WoW, my long Journey and it's relation to Freemasonry.

Questioning freemasonry has brought me in directions I would have never thought myself would have gone (Mods, please do not move this thread because my target audience is masons). I can tell you flatout right now... I have gone from studying the Bible, Qur'an and the Torah to throwing them out and starting from scratch. And since I have started from scratch, what I can conclude is that there is a Most Supreme Being and that I know absolutely nothing about this Most Supreme Being. I have now, taken the path of recognizing Socratic Wisdom's place in society. I no longer believe the Bible to be the "Word of God" because I feel that it is an ignorant claim. Firstly, I have looked within myself and have decided through ethical studies that the statement the Bible is the "Word of God" is a fallacy. For instance, a christian will say, "The Bible is the Word of God and it is proven through the life of Jesus." Well, when we step back we will find out that it is really not true. The only information that we have about Jesus came to us from the bible. Therefore, Christians attempt to prove the that the Bible is the "Word of God" through the bible itself. They take their premise, re-word it and give their conclusion. That to me, seems like the epitomy of Ignorace. It is similar to a scientist taking a hypothesis and basing his theory on a hypothesis he thought up without even doing an experiment! Once I stopped believing that the Bible is the "Word of God", I stopped attacking freemasonry. This is a very interesting experience. Now, I hope none of you freemasons who believe that the Bible is the "Word of God" take any offense, nor any of you christians. There is something to the way I am thinking right now but I cannot put it into words correctly. I am getting a sense that what I am getting at is the key to peace and the end of mental slavery. I can sort of understand Nietzsche better now. If it is true that christians during the life of Jesus did not consider Jesus God and they did not call him christ, then I believe that "Christ" is the Roman interpretation of the message of Jesus. When Nietzsche talked about how he wanted the coming of the Anti-Christ I was infuriated back when I had faith in the bible and christian doctrines. But now, when I see the word Anti-Christ I think of someone who is apposed to the world view that the Romans created for all of is. I do not see the person as Anti-Jesus. Personally, I believe Freemasonry is halfway to where it needs to be. Now, I am not a freemason, but I think they would get more accomplished if they did not give credance to any "sacred text". I believe that the only way we can deny ignorance and find out about God is if we start by wiping the Torah, Qur'an and Bible from the face of the earth. Just because the Bible says there is a Satan or hell does not mean it exists. Therefore If I have no proof of Satan, how can a group of people, namely Freemasons be Satanic? The only way you can make this claim is if you use circular reasoning. To say that freemasonry is satanic would be a fallacy, until there is proof of Satan's existence outside of the Bible or any book. What a beautiful site freemasonry would become if it separated religious essentials such as faith and books from any inch of freemasonry practices. Maybe the secrets of Freemasonry is that knowledge comes from within and not handed to you on a silver platter like the Torah or Bible. As far as I am concerned, everytime man wrote a book explaining God or how to worship a god, there may have been small shards of historical evidence, but that does not confirm the overall picture. On my "Hero's Journey" I have been led down into the belly of the whale. I have come out stronger and more knowledgeable, but I am not finished yet. During my journey I fould this website:

www.askwhy.co.uk...

I think it is an interesting rebuke on the origins of the torah, bible and qur'an. At any rate, I believe that the doctrines of Jewish, Christian and Muslim beliefs were created as a control over the population. I was told that J.R.R. Tolkien was a mason. If this is true, it would be wonderful if he actually knew what type of knowledge he was revealing to people. You don't need the Bible to understand yourself, Just take stories like Lord of the Rings and Star Wars and disect them. Those movies are perfect exaples of the journey people go through when trying to find out about themselves and God.

So now, I will start a project in which I will collect information on the fallacies of what men believe when it comes to God. My goal is to make a Michael Moore-esque type of documentary, (This does not mean I am going to base my claims and statements as he did, but I will make examples stick out and be in plain view to push my viewpoint).

My second project is to found a society of people who believe in the Most Supreme Being, work together to form a Utopia of sorts and awaken those of us still in the dark ages taking what men think as the "Word of God."

I can't wait to read Morals and Dogma at last.

Thank you all for being patient with me on my journey.

sorry for the typos. Time for bed!

It is great that you are on a journey to find yourself and your belief. I wish you the best of luck in it.

One thing about masonry. We believe in a supreme being. That is about the limit of it. It does not matter if that supreme being is the Christian one, Jewish one, Muslim one etc etc until you get to your own personal one. That is correct, I can have my personal supreme being that I believe in. ("I" is for demo puposes... religion is personal to me and I do not share that with anyone) I am still a mason as I believe in a supreme being. Now, there are extra memberships that you can join if you are a Christian though. But, to be a mason, you only have to believe in a supreme being. Now, it is up to each one of us to decide and seek out our supreme being. Anything that you read written by a mason is off of his personal ideas alone. Not on the whole group. That is why we are not allowed to talk about Religion or Politics or anything else that may disturb the peace. Religion is personal for everyone. It is respected as private for each one. Religion and Politics are two of the main things that people hold true to their hearts and two of the things that will surely cause fighting. The only thing that binds masons together in a religious sense is ... the belief in a supreme being. That is all, be it a known religion or one solely in your heart. Please remember this in your studies.

[edit on 17-9-2004 by JCMinJapan]

JRR tolken a mason? would that give any credence to my theory that LOTR has a ton of symbology in it?

3 rings given to the elves....

just a question, do masons believe in ufos and/or aliens, or can they?

I found ask why.com about a year ago and was amazed at some of thier claims. I have been a Christian for about 19 yrs the things that have aggrevated me about it the most are things like not being able to laugh at a dirty joke. It puts a lot of stress on you to try to live it among a bunch of redkneck construction workers. I remember someone trying to show me a girly magazine when I was a young christian and I turned my head. It woud have been easier to have just gaulked a minute and go about my business. As it was it made my day extremely stressful, people almost hate you when you do something like that. I think religions are something that have developed and snowballed over thousands of years into what they are today and are basically all good.

The largest complaint I have with christianity currently is sunday night service. I see absolutely no reason after spending 3.5 hours there on sunday morning to go back and do it again sunday night. And christians man, if your not there every time the door opens you are labled as a "sunday morning christian". And everybody knows that the sunday morning christian is going to bust hell wide open. As busy as everybody's lives are these days there should only be one service on sunday morning and the mid week service should be music and choir practice. That way all the church staff wouldn't need to have an attitude with everyone who can't make it there every time the door opens.

Atleast the Masons are smart enough to keep their weekends freed up and have service only twice a month.

I want to congratulate you, walking the path of truth is a very hard thing to do especially in 2004, with all of the mis-information that travels through the wires of the internet it takes patience and vertue to find the truth, and I believe you are finding some. Just remember that the truth lies within, in the words of Gann "There is nothing new under the sun." (Gann was talking about the stock market, but I believe that this goes for the rest of the world as well.) If you look within yourself you will find the truth, reading lots of books is a great start but there is nothing that you can learn that you don't already know, you simply have to remember. It is like reading a book and knowing that you already knew that which you are reading, you are simply remembering the truth.
I know that you don't think you understand anything about G-d but again look within yourself, G-d is present G-d is everywhere and in everything, including yourself, so if you see G-d from within then you will see G-d in everything.
The philosophy that I have remembered through out my religious journey has lead me to Freemasonry, I know that there is truth within Freemasonry so this is why I have decided to join, so that I can remember more and find the truth that was lost thousands or millions of years ago. (I know that most Masons don't find this truth do to their own personal beliefs, but I have talked to quite a few that do know truth, you can tell by the energy and light that emanates from within, hence my search for the right lodge that only took a couple of years, I wanted to be surrounded by people that were also in search for truth and not just in Masonry for the "old boys club".)

Anyway good luck on your journey and I wish you the best of luck in your search/journey for truth and light.

BTW This is all my own opinion/truth, it is not meant to offend, as none of what I write may be truth for anyone else. Good luck to each and every one of you on your quests for truth.

Originally posted by NuTroll
JRR tolken a mason? would that give any credence to my theory that LOTR has a ton of symbology in it?

3 rings given to the elves....

just a question, do masons believe in ufos and/or aliens, or can they?

Well, Masonry does not tell us what to believe in... we beleive, each of us individually,what we wish. Some probably believe in little green men and flying saucers, some in Jesus, some in both, some in neither. Masons are as varied in the lodge as non masons are outside the lodge, with the exception that we don't have bad men as masons, nor atheists, nor women. Outside that, its pretty much the gamut of society.


[edit on 9/17/04 by theron dunn]

As some have stated here, Freemasonry does not rely on the Bible. Rather it is an aid to learning.
And that is how I personally view the Holy Scriptures of all faiths.

I disagree with throwing out Bibles and Korans merely because they contain some errors. There is much knowledge that can be gleaned from these sources of literature. It's all about interpretation.
Take for example the NT. The book itself might contain some contradictions, but it's story is one of spiritual inspiration if interpreted in the proper way. The same pretty much goes for the OT and the Koran if you can see and circumnavigate the references to tribalism for what they are.

Not only that, but these books contain some of the most ancient historical literature. They give an understanding about how and why the world today has worked out the way that it has.

The Holy Scriptures contain knowledge. It may not be perfect knowledge and it may have been corrupted in some parts by the hand of man over the millenia. But they still contain much that can be used by someone who is searching for his/her god.

DP

I always hear a sharp intake of breath, when I get the feeling that someone is looking to Freemasonry as a Religious journey. To quote your eagerly awaited author, Albert Pike:

Morals and Dogma page 14
Masonry does not pretend to be a religion; but it is not irreligious or irreverent. It does not assume to take the place of any religion, or claim to make religion unnecessary. To charge it with this is to libel it. It requires its initiates to believe in one God and a Divine Providence, and that the soul survives the dissolution of the body. Thus it teaches those great primary truths on which all religion must repose; and it inculcates those principles of pure morality which have commended themselves to the good and wise of all ages."

I wish you all the luck in the world on your journey of exploration.

However we have had a few young guns of late who , have tried to make something of Freemasonry that it should not be , in my opinion.

It is a wonderful , supportive institution, but it is not a religion. It may well support and sustain you on a journey of truth, but it is not of itself a Faith.

Morals and Dogma page 597
For ever, In all the nations, ascending to the remotest antiquity� we find, seated above all gods� a still higher Deity, silent, undefined, incomprehensible, the Supreme, one God, from Whom all the rest flow or emanate, or by Him are created.

Here we have Albert expressing his view, it is for you , I suggest to have your view. Enjoy your journey , and give Mike a run for the next award.

Detective Perez,

Congrats on beginning your journey. Whether of not you find Freemasonry is for you is neither here nor there. What is good is that you find yourself on this journey. Good luck...keep us posted.

And, doesn't it feel grand to awaken to your new path. Kind of exhilarating, huh?
The reason I say that is that I, too, had an epiphany since coming to ATS. So, I can imagine how good you must be feeling

Way to go, Detective

[edit on 10/3/2004 by esther]

I lost the online link to Morals and Dogma. Can anyone (Theron Dunn/AK) post the link to it?

Originally posted by DetectivePerez
I lost the online link to Morals and Dogma. Can anyone (Theron Dunn/AK) post the link to it?

www.freemasons-freemasonry.com...

Let there be Enlightenment...

Book Marking Favorites Monkeys, not just for porn sites anymore...

Originally posted by DetectivePerez
I lost the online link to Morals and Dogma. Can anyone (Theron Dunn/AK) post the link to it?

www.freemasons-freemasonry.com...

Thank you Theron and Mirthful me!

While you are at it, you might want to get a copy of Bridge to Light which is the current Scottish Rite "handbook" and Clausen's Commentaries on Morals and Dogma

Good luck, and if you have questions, feel free to u2u me or email me, or post them here where better minds might be able to give better answers than I...

First and foremost congrat. on your new found journey in life, as you do more and more research about freemasonry be cautious not to get distracted by some of the fallonious crap on the internet. If you truely wish to be "enlightened" I would suggest you go and speak to someone in person at your local grand lodge. I would also be cautious (if you decide to petition) on which lodge you choose, not all lodges are the same. I would choose the lodge that you feel the most comfortable and I would also choose a "TRADITIONAL LODGE" which there are few in the U.S. but if you can find one in your state this is your BEST option for truely finding your path in life they are composed of high esoteric and high intellect.

If you have further questions, DO NOT be hesitant to ask


-S&C

Well, I am interested in joining Lodge members in a chat room, but most likely not in their lodge. I cannot commit to a lodge since right now I am a college student and I don't have access to transportation since I would not be able to pay for a train or bus. My food is based on a credit card system at the cafeteria.

Any chat rooms you could suggest I join? It doesn't have to be limited to Freemason either. Just a bunch of folks looking to be enlightened, learning what life is about without claiming to know what it is about.

[edit on 19-9-2004 by DetectivePerez]

Originally posted by NuTroll
JRR tolken a mason?

No.

would that give any credence to my theory that LOTR has a ton of symbology in it?

No.

IS there a lot of symbology in LOTR? Yes, in fact there is. But it's Nordic. Tolkien was a scholar and an expert on the Nordic languages and legends. It has nothing to do with the Masons.

Tolkein was also a lifelong Catholic.

Detective Perez: you might want to look at:

www.masonicinfo.com...
www.mason-defender.net...
www.thelodgeroom.com...

just as a start. The first is a real good source for true information about masonry, the second is Ministry of Masons, and is owned by Bill McElligott, who you have seen posting here, and the last is the Lodgeroom, and is owned by Stephen Dafoe, an expert on things Templar and author of a number of books on masonry and the quarterly magazine: A Fourth Part of a Circle, to which I highly recommend you subscribe.