Glendale Police shoot and Kill grandfather with granchild in arms

www.myfoxphoenix.com...

They claim that they had to shoot because they felt threatened by the grandfather who was holding his grandchild in his arms at the time.

what did they feel threatened from?, was he holding a loaded grandchild?
then the other Police spoksman comes on and said
"Police are feeling more and more in danger these days" I say ##SNIP##

It seems more and more like police are just deciding to kill, for no apearant reason what so ever, even for just rolling your window up.
The real truth is, you are more likely to get killed by a cop for almost nothing these days, it seems like they want a revolution. if they keep acting like this there are those out there that just might give it them.
How long can you kill and stomp those you are supposed to protect, before they stand up and fight back? how long?

hold tight.. our resident "enforcer" will be here soon to explain to us all just how were overreacting
to the msm and the officer was within his/her rights to kill a civilian... sigh... agian...

yep.. it does indeed seem from the impartial observer that either

A. someone's winding up cops to a point were they feel the need to just blow stuff away 1st.. ask questions latter

B. we civilians really are getting "out of hand"

C. its all a ploy to wind us up so we snap and then they instigate martial law with due cause

I dunno.. but it seems to be verry closely spaced together and seems about one a day past few days.. that cant be normal.. can it? fair enough for some armed thug running riot.. but unarmed civilians.. cmon! this can't be the norm

I'll just sit back and wait for "that guy" to arrive and tell us what's what i think

Police are feeling more and more in danger? I'll buy that it sounds accurate enough. Now I'll give 'em a big cookie to tell everyone the OTHER half of that and why cops feel more and more in danger.

Once upon a time, Cop Shops recruited military vets and various types of badass that COULD handle going toe to toe with a drunk biker in a bar fight and not die in the fight. These days? They recruit college kids and shun those who have colorful backgrounds which may suggest the ability to handle themselves.

So.. Have the streets changed? Kinda..but the cops have changed MUCH more. Where once we had cops who got violent when they had to because they KNEW they could and they'd win.......now, we have cops who go violent because they HAVE to and understand if they don't get the advantage right from the word Go, they don't have the balls or the brawn to recapture the advantage...and they'll lose.

Dump the college kids...get more Vets and others with nothing left to prove to the world and the quiet confidence of BEING capable, not just looking capable. We won't have as many unarmed Grandfathers shot to death with children in their arms.

This is only the beginning. We are being desensitized slowly for the horrors that are to come. When we start turning a blind eye is when they'll have us.

reply to post by superjesse13132000


Why did you fail to mention he was also pointing a gun when arguing with his neighbors?

From your source:

About 6 p.m. Tuesday, police received a 911 call that a man was arguing with two of his neighbors while holding his grandchild and pointing a gun.

See ya,
Milt

TextSCOTTSDALE - One person is dead following an officer-involved shooting in south Scottsdale, near 77th St and Garfield. About 6 p.m. Tuesday, police received a 911 call that a man was arguing with two of his neighbors while holding his grandchild and pointing a gun.

from your source id have to say grand child or not you dont tend to get away with pointing a gun at cops for long and while not a fan of police brutality or their tactics this seems pretty clear cut guy had a gun pointed it and seemed to think holding a kid was a get out of getting shot free card and it didnt seem to work stupid and cowardly move on his part trying to use a kid like that unless its now customary to duel with your neighbors at 50 paces wtih first born grandchildren in your arms

reply to post by BenReclused


I seen this also.. But it did not say he was armed when they shot him.

According to the report, he was supposedly arguing with neighbors and had a gun with him while holding the baby when the police were called.

When the cops arrived, they felt threatened and fired a single shot, killing the man on the scene.

While I would normally side with the dead man, but I find this too weird to rule a simple officer shooting to me. I think it is possible he was still presenting the weapon when the police arrived and they killed him because he was flashing a gun. But if that's the case, I want to see the weapon he was pointing at the officers. Otherwise, I will assume the police shot simply because they could and they felt "threatened."

It just seems like what used to end with a negotiator or wife on a megaphone, ends more and more with shoot to kill FIRST, and then you throw in cops just shooting vets in-front of their kids, and sunday school teachers looking for a job, who just dudnt want to talk, and things change a lot.

its the spirtit of the climate im pointing out, seems to me, "meet a cop, prepare for it to possibly be your last day on earth", even if you called them to help"you".

not good,not good at all.

reply to post by FTD Brat

You took the words from my mouth. I was just coming back to say something very similar after reading more about this. They definitely got a call about a Man with a Gun, and Neighbors definitely reported he was menacing them with a weapon. The story isn't saying he pointed a weapon at police or that THEY actually even saw one. Perhaps they did.... Perhaps this was a real evil Grandpa and was aiming out at them from behind his Grandchild.

I'm with you on wanting more than assumptions though. Since even the cops aren't talking about exactly what they saw or heard before shooting him...something smells here. When they can, they are Johnny on the Spot for saying who, what and which caliber weapon the bad guy had. This one is REAL vague. Not good...not for first impressions anyway.

reply to post by SkipperJohn


It didn't say he was unarmed either. Considering the 911 call, I'm sure they considered him to be armed. I would have.

See ya,
Milt

Originally posted by FTD Brat
According to the report, he was supposedly arguing with neighbors and had a gun with him while holding the baby when the police were called.

When the cops arrived, they felt threatened and fired a single shot, killing the man on the scene.

While I would normally side with the dead man, but I find this too weird to rule a simple officer shooting to me. I think it is possible he was still presenting the weapon when the police arrived and they killed him because he was flashing a gun. But if that's the case, I want to see the weapon he was pointing at the officers. Otherwise, I will assume the police shot simply because they could and they felt "threatened."

edit on 14-2-2012 by FTD Brat because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-2-2012 by FTD Brat because: (no reason given)

What if the man had a license for the gun and was protecting his grandchild from either an attack or the neighbors with it?

Do the police automatically kill anyone with a gun as long as you are not the one who made the call?

Why would anyone use a gun to protect themselves or their home if
when the Police finally do arrive they simply shoot ANYONE WITH A GUN?

Originally posted by BenReclused
reply to post by SkipperJohn

 

It didn't say he was unarmed either. Considering the 911 call, I'm sure they considered him to be armed. I would have.

See ya,
Milt

I can't see ya Milt...this is the internet.

Just because a man is armed does not make him a criminal.

We have gun laws and people have legal rights to walk almost anywhere with their registered handgun.

These actions are terrible to be sure, but every time I read one of these threads people are always saying, 'we need to fight back, we need to show them we won't be pushed around anymore!!!' As much as I hate hearing these police brutality stories, there isn't really a whole lot us normal folk can do. I mean sure, I could go out right now, and maybe kill a cop or two. I could yell from the rooftops that this stuff needs to stop, while hurling a hail of gunfire on random cops that had nothing to do with these cases. But now would that really accomplish anything? No.

There is nothing we can do except maybe raise awareness. I never hear these stories on the CBS Evening News. Nancy Grace is always worried about some little girl that's missing, so that takes up her outlet. Conservative outlets are too busy talking $hit about the president. If somebody wants to do something about these instances, the best thing to do is raise awareness on something further than a goddamned message board. All I ever see here is, 'we should do something about this.' Well either go on a cop killing spree or raise more Mainstream Media Awareness.

reply to post by newcovenant


I can see you though...

Just because the grandfather was holding his grandchild doesn't mean he was harmless either. None of us know enough about the situation to make a judgement either way. Yet here we are, doing exactly that...

I enjoyed your comment about my "See ya".

See ya,
Milt

Originally posted by BenReclused
reply to post by newcovenant

 

I can see you though...

Just because the grandfather was holding his grandchild doesn't mean he was harmless either. None of us know enough about the situation to make a judgement either way. Yet here we are, doing exactly that...

I enjoyed your comment about my "See ya".

See ya,
Milt

edit on 14-2-2012 by BenReclused because: Typo

Milt ...It appears that the Police Officer in this case did decide to make a judgement, a final and irreversible judgement (grandpa is dead now - a family is torn apart and a little girl probably will never be "right" again) on the basis of what he saw (the man was holding a gun - totally legal in many circumstances if you ask any NRA supporter) and hear-say evidence (i.e. the neighbors side of it).

Moral to the story is BE THE FIRST ONE TO CALL THE COPS and you will get them on your side no matter what unravels at the scene. Pitiful.

reply to post by Xarian6


IMO He is a shill for the police. It took me a while but look at how long his posts are, how quickly they are put up and he is either
1) A 200 wpm minute typist (in which case logic dictates that he would not be working as an officer)
2) Working off a script, cutting and pasting from prewritten arguments and editing them slightly to fit the thread.

reply to post by KilrathiLG


But he did not point a gun at the police. He pointed it at his neighbor. An article today states that the Officer that fired, who has been involved in 7 other shootins with six fatalities (all justified) saw something black in the victims had that did not have the baby. It turns out that the investigation revealed that the victim did NOT have a gun on him...but two were found several feet from where he collapsed.

Here is the article from today:

Today's Article

Also, the article notes that the victim was shot as he turned around to go back inside:

Loxas was turning to go back inside when Peters, who was standing 18 feet away from Loxas, shot him in the head with his patrol rifle, police said. Peters and another officer told investigators that they saw a black object in Loxas' hand. But investigators determined that Loxas was not carrying a gun. Read more: www.azcentral.com...

Now, this will probably be cleared because the victim had threatened the neighbors and police were not sure if he had a gun and there was something black in his hand. However, I think there should be a 100% sure verification that there is a gun before lethal force is used. Especially since this guy was turning around and had a baby with him.

reply to post by MisterFister103


Kill a cop or two??? I know you are kidding but to even put that in a sentence is reprehensible to me.
Why not first suggest we proceed to have some kind of dialogue between the Police and the Community?

So many possible solutions are available if and when people decide to work as a group and stick together. Now I see why Anonymous is anonymous. People are afraid of retaliation just for trying to do the right thing and that is a sad and deplorable state of affairs.

Many areas have interactive events that place Police and community in friendly settings so that each get to understand and humanize the other? How about writing City Hall en mass or sending around a petition saying we (citizens) are sick of the careless brutality and shoot to kill orders?

People should help police in ways they can and Police should agree to kill as few innocent people as possible and really make an effort to show the communities they are there for their safety, protection and well being and not to harass, threaten or intimidate for no reason and not to kill you by accident or otherwise.

Fox 10 just reported and is reporting at this second that, this officer has been involved in "7" deadly shootings,

AND!!... that this man was shot and killed WHILE UNARMED! so to all those who still stick to the whole "He was reported to be armed" need to know,

HE WAS SHOT AND KILLED WHILE UNARMED...

this is what im talking about,
you are more likely to be killed now whne you meet a cop more than ever now,,even if you are the one who called them,,
I wonder what the odds work out to regarding how likely you are to die when encountering a cop?