Iran to announce "very important" nuclear achievements

reply to post by bekod


No they are just bringing it up doing the same thing Israel and the US do to them, they may be switching tactics and trying to provoke Israel so it will be condemned because they know it is coming. Before Israel and the US were trying to provoke them, but that isn't happening.

reply to post by Xcathdra


He never said that. Give us the quote. We will translate it ourselves. You were called out on this in another thread. Why do you want to promote war so much? They aren't even close to having a bomb and probably aren't even trying to make one.

Originally posted by theBigToe
Okay, thats hanging. Theyre being hanged from a crane. You dont need to pretend its more then it is and get all technical about it. When there is a noose around your neck, its called a hanging.

I dunno.. I think if people were more informed about what occurs inside Iran the better. We can go into detail about the number of people under 17 Iran hangs, and the manner those cases came to conclusion.

My point being The wing nuts in Tehran have absolutely no respect for people at all. A girls gets raped, and instead of charging the man, the woman is charged for actions inconsistent with chastity and executed.

Sharia requires 4 witnesses to adultly. Iran gets around that by allowing 1 male to testify 4 times. The same mindset is behind their nuke program.

If its all the same, I would prefer people with that mindset dont get nukes, or access to anything close to it.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

He never said that. Give us the quote. We will translate it ourselves. You were called out on this in another thread. Why do you want to promote war so much? They aren't even close to having a bomb and probably aren't even trying to make one.

Irans government is ruled by Sharia.

Islam mandates that you exterminate all infidels or force them to submit to Islam.

They dont need a nuclear weapon for us to invade them - that would be stupid. The smart thing to do is to go in before they have the ability to use that kind of weapon, and force them to stop trying to produce one.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Im with you.

I just thought your little technicality about hanging was ironically funny, is all

reply to post by theBigToe


Yeah.. that isn't the smart thing to do.
It's actually the stupid thing to do. This never has been about nukes and if you guys think that for real you are half brain dead. Pakistan is a bigger concern when it comes to nukes.What about North Korea who has nukes and shelled an island last year and base their entire lives around a 60+ year old war.

You guys have bought into the Iran fear campaign just like the terrorist al qaida fear campaing (even though we are using them again in the middle east and no one ever said a word about it).

Also.. can you show where islam mandates that? I would like to see that passages. I have a Muslim friend. All that is just islamophobia.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by theBigToe

 

Yeah.. that isn't the smart thing to do.
It's actually the stupid thing to do. This never has been about nukes and if you guys think that for real you are half brain dead. Pakistan is a bigger concern when it comes to nukes.What about North Korea who has nukes and shelled an island last year and base their entire lives around a 60+ year old war.

You guys have bought into the Iran fear campaign just like the terrorist al qaida fear campaing (even though we are using them again in the middle east and no one ever said a word about it).

Iran has ALWAYS been about nukes. If you dont see that you are not paying attention - PERIOD. Cant believe you just said that. This is why a conversation with somebody like you is absolutely pointless. You instantly assume that everything is a conspiracy.

Please, get real.

reply to post by theBigToe


What evidence do you have that I don't have. Also I edited my last post to ad that Islam does not mandate that you kill infidels or any garbage like that. I challenge you to show me the passage.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

He never said that. Give us the quote. We will translate it ourselves. You were called out on this in another thread. Why do you want to promote war so much? They aren't even close to having a bomb and probably aren't even trying to make one.

I was and you and some others are in denial about being wrong. As I stated there, and here (which you ignored which is not surprising) is -

The Ayatollah (1979) set forth the doctrine to wipe Israel off the map and to kill all Jewish people wherever they are in the world.

Ahmadinejad has given numerous speeches, quoting that doctrine (and the Ayatollah from 1979), as he did with the now infamous " he was mistranslated" excuse. He wasn't mistranslated as he was quoting the Ayatollahs doctrine.

The current Ayatollah has called for Israeli to be cut out like a cancer.

Found here -
ATS Thread - Ayatollah: Kill all Jews, annihilate Israel
and this post

here

with the layout and explanation for those who deny it ever happened.

Not to mention this archived article from the IRIB, the official State controlled Iranian media source that was responsible for the translation -



Again not a group of people I want to see have access to nuclear weapons.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by theBigToe

 

What evidence do you have that I don't have. Also I edited my last post to ad that Islam does not mandate that you kill infidels or any garbage like that. I challenge you to show me the passage.

Wow. Pick up a Quran, buddy. You have clearly NEVER taken an initiative to study Islam so stop pretending that you know about it when you dont. People like you are full of lies. You want proof? This is what Iran bases its laws on:


The Quran:

Quran (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah." The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is thus disingenuous (the actual Muslim words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse). The actual Arabic comes from "fitna" which can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. Taken as a whole, the context makes clear that violence is being authorized until "religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.



Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."



Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.



Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."



Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').



Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle, as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. Here is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.



Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"



Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."



Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-" This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad and this is reflected in other translations of the verse).



Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely t

Quran (9:14) - "Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace..."



Quran (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant." The "striving" spoken of here is Jihad.



Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. This was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in just the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.


Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"



Quran (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place." This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.



Quran (9:41) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew." See also the verse that follows (9:42) - "If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them" This contradicts the myth that Muslims are to fight only in self-defense, since the wording implies that battle will be waged a long distance from home (in another country and on Christian soil, in this case, according to the historians).


Quran (9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination." Dehumanizing those who reject Islam, by reminding Muslims that they are merely firewood for Hell, makes it easier to justify slaughter. It also explains why today's devout Muslims have little regard for those outside the faith.



Quran (9:88) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper."


Quran (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."



Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."



Quran (17:16) - "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction." Note that the crime is moral transgression, and the punishment is "utter destruction." (Before ordering the 9/11 attacks, Osama bin Laden first issued Americans an invitation to Islam).



Quran (18:65-81) - This parable lays the theological groundwork for honor killings, in which a family member is murdered because they brought shame to the family, either through apostasy or perceived moral indiscretion. The story (which is not found in any Jewish or Christian source) tells of Moses encountering a man with "special knowledge" who does things which don't seem to make sense on the surface, but are then justified according to later explanation. One such action is to murder a youth for no apparent reason (74). However, the wise man later explains that it was feared that the boy would "grieve" his parents by "disobedience and ingratitude." He was killed so that Allah could provide them a 'better' son. (Note: This is one reason why honor killing is sanctioned by Sharia. Reliance of the Traveler (Umdat al-Saliq) says that punishment for murder is not applicable when a parent or grandparent kills their offspring (o.1.1-2).)



Quran (21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"



Quran (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..." "Strive against" is Jihad - obviously not in the personal context. It's also significant to point out that this is a Meccan verse.



Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter." This passage sanctions the slaughter (rendered "merciless" and "horrible murder" in other translations) against three groups: Hypocrites (Muslims who refuse to "fight in the way of Allah" (3:167) and hence don't act as Muslims should), those with "diseased hearts" (which include Jews and Christians 5:51-52), and "alarmists" or "agitators who include those who merely speak out against Islam, according to Muhammad's biographers. It is worth noting that the victims are to be sought out by Muslims, which is what today's terrorists do. If this passage is meant merely to apply to the city of Medina, then it is unclear why it is included in Allah's eternal word to Muslim generations.



Quran (47:3-4) - "Those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the truth from their lord. Thus does Allah set forth form men their lessons by similitude. Therefore when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners," Those who reject Allah are to be subdued in battle. The verse goes on to say the only reason Allah doesn't do the dirty work himself is in order to to test the faithfulness of Muslims. Those who kill pass the test. "But if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost."



Quran (47:35) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand") for Allah is with you,"



Quran (48:17) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom." Contemporary apologists sometimes claim that Jihad means 'spiritual struggle.' Is so, then why are the blind, lame and sick exempted?



Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves" Islam is not about treating everyone equally. There are two very distinct standards that are applied based on religious status.



Quran (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way" Religion of Peace, indeed! This is followed by (61:9): "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist."



Quran (61:10-12) - "O ye who believe! Shall I lead you to a bargain that will save you from a grievous Penalty?- That ye believe in Allah and His Messenger, and that ye strive (your utmost) in the Cause of Allah, with your property and your persons: That will be best for you, if ye but knew! He will forgive you your sins, and admit you to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, and to beautiful mansions in Gardens of Eternity." This verse was given in battle. It uses the Arabic word, Jihad.



Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end." The root word of "Jihad" is used again here. The context is clearly holy war, and the scope of violence is broadened to include "hypocrites" - those who call themselves Muslims but do not act as such.

From the Hadith:



Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."



Bukhari (52:256) - The Prophet... was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)." In this command, Muhammad establishes that it is permissible to kill non-combatants in the process of killing a perceived enemy. This provides justification for the many Islamic terror bombings.



Bukhari (52:220) - Allah's Apostle said... 'I have been made victorious with terror'



Abu Dawud (14:2526) - The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Three things are the roots of faith: to refrain from (killing) a person who utters, "There is no god but Allah" and not to declare him unbeliever whatever sin he commits, and not to excommunicate him from Islam for his any action; and jihad will be performed continuously since the day Allah sent me as a prophet until the day the last member of my community will fight with the Dajjal (Antichrist)



Abu Dawud (14:2527) - The Prophet said: Striving in the path of Allah (jihad) is incumbent on you along with every ruler, whether he is pious or impious



Muslim (1:33) - the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah



Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'. And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally."



Muslim (1:30) - "The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah."



Muslim (1:149) - "Abu Dharr reported: I said: Messenger of Allah, which of the deeds is the best? He (the Holy Prophet) replied: Belief in Allah and Jihad in His cause..."



Muslim (20:4645) - "...He (the Messenger of Allah) did that and said: There is another act which elevates the position of a man in Paradise to a grade one hundred (higher), and the elevation between one grade and the other is equal to the height of the heaven from the earth. He (Abu Sa'id) said: What is that act? He replied: Jihad in the way of Allah! Jihad in the way of Allah!"



Muslim (20:4696) - "the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: 'One who died but did not fight in the way of Allah nor did he express any desire (or determination) for Jihid died the death of a hypocrite.'"



Muslim (19:4321-4323) - Three separate hadith in which Muhammad shrugs over the news that innocent children were killed in a raid by his men against unbelievers. His response: "They are of them (meaning the enemy)."



Muslim (19:4294) - "When the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) appointed anyone as leader of an army or detachment he would especially exhort him... He would say: Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war... When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them... If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them.



Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power." Ashraf was a poet, killed by Muhammad's men because he insulted Islam. Here, Muhammad widens the scope of his orders to kill. An innocent Jewish businessman was then slain by his Muslim partner, merely for being non-Muslim.



Tabari 9:69 "Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us" The words of Muhammad, prophet of Islam.



Tabari 17:187 "'By God, our religion (din) from which we have departed is better and more correct than that which these people follow. Their religion does not stop them from shedding blood, terrifying the roads, and seizing properties.' And they returned to their former religion." The words of a group of Christians who had converted to Islam, but realized their error after being shocked by the violence and looting committed in the name of Allah. The price of their decision to return to a religion of peace was that the men were beheaded and the woman and children enslaved by the caliph Ali.



Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 327: - “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”



Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 990: - Lest anyone think that cutting off someone's head while screaming 'Allah Akbar!' is a modern creation, here is an account of that very practice under Muhammad, who seems to approve.



Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 992: - "Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah." Muhammad's instructions to his men prior to a military raid.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Yeah.. and you gave me a pre translated document. As anyone can see on that thread you linked it is dis proven as a miss translation. I noticed you didn't share that information though.

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

He never said that. Give us the quote. We will translate it ourselves. You were called out on this in another thread. Why do you want to promote war so much? They aren't even close to having a bomb and probably aren't even trying to make one.

I was and you and some others are in denial about being wrong. As I stated there, and here (which you ignored which is not surprising) is -

The Ayatollah (1979) set forth the doctrine to wipe Israel off the map and to kill all Jewish people wherever they are in the world.

Ahmadinejad has given numerous speeches, quoting that doctrine (and the Ayatollah from 1979), as he did with the now infamous " he was mistranslated" excuse. He wasn't mistranslated as he was quoting the Ayatollahs doctrine.

The current Ayatollah has called for Israeli to be cut out like a cancer.

Found here -
ATS Thread - Ayatollah: Kill all Jews, annihilate Israel
and this post

here

with the layout and explanation for those who deny it ever happened.

Not to mention this archived article from the IRIB, the official State controlled Iranian media source that was responsible for the translation -

Again not a group of people I want to see have access to nuclear weapons.

Hell never accept the truth. Its right in front of him in black and white and hes going to deny it until hes blue in the face. Lets just stop feeding him. A thick skull is the far left liberals way.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by theBigToe

 

What evidence do you have that I don't have. Also I edited my last post to ad that Islam does not mandate that you kill infidels or any garbage like that. I challenge you to show me the passage.

While he is getting that for you, how about you head back into the Marine Sniper thread and produce your evidence that the Marines are lying about knowing what the symbol means. You are claiming they know when they are stating they didn't. Or does the demand of evidence only work one way with you?

As far as Islam goes you are a bit off in that regard. However, even if Islam did support that incorrect view, we still have a government in Tehran who is ignoring it. This is evident by their support of Hamas and Hezbullah, both groups whose charter calls for the destruction of Israel.

If Tehran gets a nuke, or close to it, can you really state for sure that the IRGC, who is now in control of the nuke program, wont supply groups (Hamas / Hezbullah) with nuclear material / bomb?


reply to post by theBigToe

Fair point.. Whats even funnier are these people who make the claims the document was translated. Had they spent anytime researching this issue, instead of just repeating what they are told to, they would know the website, IRIB, has many different language selections, just like Farsnews does.

Even the wiki page covering this states the IRIB / IRNA is where the translations came from, both state controlled Iranian media. So much for that whole deny ignorance motto on this site.

reply to post by theBigToe


Old testament
"When the LORD your God brings you into the land where you are entering to possess it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girga#es and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you. And when the LORD your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and show no favor to them. (Deutronomy 7:1-2)

"When you approach a city to fight against it, you shall offer it terms of peace. If it agrees to make peace with you and opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall become your forced labor and shall serve you. However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. When the LORD your God gives it into your hand, you shall strike all the men in it with the edge of the sword. Only the women and the children and the animals and all that is in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourself; and you shall use the spoil of your enemies which the LORD your God has given you... Only in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes (Deutronomy 20:10-17)

Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. But all the girls who have not known man intimately, sparefor yourselves. (Numbers 31:17-18)

New Testament
"I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence. (Luke 19:26-27)

You are posting pieces, many taken out of context. Here is the full part from your "and kill them wherever ye catch them"

"Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors. And kill them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression. The prohibited month, for the prohibited month, and so for all things prohibited, there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress ye likewise against him. But fear Allah, and know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves." (al-Baqarah 2:190-194)

It is a religion no more violent than any other. What makes them different is external factors.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by theBigToe

 

Old testament
"When the LORD your God brings you into the land where you are entering to possess it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girga#es and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you. And when the LORD your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and show no favor to them. (Deutronomy 7:1-2)

"When you approach a city to fight against it, you shall offer it terms of peace. If it agrees to make peace with you and opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall become your forced labor and shall serve you. However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. When the LORD your God gives it into your hand, you shall strike all the men in it with the edge of the sword. Only the women and the children and the animals and all that is in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourself; and you shall use the spoil of your enemies which the LORD your God has given you... Only in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes (Deutronomy 20:10-17)

Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. But all the girls who have not known man intimately, sparefor yourselves. (Numbers 31:17-18)

New Testament
"I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence. (Luke 19:26-27)

You are posting pieces, many taken out of context. Here is the full part from your "and kill them wherever ye catch them"

"Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors. And kill them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression. The prohibited month, for the prohibited month, and so for all things prohibited, there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress ye likewise against him. But fear Allah, and know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves." (al-Baqarah 2:190-194)

It is a religion no more violent than any other. What makes them different is external factors.

Wanna stay on topic?

I never once said anything about Christianity or Judaism, and if I had said anything about them at all, they would be in the same boat as Islam. Islam is in control of military's and governments, not Judaism and Christianity.

reply to post by Xcathdra


They support those groups for other reasons, but you guys are so stuck on Israel you probably don't know anything else of what goes on in the middle east. You act like it's just Israel and Iran.

I responded where I needed to in that other thread. If you want to refuse common sense then go ahead. If you think not one out of ten men know a nazi symbol that has come at them all their life in history books and ww2 movies than you are lost.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

They support those groups for other reasons, but you guys are so stuck on Israel you probably don't know anything else of what goes on in the middle east. You act like it's just Israel and Iran.

Do you really believe what you say?

Hamas Charter

Hamas Principles
The principles of the Hamas are stated in their Covenant or Charter, given in full below. Following are highlights.

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).

or did the people who wrote their charter mistranslate it???

"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "

Islamic?? Being Islam came around in the 600's +/- I dont see how Islam an claim anything. I mean aside from hijacking the Palestinian issue for their own goals...

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

Ah more peace and coexistence.

The above are just 3 highlights of the Hamas charter. A group Iran supports fully - through ideology, religion, goals, funding and weapons.

Their goals towards Israel are one in the same, no matter how you try and spin / obfuscate the issue by offering the excuse "for different reasons".

The same government that supports Hamas and the destruction of Israel wants nukes. Why do they need nukes? Chances are its because they would get their butts handed to them in a conventional war, so they want the instant I win button. The current leadership in Iran are firm believers in the ushering in of the 12th Mahdi which will signal the end times and the domination of Islam over all others.

Again, they need psychiatric help, not a nuclear program.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
New Testament
"I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence. (Luke 19:26-27)

You are posting pieces, many taken out of context. Here is the full part from your "and kill them wherever ye catch them"

Talk about taking things out of context...you just quoted two verses from the Parable of the Ten Talents...this is not direction from Jesus on how to treat his enemies...this was the quotes of the king to his servants in the parable.

Unlike the teachings of Muhammed, who considered anyone who was not of Islam to be an unbeliever and therefore an enemy, Jesus taught NOT to fight or kill those who were not believers....

Matthew 5:43-44
"You have heard that it is said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you."

Luke 6:28
"Bless those who curse you, pray for those who ill treat you."

Fact is that Islam is incredibly intolerant of other religions and justifies the violent attack of those religions and their followers. Look at the amount of persecution of other religions in Islamist countries...then look at the freedom they have here in the US to practice their religion freely and openly. Is Islam under scrutiny and criticism here...unfortunately yes...but only because of the radical persecution of Christians in those Islamist countries.