.

There are plenty of parent out there that cannot have babies and would adopt a baby.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

people like you have devalued human life, and killing a fetus is killing a developing human being...

Id say the opposite is also true. Comparing sentient developed human being as an equal with an embryo or even a fetilised egg DEVALUES human life.

Originally posted by Maslo
Id say the opposite is also true. Comparing sentient developed human being as an equal with an embryo or even a fetilised egg DEVALUES human life.

Hence the word DEVELOPING. We are all developing human beings. Who you were when you were 5 years old was not the same person as when you turned 15... Are you now exactly the same individual as you were at 15 years old? or did you change?...

Your argument holds no truth whatsoever. A fertilized egg is the starting stage of a human being, it is going to change and develop into a grown person, but that human being is going to continue developing until the day he/she dies.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by Maslo
Id say the opposite is also true. Comparing sentient developed human being as an equal with an embryo or even a fetilised egg DEVALUES human life.

Hence the word DEVELOPING. We are all developing human beings. Who you were when you were 5 years old was not the same person as when you turned 15... Are you now exactly the same individual as you were at 15 years old? or did you change?...

Your argument holds no truth whatsoever. A fertilized egg is the starting stage of a human being, it is going to change and develop into a grown person, but that human being is going to continue developing until the day he/she dies.

Sometimes the fertilized egg ends up getting flushed out, what do you do about that? Do we arrest all the women for being murderers for not being able to control a non controllable body function?

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

Hence the word DEVELOPING.

But I dont care one bit whether it is developing or not, only the present state is important. Until it has actually reached a certain stage of development, it has no rights.