Norway Vs U.S. Prison System

Norway Vs U.S. Prison System.

Should the US prison continue to be a place to be feared by people for its dangers, hygiene, anti-social community and the rest you can think of which make US prisons "funn" to be? Or should things change which make things better for the prisoners and not to forget the guards?

Would you think that the surroundings of inmates and certain basic, standard previleges would contribute to society and make these criminals better men?

Can it be that the american prisons are part of the crime problem in the US?




The previous Young Turks they refered to.



To give a good impression of how things are in an average american prison,

Considering that the US is heading more and more towards a private prison system, it doesn't make sense to offer an environment that encourages inmates to leave their previous life styles behind. Europe and US are heading in complete opposite direction when it comes to how to rehabilitate the inmates.

Speaking as someone who works (as a Nurse) in a Criminal Justice setting in the UK. We do not tend to have the 'in-house' violence that the US system seems to have. We do have violence at times but not on the same levels as US prisons. The big difference of UK ones to US ones are that ALL UK prisons would be considered 'Federal' prisons to the US. This means that prisoners can and are moved around the estate across the country so gangs are not formed or are easily broken up. In the UK all prisoners have to attend a rehabilitation program or they are not likely to get parole.

From the TV programs that I have seen on the US system, the guards always seem to be confrontational to me, maybe it is just what is shown. In the UK, it used to be that way when HM Prison Service had Crown Immunity, but now, the Prison Officers are more like social workers.

reply to post by zatara


I would love to know what big gangs are represented in Norway...how much inmate on inmate violence there is...are the prisons in norway primarily made up of Norwegians? Is there a healthy mix of ethnic rivalries? Seeing that the US is dealing with major gangs such as Bloods, Crips, La Familia, Latin Kings and the worst of the worst MS-13 and now throw in a healthy does of Asian Gangs which all come down killing each other over territory and drug dealing I'm pretty sure if Norway had the same issue around the US they would be in the same boat. I would also ask how much illegal immigration is coming into Norway to conduct such crime? It's a hole different world in the US versus Norway but I would love to be proven wrong providing you have statistics to prove otherwise? Might we also compare the prisons of the US to Russia/ Taiwan or maybe Iraq for comparison purposes? Perhaps North Korea has some wonderful accomodations for their prisoners...Trust me it's not the prison that are so bad it's the inmates..

reply to post by Wotan


whats the rate of recidivism for your standard inmate doing under five years? And for a point of fact people who offend on a lesser charge more often than not are not considered to have replapsed meaning they don't get factored in to the percentage of total inmates who reoffend...it's only if they commit a similiar charge or higher end charge...both countries and states use this at times to give a false perception and they do it here in Boston..

reply to post by chrismarco


I'm pretty sure the laws are shaping the gang culture in the US, I do believe there is a great historical reference called prohibition. And it only went downhill from there.

reply to post by boncho


i would disagree as more and more kids at younger ages are getting involved in gangs...but we can agree to disagree

Originally posted by chrismarco
reply to post by boncho

 

i would disagree as more and more kids at younger ages are getting involved in gangs...but we can agree to disagree

No we can't agree to disagree. Because if more and more kids are getting involved in gangs, there is a reason for it. Not "Well that just happens nowadays."

And actually, there were plenty of gangs in other times as well, but perhaps with a different focus.

US laws are shaping the criminal element, not the other way around.

Originally posted by boncho

Originally posted by chrismarco
reply to post by boncho

 

i would disagree as more and more kids at younger ages are getting involved in gangs...but we can agree to disagree

No we can't agree to disagree. Because if more and more kids are getting involved in gangs, there is a reason for it. Not "Well that just happens nowadays."

And actually, there were plenty of gangs in other times as well, but perhaps with a different focus.

US laws are shaping the criminal element, not the other way around.

Agreed brother. I'd say more than just laws as well. These kids are finding less and less opportunities now and I won't say it's even limited to the inner city. The economy is making things worse. Change the economic system and reduce scope of federal government and success will follow. Notice I said reduced you dang Federalis, don't go about installing more of your bs government to protect me from these terrorist, I'll handle on my own.

Wow.

Comparing apples to tanks.

Two completely different cultures will provide inmates with two completely different sets of requirements.

It's not like you can just jazz up some US prisons and expect lollipops and rainbows.

AHAH Unbelieveable.

The retreat. That norway prison is amazing. I'm going to commit me some crimes whilst over there and forcefully extend my holiday.

It's crazy... But it does seem to work. 20% recividism rate compared to 60% in the US.

Did you see the US prison? Its a large racists gang-war going on in there. Caucasians, Asians, African Americans, Latinos / Hispanics.
Who cares about personality? Lets separate into race.

Originally posted by Shred
Considering that the US is heading more and more towards a private prison system, it doesn't make sense to offer an environment that encourages inmates to leave their previous life styles behind. Europe and US are heading in complete opposite direction when it comes to how to rehabilitate the inmates.

Okay...what do you think? Will this complete opposite direction be in favour of society?

Wheb I was in grade school, iremember my mom breaking down and crying because my father had been laid off, and she was having to cancel cable on the same day a news story ran about the state prison installing cable for the prisoners.

There are thousands of law-abiding citizens in this country that are living below the standards that our prisoners do. They are more of a concern to me.

Originally posted by chrismarco
reply to post by zatara

 

I would love to know what big gangs are represented in Norway...how much inmate on inmate violence there is...are the prisons in norway primarily made up of Norwegians? Is there a healthy mix of ethnic rivalries? Seeing that the US is dealing with major gangs such as Bloods, Crips, La Familia, Latin Kings and the worst of the worst MS-13 and now throw in a healthy does of Asian Gangs which all come down killing each other over territory and drug dealing I'm pretty sure if Norway had the same issue around the US they would be in the same boat. I would also ask how much illegal immigration is coming into Norway to conduct such crime? It's a hole different world in the US versus Norway but I would love to be proven wrong providing you have statistics to prove otherwise? Might we also compare the prisons of the US to Russia/ Taiwan or maybe Iraq for comparison purposes? Perhaps North Korea has some wonderful accomodations for their prisoners...Trust me it's not the prison that are so bad it's the inmates..

Norway can be far away, cold and near where Santa lives but they have all kinds of races nationalities and criminals too. but as it seems not that many. But the question is...would a change in housing, priviliges and counseling contribute to the deminishing of crime.

Is the US government handling the prison system completely wrong? Do they know this and is the governments solution to privatice prisons and shove away their creation and responsibillity? Will things go worse, will there be hope or will it stay the same no matter what you do?

reply to post by Wotan


Because you have first hand experiance I would like to ask you if you consider the american criminal community within the prison more anti-social and harsh then the UK-inmate community?

I understand that you can only base your opinion from what you have seen on TV-docu's but if there is you would surely notice I think.

Here in The Netherlands we have pretty simular prison conditions as the Norwegian and from what I know our prisons are not that dangerous and violent. Being raped is not something of your daily worries...so to speak.

How come there is such a brutal, primitive and offensive mentallity in the US prisons? Has it always been that way?

Maybe you can not give an answer to these questions, so anybody reading this reply and is familiar with the US prison culture please enlighten us...me.

Originally posted by zatara
reply to post by Wotan

 

Because you have first hand experiance I would like to ask you if you consider the american criminal community within the prison more anti-social and harsh then the UK-inmate community?

I understand that you can only base your opinion from what you have seen on TV-docu's but if there is you would surely notice I think.

Here in The Netherlands we have pretty simular prison conditions as the Norwegian and from what I know our prisons are not that dangerous and violent. Being raped is not something of your daily worries...so to speak.

How come there is such a brutal, primitive and offensive mentallity in the US prisons? Has it always been that way?

Maybe you can not give an answer to these questions, so anybody reading this reply and is familiar with the US prison culture please enlighten us...me.

From what I have seen on the TV, I would say yes, that US prisons are more anti-social than UK ones. Mind you I cannot speak for all UK prisons ( I cover a 3 prison cluster - 2 B Cats, 1 C Cat).

Male rape in UK prisons is fortunately rare. However, consensual sex is quite common, though is classed as an offence in the UK system. Sex in prison, apart from Gay partnerships is usually the result of becoming 'in-debt' to another prisoner and of having to pay off the debt.

I put the brutality and primitive behavious of US prisons down to the way the US prison system is run and of the large size of the prison population. US prisons are run on a state and federal system, so 'local gangs tend to meet up again once inside, in a state prison, so are not broken up like in the UK. There is also the gang culture outside of prison, which is a huge problem in the US. US prison guards also tend to be confrontational from what I have seen.

In the UK as well, we tend to place the various similar offence type prisoners together, so sex offenders tend to go the same prisons, murders go to a different one etc etc. The cluster I work in is primarily a sex offender prison, so consists of rapists, pedophiles and VPs (Vulnerable Prisoners) and addicts, as well as local remands

reply to post by Wotan


The way you describe it there has been much thought put into it to make the UK prisons a better place for the inmates and the people who work there.

I find it odd that the US federal government is not able to think in those lines. They spent a fortune on housing and keeping the prisons running but it seems that they consider the social aspects of little importance.

I bet that there are Harvard or other serious university graduates studying this problem and are able to come up with acceptable solutions. But for some reason it will never happen...things are getting worse.

Because this is a conspiracy web-site one should almost think that the US prison system is designed to create and school criminals. When they will be released in society some of them will have more criminal skills and have gained a twisted sense of moral.

Originally posted by peck420
Wow.

Comparing apples to tanks.

Two completely different cultures will provide inmates with two completely different sets of requirements.

It's not like you can just jazz up some US prisons and expect lollipops and rainbows.

So in other words, you are saying the US has a criminal culture. Or a culture that is more prone to be criminally oriented. Being that the rates of incarceration and recidivism are higher...

Am I right?

I may regret bringing this up, but try comparing the US and Norweigan Prison Inmate populations as regards to race and nationality origin - This is probably where the answer lies.

Ive thought a lot about this. Ive asked myself whether the reason Norway can afford this is because they are oil-rich and have such a low population (5 Million) that they dont have many inmates.

Im pretty sure there is something very wrong with american prisons, but wouldnt be sure that transfering the norwegian model could work. I think what might work is having the prisoners give back to society with some kind of work that benefits society. And then, through that work, they could earn themselves a nicer prison environment. That should work better for the U.S. imo.