Marine fatally shot in his car by police in front of his two young daughters

Updated information released -

Deputy union releases version of Marine killing

"The deputy began to follow Loggins on foot when he heard children's screams coming from the car," according to the union's statement. "Loggins, now in a darkened part of the adjacent field, could be heard yelling irrational statements. The deputy radioed for immediate assistance, informing dispatchers of a hit-and-run accident and endangerment situation."

In the statement, the deputy's union disclosed information that had not been previously disclosed by the sheriff's department, or that the department declined to provide, citing an ongoing investigation.

For example, according to the union's statement, additional deputies arrived at the high school before Loggins returned to the SUV. Some of the deputies spoke with Loggins' children – ages 14 and 9 – while he was in the field and "comforted the children in the back seat."

Sheriff's officials said Loggins returned to the vehicle and "did not stop, ignoring the deputies who had their weapons drawn and got into the driver's side of the car despite multiple warnings."

According to the union's statement, Loggins put the car in gear, and the deputy fired through the driver's side window as the car moved forward.

UPDATED: Deputies' Union Defends Fatal Shooting of Marine

The deputy of 15 years with the OCSO is also a Marine.

Statement by one of the children -

Sgt. Manny Loggins' daughters told the deputy their father had been acting oddly, according to a statement by the Association of Orange County Deputy Sheriffs. The union asserts its member prevented harm to Loggins' children and other motorists.

Even his own daughters, sitting in the back seat, told deputies their father had been behaving strangely that morning, Dominguez said.

Narrative released by Police Union of the incident -

On February, 7, 2012, at around 4:30 in the morning, Manuel Loggins Jr., 31, driving with his two daughters, 9 and 14, unseatbelted in the back seat of his GMC Yukon, plowed through a locked gate at San Clemente High School.

The force of the crash left sections of the gate embedded in the bottom of the Yukon and drew the attention of an on-duty sheriff’s deputy who was in an adjacent parking lot writing reports.

After coming to a stop, Loggins got out of the Yukon, ignored repeated orders from the uniformed deputy sheriff, and walked off into the dark, abandoning his two daughters left behind in the Yukon. The deputy began to follow Loggins on foot when he heard children’s screams coming from the car. The deputy then returned to the Yukon, and found Loggins’ two girls.

Loggins, now in a darkened part of the adjacent field, could be heard yelling irrational statements. The deputy radioed for immediate assistance, informing dispatchers of a hit-and-run accident and child endangerment situation.

Additional sheriff’s personnel arrived and comforted the children in the back seat. Loggins’ children told deputies their father had been acting oddly. A few minutes later, Loggins unexpectedly and quickly returned to his Yukon. Deputies repeatedly ordered him to stop. Loggins did not stop, ignoring the deputies who now had their weapons drawn, and got into the driver’s side of the car, despite multiple warnings.

Deputies warned Loggins not to start the car. Loggins ignored these and repeated other warnings, started the Yukon and placed it in gear. It was then clear that Loggins was going to drive off and further endanger the children. As the Yukon began to move forward, he was shot by the deputy next to the driver’s window. The car was stopped, the children were removed and medical aid was rendered to Loggins, who did not survive.

The info was released to clarify some of the information due to the number of errors that local media had been reporting.

Mr. Loggins family was contacted in Jolliet IL who declined to comment at the time.

reply to post by Xcathdra

I said nothing of the sort...mentally deficient. You're living in lalaland, however, if you believe our military is returning unscathed and fully able to cope in society. This might be of particular challenge in some jobs, particularly law enforcement, where the situations they have to deal with are similar but not the same, so that they can respond properly. It's a huge mindshift they have to make to re-acclimate.

Now, if you don't see the same trend I've been noticing for years now, fair and fine. But I'm sure someone is going to be researching this soon, if they're not already. Also, perhaps what applied in my statement about law enforcement would apply to anyone returning from war zones in general, but again, even more so in a job with the types of responsibilities and challenges law enforcement personnel face.

LMAO, safety for the children???? I doubt that police officer is feeding any homeless kids out there or sharing his pay cheque with the less fortunate. Law enforcement employess can go ingest male reproductive liquid for all I care. Don't give me that, you won't be saying that when someone robs you, jumps you, or does even worse. I walk around strapped.

Whatever the situation was, a bullet to the pack wasn't absolutely necessary, What's the point of those supposed non-lethal weapons that are created?

So you didn't say this -

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

At the point where it's their job too to make informed decisions and protect and detonate volatile situations, I suppose X. I'm seeing a growing trend of former military and Xe coming back from many multiple tours of Iraq and Afghanistan joining or returning to law enforcement with, shall we say, altered points of view. I do think that there are probably some forces already looking at this, and if they're not maybe they better. .

Altered points of view? clarify then if you dont mean mentally deficient.

The deputy was in the Marines, and the guy shot was in the Marines. How can people argue the Marine title being a good thing for Mr. Loggins and the Marine title being a bad thing for those who are in law enforcement?


Updated information on incident

Originally posted by PatriotAct
LMAO, safety for the children???? I doubt that police officer is feeding any homeless kids out there or sharing his pay cheque with the less fortunate. Law enforcement employess can go ingest male reproductive liquid for all I care. Don't give me that, you won't be saying that when someone robs you, jumps you, or does even worse. I walk around strapped.

So its ok for you to walk around strapped to protect your safety, but its not ok to protect children, 9 and 14, who arent strapped? Kids who stated their dad was acting oddly?

As far as the liquid suggestion goes I would imagine we will just take your expertise and word on that subject. Thanks for the suggestion though..


Updated information on incident

reply to post by Xcathdra

Altered points of view does not equate to mentally deficient by any stretch of the imagination. No. Altered points of view come from having to live a military life in battle zones with the enemy all around. If they should still have that point of view in their job in law enforcement, or perhaps even flash back to it in certain situations, I see a problem here. Don't you?

I'm not arguing the "Marine" thing. But who knows, maybe something in each of them triggered. Doubt it, but you never know.

reply to post by ~Lucidity


Only in the fact its a one way argument... Its suggesting military people who go into law enforcement are somehow more dangerous that those who served who are not in law enforcement.

Any reason its not out of the realm of possibility to hold people accountable instead of blaming others in this regard? Mr. Loggins was in the Marine corp longer than the deputy was and should have known what the consequences to his actions would be? Even more so since he never served in a combat zone, so the PTSD / Battle Zone argument wouldn't apply to Mr. Loggins (I dont completely buy it for military personnel in law enforcement either as I feel its nothing but an excuse used by people to blame law enforcement for the poor choices others have made).

Thats what i'm getting from your post, so if thats not what you are stating please correct me.


Updated information on incident

reply to post by Xcathdra


CATH i am usually with you
and the jack boots, but answer me this
why did they NOT use a taser??

I mean why would YOU in this very situation
as a officer not grab the taser in stead?

Either way the whole situation seems
very sad...

Obviously the girls dad went off the head, (it does happen)
I am not saying the cops murdered him, but don't all you guys
got a taser? he clearly should of tased him

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by Kryties

 

you guys get the idea... As I said, the suggestions people are making in this realm is based off of a lack of knowledge on the laws that govern the use of deadly force. The key part of that in the legal realm is we do not shoot to kill, we do not shoot to wound - we shoot to stop the threat.

Wow... what a way to twist words. Shoot to stop the treat in the way you describe it is "shoot to kill". Don't take us for fools.

Regarding the use of taser gun as you said there is need for other officers around. In fact the story tells the backup was already there no? Didn't they talk to the kids while he was chasing the suspect?

So, IMO it was another trigger-happy-cop-on-the-run.

Peace out.

reply to post by Xcathdra


If you find my earlier comments on this thread you can see I asked the same questions as to why they wasted time and did not prevent him from returning to the vehicle when they had ample time. The only thing I see out of the articles are that the officer and fellow colleagues practiced poor judgement and did not execute skills they should already know so why are they on the force? This whole situation was easily preventable with the right actions. The officers were in the wrong and it is obviously clear. They had multiple options to subdue a suspect, reaching for their handgun should not be the first choice. I support police when the situation calls for it, but with more incidents like this one I am finding that harder to do.

Originally posted by popsmayhem
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

CATH i am usually with you
and the jack boots, but answer me this
why did they NOT use a taser??

I mean why would YOU in this very situation
as a officer not grab the taser in stead?

A Taser is not used in a deadly force encounter. The info released stated the man made comments to the deputy, at which point the deputy decided he was not going to allow the guy to leave. Until we know what was said and have all the facts, thats the best answer I can give you.

Like guns, a Taser can fail. If either of the probes doesn't make a good enough connection (they can arc up to 2 1/2 inches through thick clothing), then the effect we all have seen, the person locking up, does not occur. In that case the deputy would need to close the gap and make personal contact with the tip of the taser to complete the circuit with the barb that made good contact.

If either one of the wires is broken, the taser effect does not occur. The guy could have then driven off, possibly injuring / killing the deputy had he closed the gap, while placing his 2 kids in even more danger, and if he gets off school grounds everyone else as it would have resulted in a police pursuit.

reply to post by popsmayhem


Not everybody has tasers. None of the Florida Highway Patrol guys that I know carry tasers, and none of the County Deputies that I know carry tasers. Some departments do, some don't, and in the departments that do, some cops do and some don't.

One deputy I know carried his for 1 year, but then they wanted him to re-qualify with it, which meant getting re-shocked, and he said no way, and turned it back in. He said he'd rather be shot than tasered!

I mentioned earlier that two acquaintances of mine were killed early in 2011 while trying to use their taser.

Tasers are a mistake in my opinion, the sooner the go away completely, the better.

reply to post by Brandon88


Your observations are your observations, however they dont take into account the policies of the department or the laws in effect in California. secondly, we still dont have all of the information.

here is some more -

Deputy union releases version of Marine killing

According to the sheriff's department, a deputy fired into Loggins' SUV after the 31-year-old man disobeyed the deputy's orders in the parking lot of San Clemente High School. Officials said Loggins crashed through a gate in the high school and walked away from the car for about five minutes toward the school's athletic field early that morning.

"The deputy began to follow Loggins on foot when he heard children's screams coming from the car," according to the union's statement. "Loggins, now in a darkened part of the adjacent field, could be heard yelling irrational statements. The deputy radioed for immediate assistance, informing dispatchers of a hit-and-run accident and endangerment situation."

In the statement, the deputy's union disclosed information that had not been previously disclosed by the sheriff's department, or that the department declined to provide, citing an ongoing investigation.

For example, according to the union's statement, additional deputies arrived at the high school before Loggins returned to the SUV. Some of the deputies spoke with Loggins' children – ages 14 and 9 – while he was in the field and "comforted the children in the back seat."

Sheriff's officials said Loggins returned to the vehicle and "did not stop, ignoring the deputies who had their weapons drawn and got into the driver's side of the car despite multiple warnings."

According to the union's statement, Loggins put the car in gear, and the deputy fired through the driver's side window as the car moved forward.

Asked why the deputies did not use other means of force – such as physical force or a stun gun – Dominguez said he could not comment on that.

"Since I wasn't there and I'm not in the deputy's shoes, it wouldn't be appropriate for me to make comments on that," Dominguez said.

click link for remainder of article.



Updated information on incident

Originally posted by Fiberx
This what happens when government declares war on it's citizens. Veterens are listed on the "who's a terrorist" list along with Americans that support the nations Constitutional laws. The pigs are told to fear these people and told to assert the regeims dominance through intimidation and violence and so they do.

The stream of misbehavior is building day by day now, protected by illegal laws passed by treasoners in our government.

Oh come on, I do think the shooting was senseless
but how the hell did the cop *know this guy was a marine*
the cop had no perception to fear his service because
there is no way the officer even knew.

Originally posted by PatriotAct
LMAO, safety for the children???? I doubt that police officer is feeding any homeless kids out there or sharing his pay cheque with the less fortunate. Law enforcement employess can go ingest male reproductive liquid for all I care. Don't give me that, you won't be saying that when someone robs you, jumps you, or does even worse. I walk around strapped.

Whatever the situation was, a bullet to the pack wasn't absolutely necessary, What's the point of those supposed non-lethal weapons that are created?

edit on 14-2-2012 by PatriotAct because: Clarification.

The non-lethal weapons are for using on kids and grandmas.

Peace out.

reply to post by bigwig22

Asked why the deputies did not use other means of force – such as physical force or a stun gun – Dominguez said he could not comment on that.

"Since I wasn't there and I'm not in the deputy's shoes, it wouldn't be appropriate for me to make comments on that," Dominguez said.

Updated information on incident

Prison Officers
Fire Fighters
Nurses
Teachers
Social Workers

All deal with similar situations without resorting to shooting people dead.

These trigger happy Policemen are incompetant imo.

reply to post by bigwig22


Yes we shoot to stop the threat. We shoot center mass, we dont "wound".

If stopping the threat means the suspect is shot and survives, we stopped the threat.
If stopping the threat means the suspect is shot and dies, we stopped the threat.

As far as your other comments go we dont have all of the information. I posted some more that gives a better idea of what was going on.


Updated information on incident

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by popsmayhem

 

Not everybody has tasers. None of the Florida Highway Patrol guys that I know carry tasers, and none of the County Deputies that I know carry tasers. Some departments do, some don't, and in the departments that do, some cops do and some don't.

One deputy I know carried his for 1 year, but then they wanted him to re-qualify with it, which meant getting re-shocked, and he said no way, and turned it back in. He said he'd rather be shot than tasered!

I mentioned earlier that two acquaintances of mine were killed early in 2011 while trying to use their taser.

Tasers are a mistake in my opinion, the sooner the go away completely, the better.

I understand what your saying.

I was in jail with a guy who was a meth dealer
the cops tased him while they COULD of shot him
yes his back and sides were bruised and yes
he showed his battle scars but he even told me
he was glad they did not shoot him. There was three
officers in the situation he said two had guns on him
and the third had the taser....

Yes he was going to prison but HE IS HAPPY to
be alive...

Now of course this is coming from a meth dealer
so i took what he said with grains
but I DID SEE the taser marks/bruises and he seemed
pretty truthful..

Their job is to save lives not take them.