US Marines posed with Nazi symbol in Afghanistan

Originally posted by clowdstalker

I don't care if they were borrowed from ancient religions. I don't care if they used to represent faery dust and gumdrop kisses! In lieu of certain not so trivial events of historical significance, those symbols, recycled or otherwise, single-handedly represent one the worst tragedies in modern history, are a summation of Nazi ideologies, and through their use an acceptance of those ideologies. PERIOD.

So, using a quote from you:

When will we, as a people, learn to understand, remember, then MOVE ON from that. Instead of holding on the the evil the whole 'NAZI' thing represents....why dont we , um, MOVE ON!

SO when can 'we' as a people be 'allowed' to recycle all those Nazi associated symbols and move on to something new?????????


Im waiting......

Originally posted by ThatGuy45
IT DOESNT MATTER! I am so sick of hearing people bitch about this stuff.

ITS CALLED WAR!

All is fair in Love and War. Plain and simple. There is nothing pleasant, graceful, happy or positive about war and death other than it forces change. When your job is to kill day in and day out - you have to find some way of 'grounding' yourself: keeping sane. And to these men, this picture is a statement of honer or something, whatever, that is meaningful.........TO THEM! NOT US. We are not there. We do not know what is going on.
And the whole "NAZI" card has been waaaaaaaaaay over played.


Get over it.
Grow up.

Deal with it!


Rape and murder happen every day....annnnd I dont see those things getting this kind of exposure...

:shk: hmmm.....

edit on 10/2/12 by ThatGuy45 because: (no reason given)

I would like to ask what change has been brought about by our current undeclared wars?? Other than more war.

Should we keep digging our way out of that war hole?? or maybe *GASP* try the opposite of war.

Honestly, if our military policy was.... Hey this is a problem, lets go there win and come home.

but NOOOOOOOOO lets go there stir the dirt pussy foot around and add pick on more countries to add them to the fight... with no clear goal or plan to end the conflict.. which was caused by an undeclared war.

that is garbage.

Interesting buzz about this picture. And to those who were wondering about if Chris Kyle was in that picture, He is NOT. He was a Navy Seal, not a USMC Scout Sniper.

Originally posted by ThatGuy45
SO when can 'we' as a people be 'allowed' to recycle all those Nazi associated symbols and move on to something new?????????


Im waiting......

Simple Answer: NEVER! As a tool to remember the atrocities of the past only. But to bring back into active duty..by of all groups our military. Not Now Not Ever!

ETA: And why on gods green earth would anyone even want to!?

Gee, I think I really like wearing a white sheet over my head with eye holes cut out...when do you think it will be OKIE DOKIE to bring that trendy little fashion statement back? /end sarcasm.

Read what you are saying.

reply to post by clowdstalker


It's that kind of hatred, "enthusiasm", incapability to accept other people's errors, and attitude that brought to power people like Hitler.

You know why? Because people were "disgusted", "green with disgust" over thing's that didn't matter.

What should we do? Go ape-sh!t crazy because someone makes the wrong logo? Crucify them for being ignorant, or making a mistake?

Nobody is letting it go. They are actually making the opposite. There are important threads and issues being discussed in ATS that don't have HALF of the attention this crap is getting.

And you have the balls to say that this is unacceptable? Seriously.

It's lack of understanding that leads to hate, and it's hate that leads to suffering. Guess in which category your words fall into.

16 pages and going strong, huh?
I don't care what anybody says. In my mind,there is only one "inference" to the double lightning bolt.

These are scout snipers. They know what it refers to as well. I can't ask how many of them support or like the idea that someone put that flag under the US flag for their pic. Does it really matter? Look what they are holding in their arms. What do they do for a living again? Bad Juju. Who cares about the flag.

Schutzstaffel

Originally posted by ThatGuy45

Originally posted by clowdstalker

I don't care if they were borrowed from ancient religions. I don't care if they used to represent faery dust and gumdrop kisses! In lieu of certain not so trivial events of historical significance, those symbols, recycled or otherwise, single-handedly represent one the worst tragedies in modern history, are a summation of Nazi ideologies, and through their use an acceptance of those ideologies. PERIOD.

So, using a quote from you:

When will we, as a people, learn to understand, remember, then MOVE ON from that. Instead of holding on the the evil the whole 'NAZI' thing represents....why dont we , um, MOVE ON!

SO when can 'we' as a people be 'allowed' to recycle all those Nazi associated symbols and move on to something new?????????


Im waiting......

there is nothing new under the sun.. History repeats itself... unless you have not noticed. Forgetting what those symbols currently stand for is like forgetting that such evil can exist and will return once you forget about it. A symbol is a reminder of what happened. Kinda like a history book is, a reminder of the past.. .people easily forget history since you have to read it. A symbol is more easily remembered and what it stands for since it is visual.

THe nazi symbols cannot take on their old meaning or any new meaning since nothing as strong as what they represent now has been associated with them. you are asking to purposely forget what they mean instead of letting it take its natural course.



I would really like to know what new stuff we need to move on to considering that history has and will continue to repeat itself. tech may change and names may change but its the same ol song and dance.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
It's not up to me. It is up to US commanders and politicians to produce the image of their efforts to the effect of what they expect back from the international community. If they do nothing, then they are complacent and will be judged by the rest of the world for it.

So then what do you want out of all this, to get your hate out?

And it is that difference in perception that separates the commanders from the soldiers. If you can't see the importance of a flag, then you probably won't find yourself commanding an operation in the name of your country- doing so requires a sense of the bigger (strategic) picture.

Right, I'm just a soldier, a follower, another way of saying sheep. I can't possibly understand what a flag is and everything you say is right and everything I say is wrong, if I have any opposing opinion of yours then obviously I don't get the bigger picture. /sarcasm

So your giving me basic cookie cutter responses now that you can find in any ATS thread? The way you post here I was thinking you were the all seeing all knowing god of the internet.

I never stated that it was anything other than that sniper team's own flag. I did state that the situation is extremely questionable that has allowed this team to adopt that symbol as their own, and even bothered to cover up their use of it as some innocent misunderstanding.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
And I'll state it again, flags and symbols are all-important in times of political conflict. You fight to expand the borders of your cause, symbolized by that flag. You national cause means absolutely jack sh*t unless you bring a flag to stake your claim, and in bringing that flag you are committing to its purpose.

Okay then, what the hell are you talking about national causes for? What was all this about, did your anti-US bias slip through and you accidental painted the entire US as Nazis? What does a sniper units flag have to do with a national cause?

Nothing, the unit's flag is irrelevant.

And quite frankly, the alliance between US and surviving Nazis was definitely there after the end of WWII (Operation Paperclip/Gladio), but it was swept under the carpet from common perception. Even with this as fact, what do you think American veterans who fought against the Nazis during WWII would say about this? What would the dead say?

Nothing and nothing, neither one complains this much. If anything, the veterans would probably support the soldier's using whatever symbolism they want.

Why in the name of God would I ever go to your country? It is the epitome of decadence and quite honestly I probably wouldn't even make it out of the airport without creating an international incident. I'm doing just fine in my country where one can walk into the forest without ever running into some urban sprawl.

Then why should anyone listen to your constant rants about the US? You've never even been here.

There are in fact forests in the US. I guess you are against urbanization or what? Or was that another pointless jab at America?

I'm sure if you follow up to this it will be another "why would I ever want to go your horrible country" crap even though I never asked you to come, I asked if you have. Make both of us happy and stay out.

And what was my point? That neo-nazis exist in the US and that it would probably take neo-nazis to adopt a nazi symbol within the US military. Do you not find it disturbing that one of your deployed military units has adopted nazi symbolism?

No, because like described earlier (remember, you discounted it as grasping at straws and skipped that part) that style of writing is not unique to the Nazi SS, it exists in America with no Nazi involvement. This is why I asked you if you have been here and got your anti-US filled response with no substance.

Moreover, there is no law of the universe that states two different things cannot have the same vague symbol, using letters that occur in both nations common languages. If the damn flag had been in a different font, would it matter? Does this really matter anyways? Whose grasping at straws

I would say you have been doing that all along.

And by your description, I really hope that you don't listen to Metallica. Because I do and have been doing so for many years, and never has it lead me to even think of adopting Nazi symbolism in what I do.

You missed the point entirely and proved mine. Metallica uses a similar font to the SS flag, kids in America write like that and it has nothing to do with Nazism or the SS, apparently so do you. Why does it all the sudden symbolize Nazism when the marines do it as opposed to someone else?

No I don't like Metallica, I used to before they sold all their fans out to go on a copyright crusade.

You shouldn't even accept people into your military if they are of a mental level

What mental level is that? Everyone who isn't aware of the Nazi SS?

I'd say our military has been quite successful, how about yours?

Maybe you should put some of your infinite genius towards your own military, instead of going on and on about the most powerful one in the world.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


I'm pretty sure the guy on the very far right who is crouching down isn't actually white. Furthermore, what does it matter? I highly doubt they were using the SS symbol in that respect. The way those S's are written isn't a Nazi thing. It's old runic script from Scandinavia and the Vikings. And as others have said SS, Scout Sniper, duh.

Instead of them being Nazi sympathizers I find it way more likely they just liked the aesthetic appeal of the S's and decided to put them together form "Scout Sniper".

There are pictures all over the internet of companies doing that. Like the one where some web designer used the Pedobear meme as a mascot.

people were "disgusted", "green with disgust" over thing's that didn't matter.

I find our military flying Nazi flags to be something that Matters. In a really big way. You know what else brought about Hitler's power? People turning their heads and refusing to see.

Originally posted by Tifozi
And you have the balls to say that this is unacceptable? Seriously..

You bet your A** buddy and I will do it again. UNACCEPTABLE.

reply to post by clowdstalker


I do read what I am saying.

And I feel YOU are in a closed loop of thinking. If you cant move on then you are stuck.

And I pity your outcome.

Originally posted by Tifozi
reply to post by clowdstalker

 

It's lack of understanding that leads to hate, and it's hate that leads to suffering. Guess in which category your words fall into.

Thank you. Somebody else who sees the 'bigger' picture.

MOVE ON. THIS IS SOO INSIGNIFICANT THAT I AM "green with disgust"

Originally posted by clowdstalker

Originally posted by Tifozi
And you have the balls to say that this is unacceptable? Seriously..

You bet your A** buddy and I will do it again. UNACCEPTABLE.

Then you can bet my azz again.

You know what was the logo used by the nazi air force(Luftwaffe) during world war 2?

It was this one:



Do you know which logo they use today in Germany Air Force (still called Luftwaffe)?

It's this one:



And you know why not even Germans them-selfs are bothered by this? Because they actually understand that "Luftwaffe" isn't a Nazi name, it's a generic term for Air Force in german (I think, or something similar to that).

And the insignia used by it is the Iron Cross, which has nothing to do with the Nazi regime of Hitler.

Seriously, the only reason why all this is unnaceptable by you and many others, is due to ignorance and lack of understanding. Both really disgusting personality faults, using your own words.

reply to post by StopFearMongering


Yea, apparently everyone who writes the letters "SS" in that particular font is a Nazi sympathizer. Because the Japanese flag symbolizes the sun, I guess that means we are all Japanese since we live in the solar system. Let's spend a bunch more money and time on something stupid because people love to complain about things they have nothing to do with.

Originally posted by clowdstalker

I find our military flying Nazi flags to be something that Matters. In a really big way. You know what else brought about Hitler's power? People turning their heads and refusing to see.

Your nazi military flag? So now it's YOUR nazi flag (or even theirs)? Really? You have come to that?

No, it wasn't people turning their heads away. It was people turning their heads TOWARDS hate. Hate against the jews, hatred against the different, the disabled, the people who weren't productive enough.

People were manipulated over symbolism. Because the nazi and german pride was in the arian race, and not something else that wasn't supported by hate or discrimination.

It was people who were ignorant to the real meaning of things that put Hitler into power. People who didn't know how to separate frustration from truth, anger and revolt from reason.

THAT'S the main lesson to be taken from History and WW2, not what logos people should or shouldn't use.

Your arguments are utterly pathetic, and your lack of ability to accept someone's error is appalling.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


So they're claiming it was all a 'Naive Mistake'???

Honestly I'm not sure which is worse...the fact that they might all be racist...or the idea that they might all be so uneducated, that not a single one of them could recognize one of the most well known symbols of the Nazis....

Well... that is how most the word see's them... unfortunatly.

I mean sure you guys didnt kill 6 million jews, but if we actually found all the bodies of all the jews the nazis killed (not 6 million), and compared them to how many middle eastern people youve killed for failed democrocy (Oil), i bet it is pretty close.

In other words, not everyone beleives your propoganda, if you say your enmey killied 6 milllion people, it was probably 1 million, if you say you only killed 100,000 you probably killed 1 million... its really common sense.

And the main problem, we cant beleive anything you say because your governement is a compulsive liar factory.

One of many reasons I'd never join the military in any fashion is because of covered up racism.

I'm not surprised at all LOL.
Just because these guys are marine or soldiers doesn't make them any smarter.

Originally posted by Tifozi
reply to post by clowdstalker

 

It's that kind of hatred, "enthusiasm", incapability to accept other people's errors, and attitude that brought to power people like Hitler.

You know why? Because people were "disgusted", "green with disgust" over thing's that didn't matter.

What should we do? Go ape-sh!t crazy because someone makes the wrong logo? Crucify them for being ignorant, or making a mistake?

Nobody is letting it go. They are actually making the opposite. There are important threads and issues being discussed in ATS that don't have HALF of the attention this crap is getting.

And you have the balls to say that this is unacceptable? Seriously.

It's lack of understanding that leads to hate, and it's hate that leads to suffering. Guess in which category your words fall into.

Who are you or anyone to say what does and does not matter in this case? Aparantly it does matter to people it is really as simple as that. These are armed active military troops under the flag of nazi symbolism. If they are to dumb to realize that themselves then they are simply not fit to operate anywhere since they cannot even properly represent who and what they are fighting for.

These guys could have printed the numbers 666 on the flag and this thread would still be filled with apologists defending it.