I'm confused about reincarnation

Originally posted by ChiForce

Originally posted by TheGreatest

Originally posted by ButtUglyToad

Originally posted by TheGreatest

I understand what you are saying with regards to the mind over matter cosmos that modern day science has no knowledge of, but I fail to see how the constant reincarnation of souls has a use. Honestly it is something I don't understand, everything needs to have an end. What begins needs to end, but if souls continue to be reincarnated over and over again, where does it lead? What is our future?

That is based on entropy and there is ZERO entropy in the Universe, plus, there's growth in size as well as mass.

What is our Future? Answer: Our Past!

Ever watch re-runs on TV? Guess how God/Source watches re-runs but with alternate endings?

Ribbit

Ps: The Universe is sumwhere in the neighborhood of a Centillion^Centillion^Centillion earth years old in its current form, and from that point, it goes back a googolplex in Time in its original form.

edit on 15-2-2012 by ButtUglyToad because: (no reason given)

If that is the case is not possible that God/Source could change his/her/it's mind and suddenly decide to end reincarnation and just put an end to this existence and move onto something else? or to give us an afterlife without the death and rebirth into another form of existence?

Is not God's will to end reincarnation. Is the will of the enlightened one that can live outside the wheel of karma and the cycle of rebirth. That will and the actions of the enlightened one would no longer cause karma. I think this is only applying to one particular soul, not all of the humanity.

Let's just look at the ideology that we are created in God's image, if this is the case, we are very decisive as human beings and are intelligent enough to change and amend thoughts and plans that we have instantaneously, so why can't God do the same? and if only one particular soul is destined to reach enlightenment why do we all go through the process of reincarnation?

Originally posted by TheGreatest

Originally posted by ButtUglyToad

Originally posted by TheGreatest

I understand what you are saying with regards to the mind over matter cosmos that modern day science has no knowledge of, but I fail to see how the constant reincarnation of souls has a use. Honestly it is something I don't understand, everything needs to have an end. What begins needs to end, but if souls continue to be reincarnated over and over again, where does it lead? What is our future?

That is based on entropy and there is ZERO entropy in the Universe, plus, there's growth in size as well as mass.

What is our Future? Answer: Our Past!

Ever watch re-runs on TV? Guess how God/Source watches re-runs but with alternate endings?

Ribbit

Ps: The Universe is sumwhere in the neighborhood of a Centillion^Centillion^Centillion earth years old in its current form, and from that point, it goes back a googolplex in Time in its original form.

edit on 15-2-2012 by ButtUglyToad because: (no reason given)

If that is the case is not possible that God/Source could change his/her/it's mind and suddenly decide to end reincarnation and just put an end to this existence and move onto something else? or to give us an afterlife without the death and rebirth into another form of existence?

Your #1 mistake is this is kNot existence! This is a vaudeville act and your person is a cast member of the show.

Your #2 mistake is you think God/Source is behind this? She isn't! The kids are, WE the Souls.

Your Soul isn't within, it's without and connected to you via Time.

That's how kNot a single Soul has ever been hurt in the making of these Matrices. WE aren't even here.

Ribbit

reply to post by TheGreatest


I think we need to be clear on few things. "God" I assume you are referring to Christianity. I don't believe Christianity talks much about reincarnation. Not even sure how reincarnation would work from the Christian perspective. In Buddhism, in general, the enlightened one can liberate himself or herself from the wheel of karma in order to escape from the cycle of rebirth. The wheel of karma of oneself in relation to the world. I haven't read anything mentioning that the enlightened can or suppose to help others to be liberated. Or whether or not his or her enlightenment should automatically liberate others from the cycle of rebirths. There is a lot of emphasis on working with your own mind or your own Dharma in reaching enlightenment. It is very individualistic. Unlike the symbol of Christ of who he has to suffer for the sins for all humanity and so that the world can be redeemed one day.

Originally posted by TheGreatest
There is NO evidence at all for reincarnation, fact.

Wiki told me:

Psychiatrist Ian Stevenson, from the University of Virginia, investigated many reports of young children who claimed to remember a past life. He conducted more than 2,500 case studies over a period of 40 years and published twelve books, including Twenty Cases Suggestive of Reincarnation and Where Reincarnation and Biology Intersect.

Which pointed me towards:
Dr. Ian Stevenson's Life Work

Instead of relying on hypnosis to verify that an individual has had a previous life, he instead chose to collect thousands of cases of children who spontaneously (without hypnosis) remember a past life. Dr. Ian Stevenson uses this approach because spontaneous past life memories in a child can be investigated using strict scientific protocols. Hypnosis, while useful in researching into past lives, is less reliable from a purely scientific perspective. (bold mine)

I'm afraid there is more than enough evidence to at least seriously consider reincarnation as a possibility for what could happen before birth and after death.

I'm confused too. I've probably been reincarnated over a hundred times and I still haven't learned enough to graduate. Maybe next time.

Originally posted by TheGreatest

Originally posted by ChiForce

Originally posted by TheGreatest

Originally posted by ButtUglyToad

Originally posted by TheGreatest

I understand what you are saying with regards to the mind over matter cosmos that modern day science has no knowledge of, but I fail to see how the constant reincarnation of souls has a use. Honestly it is something I don't understand, everything needs to have an end. What begins needs to end, but if souls continue to be reincarnated over and over again, where does it lead? What is our future?

That is based on entropy and there is ZERO entropy in the Universe, plus, there's growth in size as well as mass.

What is our Future? Answer: Our Past!

Ever watch re-runs on TV? Guess how God/Source watches re-runs but with alternate endings?

Ribbit

Ps: The Universe is sumwhere in the neighborhood of a Centillion^Centillion^Centillion earth years old in its current form, and from that point, it goes back a googolplex in Time in its original form.

edit on 15-2-2012 by ButtUglyToad because: (no reason given)

If that is the case is not possible that God/Source could change his/her/it's mind and suddenly decide to end reincarnation and just put an end to this existence and move onto something else? or to give us an afterlife without the death and rebirth into another form of existence?

Is not God's will to end reincarnation. Is the will of the enlightened one that can live outside the wheel of karma and the cycle of rebirth. That will and the actions of the enlightened one would no longer cause karma. I think this is only applying to one particular soul, not all of the humanity.

Let's just look at the ideology that we are created in God's image, if this is the case, we are very decisive as human beings and are intelligent enough to change and amend thoughts and plans that we have instantaneously, so why can't God do the same? and if only one particular soul is destined to reach enlightenment why do we all go through the process of reincarnation?

WE (the Souls) are created in God's/Source's image, as finite pieces of God/Source, PURE ENERGY!

We (the Humans) are created in God's/Source's image, but from within, not from without (the outside).

sprott.physics.wisc.edu...

Who dew you think God/Source is?

Why is it you look at you and think it's Life but you look at the Universe and don't see Life?

You are bassackwards!

You are kNot Life but the Universe is! It is the most Perfect Lifeform possible and you, as a human, are living inside God/Source.

Ribbit

Originally posted by rickymouse
I'm confused too. I've probably been reincarnated over a hundred times and I still haven't learned enough to graduate. Maybe next time.

You never gradumacate, because it's Recess 24/7/52.

Ribbit

Originally posted by Dae

Originally posted by TheGreatest
There is NO evidence at all for reincarnation, fact.

Wiki told me:

Psychiatrist Ian Stevenson, from the University of Virginia, investigated many reports of young children who claimed to remember a past life. He conducted more than 2,500 case studies over a period of 40 years and published twelve books, including Twenty Cases Suggestive of Reincarnation and Where Reincarnation and Biology Intersect.

Which pointed me towards:
Dr. Ian Stevenson's Life Work

Instead of relying on hypnosis to verify that an individual has had a previous life, he instead chose to collect thousands of cases of children who spontaneously (without hypnosis) remember a past life. Dr. Ian Stevenson uses this approach because spontaneous past life memories in a child can be investigated using strict scientific protocols. Hypnosis, while useful in researching into past lives, is less reliable from a purely scientific perspective. (bold mine)

I'm afraid there is more than enough evidence to at least seriously consider reincarnation as a possibility for what could happen before birth and after death.

Interesting find, I will do some research and look into his studies when I get a chance but I'm not going to believe those statements on wikipedia until i go to the source and do some research of my own.

And at Chii - So what happens when someone breaks the cycle of kharma no longer need to be reborn? do they cease to exist?

reply to post by TheGreatest


I wish I know... Your mind and body would be liberated. Not sure what it meant. Here is an excerpt from Haung Po: Transmission of the Mind.

"Were you now to practise keeping your minds motionless at all times, whether walking, standing, sitting or lying; concentrating entirely upon the goal of no thought-creation, no duality, no reliance on others and no attachments; just allowing all things to take their course the whole day long, as though you were too ill to bother; unknown to the world; innocent of any urge to be known or unknown to others; with your minds like blocks of stone that mend no holes—then all the Dharmas1 would penetrate your understanding through and through. In a little while you would find yourselves firmly unattached. Thus, for the first time in your lives, you would discover your reactions to phenomena decreasing and, ultimately, you would pass beyond the Triple World; and people would say that a Buddha had appeared in the world. Pure and passionless knowledge2 implies putting an end to the ceaseless flow of thoughts and images, for in that way you stop creating the karma that leads to rebirth—whether as gods or men or as sufferers in hell. Once every sort of mental process has ceased, not a particle of karma is formed. Then, even in this life, your minds and bodies become those of a being completely liberated. Supposing that this does not result in freeing you immediately from further rebirths, at the very least you will be assured of rebirth in accordance with your own wishes. The sūtra declares: ‘Bodhisattvas are re-embodied into whatsoever forms they desire.’ But were they suddenly to lose the power of keeping their minds free from conceptual thought, attachment to form would drag them back into the phenomenal world, and each of those forms would create for them a demon’s karma!

(2007-12-01). The Zen Teaching of Huang-Po: On the Transmission of Mind (pp. 90-91). Perseus Books Group. Kindle Edition. --------------------------

Some new souls came from other planets that died.
Also, most people do have memories of past lives.

Forget about the whole idea and concept of reincarnation. The minute it becomes a philosophy or concept that you can hypothesis and speculate about, is the minute it is not in accordance with reality. See what is, that is all the Buddha or any other sage will ask you to do. When this happens, all will be understood.

Originally posted by TheBlueShiroux
Some new souls came from other planets that died.
Also, most people do have memories of past lives.

New Souls (twins) come from the birth of individual galaxies, kNot the death of sumthing.

Most peeps don't remember Soulstate but that's the way it's suppose to be. If you all could remember everything, then you'd know what this is all about and you'd screw it all up by getting it right, instead of getting it all wrong which, eYe might add, you are dew'n an A-1 job at dew'n it all wrong.

Keep it up!

Ribbit

Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
Forget about the whole idea and concept of reincarnation. The minute it becomes a philosophy or concept that you can hypothesis and speculate about, is the minute it is not in accordance with reality. See what is, that is all the Buddha or any other sage will ask you to do. When this happens, all will be understood.

So what do Zen sages or Buddhist sages actually teach with regards to reincarnation? Do they give any incline to the purpose of it all?

Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
Forget about the whole idea and concept of reincarnation. The minute it becomes a philosophy or concept that you can hypothesis and speculate about, is the minute it is not in accordance with reality. See what is, that is all the Buddha or any other sage will ask you to do. When this happens, all will be understood.

This is kind of the route I am taking with it. I know it is real, I have experienced it, so anything other than that is speculation. Accept for what I pulled out of the memory, which was that people I knew back then, also appeared in this lifetime, which points me into the direction of soul groups.

but other than that, it just is what it is.

Originally posted by TheGreatest

Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
Forget about the whole idea and concept of reincarnation. The minute it becomes a philosophy or concept that you can hypothesis and speculate about, is the minute it is not in accordance with reality. See what is, that is all the Buddha or any other sage will ask you to do. When this happens, all will be understood.

So what do Zen sages or Buddhist sages actually teach with regards to reincarnation? Do they give any incline to the purpose of it all?

They will tell you to meditate and still the mind, and by doing this you will come to clearly understand the process of reality; the way it works. Any good teacher will not go very far into it, because as I said before, that would simply confuse the seeker by turning it into a philosophy or idea when it is a truth to be seen directly. I was recently in Sri Lanka meditating in a cave hermitage and I asked the head monk this very question. What is reincarnation? He replied as I replied to you, go back and meditate more. I'm sure a zen monk would say the same.

Originally posted by Darkblade71

Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
Forget about the whole idea and concept of reincarnation. The minute it becomes a philosophy or concept that you can hypothesis and speculate about, is the minute it is not in accordance with reality. See what is, that is all the Buddha or any other sage will ask you to do. When this happens, all will be understood.

This is kind of the route I am taking with it. I know it is real, I have experienced it, so anything other than that is speculation. Accept for what I pulled out of the memory, which was that people I knew back then, also appeared in this lifetime, which points me into the direction of soul groups.

but other than that, it just is what it is.

This reminds me of a story I read by Adyashanti, where he said he fell into a trance and saw hundreds of his previous lives floating through space like bubbles of consciousness that he could peek in on. I, myself, have never had any such experience so I cannot say if it is real or an illusion, but I do know that reincarnation is very real and verifiable for anyone willing to sit and watch the mind.

Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy

Originally posted by TheGreatest

Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
Forget about the whole idea and concept of reincarnation. The minute it becomes a philosophy or concept that you can hypothesis and speculate about, is the minute it is not in accordance with reality. See what is, that is all the Buddha or any other sage will ask you to do. When this happens, all will be understood.

So what do Zen sages or Buddhist sages actually teach with regards to reincarnation? Do they give any incline to the purpose of it all?

They will tell you to meditate and still the mind, and by doing this you will come to clearly understand the process of reality; the way it works. Any good teacher will not go very far into it, because as I said before, that would simply confuse the seeker by turning it into a philosophy or idea when it is a truth to be seen directly. I was recently in Sri Lanka meditating in a cave hermitage and I asked the head monk this very question. What is reincarnation? He replied as I replied to you, go back and meditate more. I'm sure a zen monk would say the same.

I believe a Zen master would say the same. It is really not important to know or understand reincarnation if the individuals are still trapped in their present day karmas. One must free oneself from the present day attachments first...to take the first step. Everything else should be apparent to the individuals afterward.

Originally posted by ChiForce

I believe a Zen master would say the same. It is really not important to know or understand reincarnation if the individuals are still trapped in their present day karmas. One must free oneself from the present day attachments first...to take the first step. Everything else should be apparent to the individuals afterward.

"A true Master nows there are no Masters." - Old Toad Proverb

Ribbit

reply to post by ButtUglyToad

"A true Master nows there are no Masters." - Old Toad Proverb

in moments of confusion : drink more beer - old toad proverb (?)

Originally posted by bestintentions
reply to post by ButtUglyToad

 

"A true Master nows there are no Masters." - Old Toad Proverb

in moments of confusion : drink more beer - old toad proverb (?)

"In moments of confusion, Pee!" - Tadpole Proverb

"2 pee or kNot 2 pee, that is the Quest-eYe-on." - Old Toad Proverb

"2 Question or kNot 2 Question, that IS the Question!" - Old Toad Proverb

Ribbit