Missouri teen girl gets 'life' for killing 9yr girl to 'find out what it felt like'...

Originally posted by Glass

Originally posted by n00bUK
This is yet another example of why there needs to be an alternative to prison.

I have nothing else to say other than I think story's like this should touch everybody's soul and make them realize that the system we have now has major faults. Prison wont change this girl, it will institutionalize her and give her a very distort her view on reality at a young age. There is ways of helping this girl, prison not been one of them.

My thoughts go out with the family, on both sides.

Society needs to look at what is triggering this type of behavior and instead of imprisoning them - deal with the problem, not put it on ice

There is an alternative to prison; life in a psychiatric institution. In my opinion she should be institutionalized, but not in prison. She needs proper psychiatric care. Plus, psychologists could use her as a case study to help learn what happened to drive her to killing an innocent child, which could help prevent others from following in her footsteps.

Prison will change this girl. Being surrounded by other killers and psychopaths for 25+ years will set her on the path to becoming a professional killer. A lot of gangs do their recruiting in prisons. In 25 years time she will have met hundreds of contacts who could get her working for the toughest crimelords in the country.

Imagine it, you're 40 years old, fresh out of prison. Your whole life has passed you by, and the one memory you have of your childhood is the exhilaration of commiting cold blooded murder. What do you think you want to do for the rest of your life?

This is it, shes going to be a killer forever now, there's no way around it. I strongly stand by that if this child was contacted at a young age and taken away from the environment, she wouldn't of wanted to kill somebody. You cant be born a killer, you have to be conditioned into it, knowingly or unknowingly.

Id like to raise a issue that i brought to light with my second post of this thread - You said it your self, if your locked away for X amount of years around other people with the same thought process as you - you wont change, you will just fear other people and put them thoughts to the side until you have moved the fear away, then continue on your own thought process of (killing in this case) ..

Anyway, putting a person in prison with more people with the same attitude does nothing but feed their thoughts. I know dozens upon dozens of people who have been prison and changed so much their unrecognizable when they come out. i.e weigh 16 stone and are looking to pull the next bank robbery with the boys they met in prison. Our prison (uk) are nothing but training grounds to create criminal gangs and if not that then drug users - heroin, to escape the fact you have to defend your self more than anybody should ever have to in life.

If our government are going to sit back and watch are youth deteriorate, then at least provide a system which when caught up in criminal activity - give them a chance to change, not keep on the same path ( a system which we're in now)

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by n00bUK

 

That poor little victim couldn't have known these things about that monster. However, we do now as a society...and it's the responsibility of society to insure that evil monster never gets near another unsuspecting victim again, for the rest of her natural life.

Second chances? Priceless. So is removing an animal in human form, before it kills again though.

edit on 8-2-2012 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

Do you think life in prison with the possibility of parole will keep her away from an unsuspecting victim indefinitely?

We are not just removing an "animal in human form", we are throwing "it" into a cage with hundreds of similar creatures for a minimum of 25 years, possibly even letting "it" out if "it" develops the ability to act like a human being.

We can't simply lock up our problems and forget about them. We should be working to understand her. But of course the justice system is too flawed and shortsighted to allow that.

reply to post by silo13


...and like the lion, or any other animal that kills a human... They realize just how easy it is...

Disturbing doesn't quite cover it.

I wish the family of the victim nothing but peace, and healing...

Originally posted by Glass

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by n00bUK

 

That poor little victim couldn't have known these things about that monster. However, we do now as a society...and it's the responsibility of society to insure that evil monster never gets near another unsuspecting victim again, for the rest of her natural life.

Second chances? Priceless. So is removing an animal in human form, before it kills again though.

edit on 8-2-2012 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

Do you think life in prison with the possibility of parole will keep her away from an unsuspecting victim indefinitely?

We are not just removing an "animal in human form", we are throwing "it" into a cage with hundreds of similar creatures for a minimum of 25 years, possibly even letting "it" out if it develops the ability to act like a human being.

We can't simply lock up our problems and forget about them. We should be working to understand her. But of course the justice system is too flawed and shortsighted to allow that.

Understand her? I understand she is a monster and she brutally snuffed the life from an innocent child. Then she went home and sat wondering about how neat it made her feel. I can't begin to imagine the depravity required. I can see past the ACT ITSELF.....if she was devestated by what she had done. However, HER natural reaction was one of elation and excitment. Not horror. I understand evil about as much as I ever care to or need to. She's evil. Next?


True on how throwing her into the lions den, so to speak, isn't the best solution. You're right. I wouldn't call anyone inside prison an unsuspecting victim, but she will rise to a new level of brutal inside, I'm sure. How to address that? Well, I'd prefer we just step back and pump 2 rounds into her head from point blank range. Society won't let me solve it my way though, so prison for natural life is the next best option when the monster is 3 years too young to kill outright.

Originally posted by Taupin Desciple
Even in prison though, this 15 year old is going to experience life. Something the 9 year old can't do. That isn't right.

An eye for an eye.

...

Killing for the sake of it has been going on for a LONG time. You can't blame drugs.....you can't blame the current society, you can't blame the parents. At 15 she has her own mind. You blame HER. Period.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

To use another old cliche, killing this girl makes us no better than her. Killing her now eliminates any chance of preventing a tragedy such as this in the future.

And what if you can blame the drugs? Not that this is about placing blame, but what if the drugs altered her state of mind, allowing the line of thought that supported her curiousity about murder? Drugs have been known to alter your brain, especially antidepressents. Hell, it's what they're designed to do.

reply to post by Glass


Sometimes there is no understanding them. They don't "fix", or "heal", or whatever descriptor you care to use.

It would be nice if it could be fixed... But sometimes that just isn't an option. Evil exists. I've met it in human form, and there is no fixing it. You either lock it away, where it can't hurt anyone ever again, or you remove it permanently. Because it will harm others if measures are not taken to prevent it.

Maybe this girl isn't evil. Maybe she is indeed a victim of society, or depression...in that case maybe she'll get some help, but in the meantime? She needs to be kept away from others, since it's fairly evident that she's a danger to others.

From the link, a quote from her:

"I strangled them and slit their throat and stabbed them now they're dead," Bustamante wrote in her diary, which was read in court by a handwriting expert. "I don't know how to feel atm. It was ahmazing. As soon as you get over the 'ohmygawd I can't do this' feeling, it's pretty enjoyable. I'm kinda nervous and shaky though right now. [color=gold]Kay, I gotta go to church now...lol."

Typical church goer in my opinion...

Go to church one day a week to "wash" away your "sins" from the other 6 days. Now being "squeaky clean" again to resume the cycle...

Disgusting behavior but at least she is assured a free-pass into "heaven" via church.

I used to take Prozac and even though I am a very peaceful and polite and loving person, I have had violent and perverted thoughts and actually have been worried that I might act on them. To this day I live with the guilt of the horrible thoughts I have had and how I could never share them completely with anyone because they would be disturbed and I wonder if they might not care about me anymore.

I think you guys should think twice before condemning this girl. She might just be rotten, but she might be a tortured soul as well. Caring about the poor girl she killed does not require hating her and wishing her the same fate.

I think its very easy for young children to be sucked into a thought process of evil. We're bombarded with things that if not around the right, responsible people - we're lead astray very fast. I honestly think this is what has happened to this girl.

Bustamante was born to teenage, drug-abusing parents; her father was imprisoned and her mother abandoned her, leaving her in the legal custody of her grandmother.

After a suicide attempt on Labor Day 2007 as she was starting eighth grade, Bustamante was prescribed the antidepressant Prozac

Any young child who's character is not built(none below 21 really) would be a victim of these circumstances. I stand by that if she was taken away and put into a better system, she would not do this. Obviously many more things happened to this young soul that made her mentality they way it is.

Her family failed her, then society failed her - which pushed her to these actions.


Through her taking such actions, she put her self on a path of self destruction because of system provides nothing to help these type of people. She will live with the guilt for eternity, probably turning the empathy into a twisted emotion just to deal with it, in the long run, making her a worse person.

Her family failed her, the society failed her and now she is going to be forgotten about and added to the collection of children who also did twisted things because they had a distorted view of reality that nobody was willing to deal with

Id like to add. im not defending what she did. I just like people to understand the big picture.

Peace

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Understand her? I understand she is a monster and she brutally snuffed the life from an innocent child. Then she went home and sat wondering about how neat it made her feel. I can't begin to imagine the depravity required. I can see past the ACT ITSELF.....if she was devestated by what she had done. However, HER natural reaction was one of elation and excitment. Not horror. I understand evil about as much as I ever care to or need to. She's evil. Next?

Exactly the kind of short-sighted response I was expecting. I don't mean to be condescending, but this is a typical emotional response that inhibits progression towards a better way.

I'll say again, I don't mean to insult you. I'm challenging you to look past the disgust you feel.

Understand that this girl was on mind-altering prescription drugs. Therefore the feelings she described were not those of a "natural reaction". You choose to see her as evil because of her actions, but her actions were preceded by a thought; a thought which would not have been produced naturally in her mind.

True on how throwing her into the lions den, so to speak, isn't the best solution. You're right. I wouldn't call anyone inside prison an unsuspecting victim, but she will rise to a new level of brutal inside, I'm sure. How to address that? Well, I'd prefer we just step back and pump 2 rounds into her head from point blank range. Society won't let me solve it my way though, so prison for natural life is the next best option when the monster is 3 years too young to kill outright.

I wasn't speaking of any other inmates as unsuspecting victims, I'm looking toward the future after her parole when she will most likely seek to kill again.

I've already stated how I feel about executing a person such as this. It eliminates any possibility of understanding the cause. And I very strongly suspect that by following the chain of events we will find that the cause lies with the drugs she was taking.

Originally posted by seagull
Sometimes there is no understanding them. They don't "fix", or "heal", or whatever descriptor you care to use.

It would be nice if it could be fixed... But sometimes that just isn't an option.

I agree, sometimes it absolutely isn't an option and not everyone can be rehabilitated or "fixed" or "healed".... but I'm thinking a girl that was pretty depressed, screwed up and on drugs that perhaps at her age shouldn't have been on... is perhaps on of the people that Can be saved.

She's 15 (or was when she committed the crime) so essentially what the court (and you) are saying is that there is absolutely no way that over the next 10, 20, 30 or 40 years...this girl will ever come to terms with what she did, will ever show remorse and feel guilt and seek absolution?
I think it's very short sighted and actually unjust to take the stance that the court has, in deciding that this girl remains in prison for absolutely ever.

And none of what I've said above should be misinterpreted to mean that I am not 100% shocked and disgusted by what she did and that I am not absolutely gutted for the victims parents.

I just feel that to write off someone so young as just purely evil and unfixable is really not helpful or healthy.

Originally posted by HangTheTraitors
From the link, a quote from her:

"I strangled them and slit their throat and stabbed them now they're dead," Bustamante wrote in her diary, which was read in court by a handwriting expert. "I don't know how to feel atm. It was ahmazing. As soon as you get over the 'ohmygawd I can't do this' feeling, it's pretty enjoyable. I'm kinda nervous and shaky though right now. [color=gold]Kay, I gotta go to church now...lol."

Typical church goer in my opinion...

Go to church one day a week to "wash" away your "sins" from the other 6 days. Now being "squeaky clean" again to resume the cycle...

Disgusting behavior but at least she is assured a free-pass into "heaven" via church.

edit on 8-2-2012 by HangTheTraitors because: (no reason given)

What?!? Typical?

Hardly a typical church "goer" at all.

You don't think much before you open your mouth do you?

reply to post by blupblup


If she can be helped, then by all means do so. I'd want nothing else.

That's the first option. But it isn't, as much as we may all want it to, going to work in all cases. Should it be tried? Of course.

Maybe my life experiences have jaded me...I don't know. I hope that I'm proven wrong. But this girl strikes me as irredeemable. Some of you believe otherwise, and that's fine...and I'm not so self centered as to want to be right all the time... I hope this is one of those cases.

Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by Glass

 

Sometimes there is no understanding them. They don't "fix", or "heal", or whatever descriptor you care to use.

It would be nice if it could be fixed... But sometimes that just isn't an option. Evil exists. I've met it in human form, and there is no fixing it. You either lock it away, where it can't hurt anyone ever again, or you remove it permanently. Because it will harm others if measures are not taken to prevent it.

Maybe this girl isn't evil. Maybe she is indeed a victim of society, or depression...in that case maybe she'll get some help, but in the meantime? She needs to be kept away from others, since it's fairly evident that she's a danger to others.

I know it can be nearly impossible to repair the damage which is already done. That is why I have no hope that this girl can ever lead a normal life in the future. However, that is not the reason why I think we should understand her.

If we could isolate the cause, we could identify warning signs that could potentially lead to another tragedy such as this. If the prozac was the cause, for example, we could ensure that doctors either don't prescribe the crap to impressionable teens, or have them check with their patients regularly to see if they are experiencing any disturbing thoughts.

Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by blupblup

 

If she can be helped, then by all means do so. I'd want nothing else.

OK cool, seemed like perhaps it wasn't something you wanted.

Good

That's the first option. But it isn't, as much as we may all want it to, going to work in all cases. Should it be tried? Of course.

Oh absolutely.. as I said, some people will Never be rehabilitated... just not possible.

Maybe my life experiences have jaded me...I don't know. I hope that I'm proven wrong. But this girl strikes me as irredeemable.

Well I dunno man... I'm a realist (borderline cynic ) and I just think that at least they should try, that's all.
As I said, a young girl at her age has every chance.

Some of you believe otherwise, and that's fine.

It's not so much believing or that this particular girl will definitely be rehabilitated, but it's the principal.
I would rather they did everything in their power and really worked with this girl to understand, rehabilitate and reform and help her to have some sort of a future.

Yes I understand she is not the victim and that she did commit a serious and heinous crime... but I think the "why" she did is something that the system and professionals should really look at and solve.

Originally posted by Glass
Therefore the feelings she described were not those of a "natural reaction". You choose to see her as evil because of her actions, but her actions were preceded by a thought; a thought which would not have been produced naturally in her mind.

You are psychic?

You, as well as me, have no idea what her 'natural reaction' or 'natural thoughts' would have been. Drugs or otherwise.

There are most definitely people in this world that enjoy killing. There has been since long before pharmaceutical companies ever existed. This girl may have been one of them. She may not have been. We will never know with any certainty.

reply to post by silo13


Some people are truly insane from the get go. This 'child' is one of those people. But then again, I would have hoped that she could have gotten the help she obviously needs. If she shows signs of improvement and realizes what she's done is evil beyond comprehension, then maybe she could get the opportunity to be paroled. If not, let her rot.

(This is the first time I've felt such a way about someone as young as this.)

Out come the cries of how cruel and evil she is....and then the calls for her blood....yet they never see their hypocrisy.....

You know...you cry it is wrong to kill...yet...let us kill her...

reply to post by silo13


I dont think medicine had anything to do with this. That seemed very apparent based on the recovered pages from her diary that she had tried to destroy after the fact.


reply to post by kerazeesicko

At what point would you like to acknowledge personal responsibility plays a part in every action? As much as people like to blame anyone and everyone, it doesn't negate personal responsibility from the equation. If we use your rationale then your argument about being hypocritical / killing the girl is a mute point because we aren't responsible for those actions.

Originally posted by kerazeesicko
Out come the cries of how cruel and evil she is....and then the calls for her blood....yet they never see their hypocrisy.....

You know...you cry it is wrong to kill...yet...let us kill her...

edit on 8-2-2012 by kerazeesicko because: CUZ I CAN

I think the death penalty is essentially a form of eugenics because it is wanting to eliminate the 'bad seed' to improve the lot of the whole. I'm not saying it's on the same level as genocide but in a certain way it's very much related. The whole idea of 'life not worthy of life', 'subhumans' etc.