The Politics of ‘Star Trek’: ‘Patterns of Force’

reply to post by beezzer


I would gladly give up my nationalism for a utopian one world future were we all co operate equally in a true unified democracy. Other than being brainwashed by tradition, nationalism doesnt actualy do anything does it?

I cant remember the last time nationalism did anything for me, I cant see it, I certainly cant use it and im generaly confused as to how it really applies to my life on a daily basis other than whipping up support from the masses for some good old gun boat diplomacy over seas when the natives are acting up.

Just like religion it is simply some backward egocentric ideology that does nothing but hold us back and should be forgotten as quickly as possible.

Originally posted by PsykoOps
Also before I go level up my klingon in STonline I have to mention a tidbit trivia. Roddenberrys idea originally was that the starfleet would fall. There was to be a war and one ship was supposed to survive it by accident. It drifts too close to a black hole and ends up in suspended time untill retrieved in the future. Starfleet doesn't excist anymore and technology has gone back alot so it's the most powerfull ship around. This idea then was taken and made into a new universe which became andromeda. Now we have the new ST's which are bullocks. I mean seriously beam onto a ship that has been on warp for 3-4 hours???

The original story line would have been sweet!

Beaming and arp is just math!

Originally posted by Ixtab
reply to post by beezzer

 

I would gladly give up my nationalism for a utopian one world future were we all co operate equally in a true unified democracy. Other than being brainwashed by tradition, nationalism doesnt actualy do anything does it?

I cant remember the last time nationalism did anything for me, I cant see it, I certainly cant use it and im generaly confused as to how it really applies to my life on a daily basis other than whipping up support from the masses for some good old gun boat diplomacy over seas when the natives are acting up.

Just like religion it is simply some backward egocentric ideology that does nothing but hold us back and should be forgotten as quickly as possible.

But what kind of government would be acceptable?

It'd have to be a dictatorship, because people are just too different.

Actually, the episode "Journey to Babel" makes Rodenberry's vision of a one world government clear. This is the episode where the Enterprise is transporting diplomats to a meeting of the United Federation of Planets. It is clear that each planet in the Federation has it's own culture, politics and laws. The Federation is a sort of interplanetary United Nations. That was Rodenberry's vision of the Earth's future. Mr. Chekov continued to love Mother Russia above all else, Scotty insisted on wearing a kilt on formal occasions and Uhura was raised speaking Swahili. Each culture on Earth retained its individuality, but found representation in a unified parliamentary body; in other words, Rodenberry believed that the United Nations would eventually work, and that was an extremely liberal idea at the time.

originally posted by beezzer

The only way I could see it happening would be with a nuclear war to eliminate any government structure, world-wide. And even then, it'd depend on the victors. I'm actually looking for the one episode whre they came across a civilization wth the American flag. Still searching. ETA, The Omega Glory

I don't see any population of people willingly giving up their nationalism except in the case of a benign dictaorship. Then it'll be too late.

Intresting theories, but I disagree. You don't need a nuclear war for people to give up nationalism and they will give up even their freedoms and liberties to non begnign dictators, all it takes a little desperation and suffering. People hate desperation and suffering and in the end will give a leader all the power and control they need, as long as the dictator promises to fix things.

Since, the nazi's were referenced in the beginning of the thread, I will use them as an example. The reason that the nazi's were able to rise in power within the German political system and then eventually gained enough power to subvert and completly take over the political system was due to the full scale economic melt down of the weimar republic and rampant hyperinflation.

The german people were desperate, their economy was crushed, there were no jobs, their currency hyper inflated drastically; a loaf of bread went from costing 1 mark in 1919 to 100,000 million marks by 1923,though war reparations from world war one was responsible for some of it a lot of the hyperinflation also came from the government printing money to bail out fat cat german industrialists, who lost a great deal of money financing the first war.So, seeing the state of the economy and the desperation of the people, it is no surprise that they handed the nazi party all the power they wanted and needed, when the nazi's began to promise restoration of the economy and the nation.

The fact is the only thing that is really needed to usher in either a global benevolent dictatorship or even a malevolent one is a world wide economic collapse and hyperinflation of the various global currencies, but don't worry that can't happen right? Yeah no way all those debt dominoes will fall. lol

reply to post by beezzer


www.abovetopsecret.com...

Yes...THAT was the "mindset" back then.

I happened to by alive then...were YOU???

THINK about it....very carefully...........

Firstly, love Star Trek...love everything about it...S&F!

Second, anyone believing we live in a free democracy think twice...its all a fallacy...

reply to post by DJW001

Actually, the episode "Journey to Babel" makes Rodenberry's vision of a one world government clear.

I CANNOT help Him!!!!

yself....Journey to Babel" is one...ONE of the best of the so-called "Classic" Star Trek episodes......


ONLY a teaser.......there is SO MUCH more to see, in the original episode:



We ALL loved it....(in the day)!!! Think about it.......just THINK about it......

reply to post by prisoneronashipoffools
If any other form of government is better than our current form, with the same freedoms, then show me and I'll be there in an instant!

Originally posted by ProudBird
reply to post by beezzer

 

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Yes...THAT was the "mindset" back then.

I happened to by alive then...were YOU???

THINK about it....very carefully...........

Born in 1963.

Yup.

Originally posted by Cosmic911
Firstly, love Star Trek...love everything about it...S&F!

Second, anyone believing we live in a free democracy think twice...its all a fallacy...

Like I said, give me an alternative that is better and I'll be there yesterday!

reply to post by beezzer


Well an actual democracy would be better I imagine. And im not entirely sure how quick I would be to go down the line of Mob Rule etc, and that people are too individual to work as a cohesive force. Obviously there logistical constraints as to how to organize populations in the tens, hundreds of millions, even thousands from meeting to vote on any given topic, referendums take years and years to even organise,

But the internet, thats the only way to do it, give everyone a portal to each and every law, decision to be made and that would be that, a true democracy, everyone would have a say.

OBVIOUSLY there would need to be a serious overhaul of the legal system, as the sheer amount of laws in place is bordering lunacy, however something skirting along the lines of anarchy would be rather more ideal I think.

reply to post by beezzer


Star Trek geek myself.I saw Star Trek on the title and i entered

It's a very interesting analysis of the episode,which happens to be one of my favourites.

Every episode of Star Trek,had a strong message about politics,society,religion etc.Rodenberry was a very smart man and he knew how to pass the messages without disturbing the "masters".Every character and every alien species had a significance in the universe and represented different aspects of the 60's society(even today's society,things haven't change that much).


There is an amazing book called "Star Trek:visions of law and justice" by Robert Chairs and Bradley Chilton(both professors of criminal justice),that is analyzing the laws and justice system of the federation.If you haven't read it, i highly recommend it.

reply to post by beezzer


Think we can alter the space-time continuum and find a better universe to live in?

Maybe one shouldn't read too much into this, but on the original series, the Enterprise and other "good guy" ships always entered from the left. "Bad guy" ships usually entered from the right. (Romulans had the disturbing habit of slithering in from above or appearing out of nowhere, dead ahead. They were morally ambiguous, I guess.) On the other hand, we all know what happened to folks who wore a red shirt....

reply to post by DJW001

Maybe one shouldn't read too much into this, but on the original series, the Enterprise and other "good guy" ships always entered from the left. "Bad guy" ships usually entered from the right.

LOL!!!

ROFLMAO!!!

LOL, LOL, LOL!!!!!!!!

>sigh<

LOL!!!!

"Again, Again!!"

The episode you're quoting isn't the most extreme "Nazi episode," in Trek history, by any means.

For that you want the Voyager episode, "The Killing Game."

Major Star Trek geek here. Currently rewatching Enterprise before I hit the Classic series again - yep, watching in series' history order (ain't Netflix grand? :lol. And yep, Patterns of Force is a great episode. But the biggest difference, to me at least, between TOS and the later stuff is sheer amount of rules and regulations. In Kirk's day, it was all about exploration. There were rules, but they seemed more of a guideline than anything else. Look at how many times Kirk violated the Prime Directive - with good cause. By the time of NextGen, they're so bogged down with rules and whatnot that it's a wonder they got anything done. The captain can't lead away parties, follow this protocol and that policy before talking to an ally , never mind a sacred First Contact, don't forget to salute, etc. etc. But then, the 60's, I suppose, were more about "rugged individuality" whereas the 90's were the decade of "it takes a village".

Just my two cents.