What the Pentagon Guard Told Me About 9/11

reply to post by smyleegrl

Sigh. You really are an unpleasant person when you create posts like those above. Why this need to constantly criticize?

That's suprising coming from a person who seems to really admire their friend (Norma?) for calling a serviceman a liar! Yet you don't like any criticism.

I started to write a lengthy response to you, but decided its simply not worth my time. I do not owe you any explanations.

Why don't you just give us an idea of what standards you plan to apply when you are doing your research.

Kindly find some other thread to mock.

I am perfectly willing to multitask.

reply to post by hooper

I am perfectly willing to multitask

I could not help but wonder, so I have to ask.

Does this have anything to do with a "daisy-chain"??

reply to post by smyleegrl


Just to add my own story. (Long time lurker here) I was a Police officer on Capitol Hill during 9/11. I will say that I never really saw any planes or terrorists or little green or grey men ... but I sure heard a lot of stories about what other people saw. Strange things.

A co-worker told me they saw the hijacked plane fly near the Capitol. "That's impossible!" I would say. "No, really...It was so close I could see people looking out the windows." He would respond. Soon after the story became a virus. I would often run into other officers telling the same story.

"I saw the plane" they would say. No matter how much I questioned their claims they would defend it. They would tell me they saw the numbers on the side, the scratches on the paint and the fearful faces in the windows.

I never believed them. I was outside that day. I never saw a plane, never even heard an explosion. I saw people screaming, running through the streets and confusion but nothing more than that.

I visited the Pentagon site the day after the crash and ran into a few more local officers who told more crazy stories. At the time, fresh from the disaster I wasn't thinking conspiracy and I am sure no one else was. It was just weird these three officers I ran into started babbling about 'White planes."

One officer was sure he saw this "White plane" land on the National Mall. Again I said "That’s Impossible!" (I say that a lot) Another would tell the story about seeing the white cargo plan flying overhead at the time of the crash.

I believe lots of people believe what they want to believe and see what they want too. They have told themselves the stories to be true or are just fabricating the entire thing just to impress me. No one saw anything that day.

reply to post by takaris7


Not true:

No one saw anything that day.

There are documented witnesses to American Airlines 77 hitting the Pentagon. The airplane was visually identified by pilots and air traffic controllers. Because of line-of-sight issues and actually being unable to see the exact location of impact, as it occurred, these people did not see it happen AT impact. However, it was clear to those who are experienced in aviation, what occurred.

The people who DID witness the actual impact were mostly laypeople....although one person who was on 395 in his car is a pilot (not as a profession) and he witnessed the impact. The number who have come forward on record amount to about 100.

Your anecdotal recollection shows how people will make rumors from these sorts of confusing events, and it is Human nature. It is a bit of that kid's game of "telephone", too.

Rumor, gossip.....and, later when there are those who want to see a "conspiracy" (where none exists) they latch on to anything that they can, like that....embellishing as they need, in order to promote their own brand of nonsense.

What I meant to say was that none of the people I talked too really saw anything...

Originally posted by ProudBird
reply to post by takaris7

 

Not true:

No one saw anything that day.

There are documented witnesses to American Airlines 77 hitting the Pentagon. The airplane was visually identified by pilots and air traffic controllers. Because of line-of-sight issues and actually being unable to see the exact location of impact, as it occurred, these people did not see it happen AT impact. However, it was clear to those who are experienced in aviation, what occurred.

The people who DID witness the actual impact were mostly laypeople....although one person who was on 395 in his car is a pilot (not as a profession) and he witnessed the impact. The number who have come forward on record amount to about 100.

Your anecdotal recollection shows how people will make rumors from these sorts of confusing events, and it is Human nature. It is a bit of that kid's game of "telephone", too.

Rumor, gossip.....and, later when there are those who want to see a "conspiracy" (where none exists) they latch on to anything that they can, like that....embellishing as they need, in order to promote their own brand of nonsense.

reply to post by takaris7


Yes, indeed.

Your personal experience helped to show clearly how the "conspiracy" developed....it was cases like those that have led to all sorts of outrageous claims since....that have taken on lives of their own, in some cases, due to the intentional promotion by a few unscrupulous people who saw a profit opportunity to play off of.

Pure and simple.

So-called "9/11 Truth" is a sham, and a business model designed for profit, for a select few. There are others who are merely unwittingly perpetuating the many shams, and are therefore victims in a sense. Especially victimized if they have actually spent money on these wild goose chases.

reply to post by takaris7


Actually, the guy who told you about the "cargo plane" was probably right if he meant this C130 :-

www.youtube.com...

Thank you very much to everyone who posted in this thread. I haven't come to any solid conclusions one way or the other, but I do feel comfortable in saying that the OS seems more feasible to me now. Most of the posts in support of the OS were very logical, well-written, and presented in a credible manner.

I still have some questions, such as the alleged documents that were destroyed at the Pentagon or the Towers. Perhaps a motive, perhaps not. Although honestly, if you wanted to destroy documents I would think you could do so without using a jet plane.

Thanks again, everyone! On to the next topic!

reply to post by Alfie1

....if he meant this C130....

There was also an E-4B in the vicinity. Radio call sign Venus77. It was launched after American 77 hit the Pentagon.

It took off from Andrews AFB at about 0943 EDT. Recall that AAL 77 struck at 0937 EDT.


The E-4B is used as a support aircraft for Air Force One. "Venus77" was launched to be airborne and act in that support as Bush was about to go airborne on AF1 down in Florida. When you listen, you will hear it cleared for takeoff on Runway 1....this means it was headed north at that point.

Then listen as they contact Washington Departure.


Here is a YouTube video with the actual Air Traffic Control recordings. I can guarantee that these are real, they are authentic, this IS how it really sounds (unlike what you may see on TV or in movies....Hollywood rarely gets it right).

Some confusion for laypersons arise because a Controller is also taped whenever he/she is talking on landlines, too. And/or, they can also be on more than one radio frequency, and this is all recorded on one tape. Also, it includes both the Andrews Tower, and the Departure Control....different Controllers, different frequencies. It is to "follow along" with "Venus 77" for clarity:



@2:44 the Tower controller is passing on the information about "Venus 77" on the landlline.

@3:15 "Venus 77" calls Departure.

@3:30, the Departure Controller asks their intentions....because, note that they were scrambled on short notice, and have NO filed Flight Plan. The pilot responds that they want to go direct to Wright-Patterson. This is the AFB in Ohio. They turn now to a 330° heading. Andrews AFB is to the East, and slightly South, of the Pentagon, and the Washington, D.C. area. 330%deg is North/Northwest.

The video shows blue dots to represent the ground track.

Listen to the conversation between two Controllers on the landline. Then:

@5:00, the crew informs the Controller of a change in plans. Obviously, because the Secret Service is still deciding what to do with the President, and AF1. They request a holding pattern, South of DC. (Holding patterns are common, it is a way to keep an airplane in flight in a general area.

The Controller tells them to turn right from 330° to 340°....then, when he hears their request to hold, he clears them to just continue the right turn now to the South, or 180°.

So you can listen, and watch....and see how the reports of the "mystery white jet" over DC came about ......


Some "conspiracy theorists" have tried to claim that the E-4B was there in the sky to somehow "direct the attack". This is nonsense.

Edit....and note, even in the confusion, the Controller gets it wrong as to type of airplane. Several times he tells others it's a "757"....when in fact, the E-4B is a 747. (Remember, he has no info on the flight, except a verbal from someone else. He has no "Data Strip", nor the info in the Radar data block on his radar screen. In hindsight, he should have called the flight to ask their airplane type. Again, this shows Human fallibility, and the reality of the situation, and the stress).

This is part of and an example of the sort of confusion that reigned that morning.

reply to post by Jaellma


It would have been highway 110. The 14th street bridge is on the opposite side.
The plane pretty much travelled over Columbia Pike, 27 and Highway 110 - which is right next to the Pentagon. Those are always busy streets with tons of cars on them plus Crystal City/Pentagon City are within eyeshot. If it was anything other than a plane someone would have said something.

reply to post by ProudBird


There were plenty of planes and helicopters in the air over DC after it happened. I was personally there to assist Generals that were taken from the Pentagon to Bolling AFB by helicopter to the Bolling where they set up a command post to assit in directing military operations. Besides that, DIA is also right there, some went there.