Freemasonry and Christianity.

Originally posted by 1nOne
reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

 

Augustus Masonicus: "Firstly, I am not a Christian so any Biblical mandates you quote do not apply."

Not so: that is precisely why they apply.

My point: The luminaries of your craft have been less than on the level with you, my friend.

The luminaries of the Craft have nothing to do with his particular Religious beliefs. They are not tasked with making him a Christian or any other religion, they are only tasked with teaching the traditions of Freemasonry.

My kid's karate teacher makes them learn respect, honor, commitment, honesty, restraint, etc., etc. They learn this as part of the art of karate, but not as a replacement for any particular religious view. Freemasonry is exactly the same thing. We share common views such as charity, truth, brotherly love, morality, etc. None of those things are specific or exclusive of any religion and ar not taught in relation to any particular religion. Demanding Freemasonry align itself with Christianity is the same as demanding my kids karate teacher align himself with Christianity.

There are PLENTY of ways for one to learn how to be moral and upright without one having to become a Christian.

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by OldHag

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by OldHag

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by OldHag

 

There is nothing in Masonry that contradicts my faith in Christ.

Than my question: Do you read the Bible every day?

Do you believe the Bible should be taken 100% litteraly?

DO you believe every story in that book is 100% true?

Both YES!!

even the old testament? The Book where God asked Abraham to kill his son as proof that he trusted God?
The whole thing?

How often will you ask the same question? It is a yes for everything what is written in the Bible!
As soon you go belief in Him, and search through the Scripture, you will get also the answers to that happening and why it happened. If you say before that you don't want it. Okay, so it will be, but than don't ask the question over and over by every Christian you meet.. because I know a jew who did that too and I tried to make him understand the Bible and make it that simple as it was, that even a child of two years could understand, but because of his unbelief, he didn't understand. That is what the Bible say if you are blind and deaf, that's the reason why Moses have to cover his face and make a fortune to sell sunglasses.

Originally posted by 1nOne
Not so: that is precisely why they apply.

I am not quite sure what kind of Christian crack rock you have been smoking but last time I checked there was no Bible-enforcement detachment of the military making sure everyone takes their Bibles literally.

My point: The luminaries of your craft have been less than on the level with you, my friend.

Regarding what?

reply to post by OldHag


Here is why I asked that.

Adam and Eve had no chance at getting into heaven. None whatsoever. So why did they worry about what God told them? Since Jesus wasn't born yet, they couldn't get anywhere through him. Nor could Any of the people that existed and dies before Christ was born. So you are very lucky to have been born when you were. Otherwise, you would be damned to hell just for being born at the wrong time.

And do you really thing that the Loving God who cares for all his children would put a man through killing his child?
What if you thought God was talking to you and he told you to rob a liquor store? Would you do it? If you don't then you don't love God, but if you do, nobody is going to believe that God told you to do it. So you end up in jail.

Are you aware of how many contradictions exist in that one book? Anyone with half a brain would at least see that it is not possible for everything in the Bible to be true.

It's meant to be a guide, not a history book.

Originally posted by network dude
What if you thought God was talking to you and he told you to rob a liquor store? Would you do it?

I do not have to, we have a kegerator.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by OldHag

 

Here is why I asked that.

Adam and Eve had no chance at getting into heaven. None whatsoever. So why did they worry about what God told them? Since Jesus wasn't born yet, they couldn't get anywhere through him. Nor could Any of the people that existed and dies before Christ was born. So you are very lucky to have been born when you were. Otherwise, you would be damned to hell just for being born at the wrong time.

I would that many Christians know what you know, but only that part what is belonging before and after the cross.
If you read Hebrew chapter 11.. what will this say, that all the people before the cross went to the hell? Yes they are.. but you could read in Luke chapter 16 verse 20-31 what part of it. Than you know immedately where of the man is who died also on the cross and where that paradise is where Jesus spoke about.

And do you really thing that the Loving God who cares for all his children would put a man through killing his child?

Yes, because I am not thinking like you causal but parallel.

What if you thought God was talking to you and he told you to rob a liquor store? Would you do it?

To become drunk as Saul?

If you don't then you don't love God, but if you do, nobody is going to believe that God told you to do it.

if there are missing donkey's maybe I would do it

So you end up in jail.

Paul and Silas too, but not for long.

Are you aware of how many contradictions exist in that one book?

For unbelievers: YES! For believers NO!

Anyone with half a brain would at least see that it is not possible for everything in the Bible to be true.

If anyone had just 10% or less and will believe in God, than he would understand.

It's meant to be a guide, not a history book.

The Bible is written for believers NOT for unbelievers!!!

Originally posted by OldHag
The Bible is written for believers NOT for unbelievers!!!

There are some who would disagree with that.

I am fine with my faith, and I am SURE you are OK with yours.

I will leave you with a joke.

A man dies and goes to heaven. He is met by St. Peter at the gate. St. Peter tells the man he is going to give him the tour. So they start out. they see the pool, the golf course, the dining area, the church, then they come to a closed door. St. Peter tells the man to be very quiet and they tip-toe past the door. Then St. Peter goes on about the game room and the garden. The man cannot hold his curiosity anymore. He asks St. Peter why that door was locked. St. Peter replies, " That's where the southern Baptists are at. They think they are the only ones here, and God didn't have the heart to tell them they were not."

God lives in your heart, not your Bible. God Bless.

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by OldHag
The Bible is written for believers NOT for unbelievers!!!

There are some who would disagree with that.

That is their decission.

I am fine with my faith, and I am SURE you are OK with yours.

Okidokie

I will leave you with a joke.

A man dies and goes to heaven. He is met by St. Peter at the gate. St. Peter tells the man he is going to give him the tour. So they start out. they see the pool, the golf course, the dining area, the church, then they come to a closed door. St. Peter tells the man to be very quiet and they tip-toe past the door. Then St. Peter goes on about the game room and the garden. The man cannot hold his curiosity anymore. He asks St. Peter why that door was locked. St. Peter replies, " That's where the southern Baptists are at. They think they are the only ones here, and God didn't have the heart to tell them they were not."

That's an old one, but still be good!

God lives in your heart, not your Bible.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

God Bless.

u2!!

edit on 24-2-2012 by network dude because: fixed quote

Originally posted by OldHag
Is that an excuse?

Nope.

Originally posted by OldHag
Why don't you pull off some hours to get the time for yourself, for reading the Bible as you would like?

If only I had that luxury.

Originally posted by OldHag
Many of collegaes of mine died because of their many hours of work, do you want to foillow them?

I do take care to keep myself in good health.

reply to post by 1nOne

So you'd elevate Satan to god-hood now? Is he not originally a creation of the Almighty God?

reply to post by 1nOne

That is bold to say that our own Brothers would lie to us.

I am a Freemason and I am a follower of Jesus, I have not ever once had any reason to choose between one and the other. I also have spent a quarter of a century now studying both....I will share with you my honest and sincere belief. I will not argue with someone who has made up their mind though. If you beleive Freemasonry is a tool of Satan, go ahead, it matters not the least to me. Likely I think what you call "Christianity" is a heretical abomination of pagan Roman ideals that doens't have the slightest simblance of the teachings of Yeshua the messiah.........for those with an open mind this is what I have found.

The message of Jesus was warped almost immediately after his execution. Even in the new testament we see the division between early followers of Jesus in the arguments between James and Paul. Even there thoughwe have no real idea exactly what the real Paul and James actually had to say, rather we have a book compiled over hundreds of years, during many power struggles among differing theologies, who have often claimed authorship that modern textual criticism and research has been shown to be uncatagorically to be false. The bible thumper who worships man's corrupt works, and has turned theological writings of men to be of greater importance then God is NOT the message of Jesus. Rather they have become the very modern Pharisee with whom he took so much issue for adding to God's law with the corrupt laws of man, they do NOT follow the message of Jesus, the early church or any of the original apostles. they follow death and not life.

Freemasonry is based on that very original understanding of Jesus's message, and in fact the original Torah's message where the number one rule is not dogma, doctrine or hate. Rather it is as simple as "Love your God with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself". It is not for perversions for which God strikes down cities in the old testiment as the post Victorian theology would interprit, but rather more centrally, the lack of charity, the hardness of heart, and the cruelness for which men would treat their neighbor that invoked God's wrath. Even in the New Testament time and time again, Jesus tells someone to do something, and they do the opposite even among his folowers while alive. Yet some would have you beleive after his death they too became deities to be worshiped and were free from error or vice.

Every protestant church that came after the reformation owes their existance to Freemasonry, without which they would never have come to exist. Every scientific break through, that has come since the forming of the Royal Society and the Invisible College before it would likely not yet have been made until a much later date or not all if not for Freemasonry. These are not official positions of Freemasonry, but in my 25 years of study ,of which only a portion was from within masonry, has convinced me beyond any shadow of a doubt to my mind. Modern representational government too is but one more product of the battles fought by Freemasonry and won against the tyranny that oppressed Europe for so long. Not only have i found Freemasonry to not oppose Christianity, I have found no truer defender of Jesus's central message to love God with all your heart, and to love thy neighbor meaning ALL neighbors with all your heart. The Love of God, and charity to your fellow man, are the core of Freemasonry. The fight for truth, and to fight the tyranny of liars and the corrupt false prophets has been Freemasonry's history from it's beginning. beleive me or not, I can tell you where to start reading, but I can not make you read, or learn, but all of these statements I have found to be true.

Telling people the truth more often the not sadly does not convince them of it, people time and time again will hold onto a lie they hold dear even more strongly when confronted with a truth that shakes their world view, or calls their own unrightious behavior into question, so Freemasonry has no reason to simply tell all it has to say and everything i have said here is but a small portion of what I have come to see. Before Freemasonry I was a card carrying Christian, after Freemasonry I became a follower of Jesus in my every step and breath. Likewise I have known a Jewish friend to say the same as to what it did for him in his faith.

Even the devils BELIEVE in God.....belief does not make a man rightious.... how you live, and the virtue you live by are what make you rightious before God..... by making men truer, kinder, and charitable masonry helps men of all theological understandings better men.....it is not a religion, it is day to day in practice philosophy, but it's lessons for living are ALL found in the Bible. Any "Christian" who continues to slander Freemasonry is not only speaking falsly about masonry, he is slapping the face of those who protected the very faith they would defend, when tyrants would have put their denomiations to the torch.

Can you totally agree with this Biblestudy

And isn't it this not also the Freemasonry: