Bill Gates Backs Climate Scientists Lobbying For Large-Scale Geoengineering

reply to post by Uncinus

Originally posted by Uncinus

That sounds like you are saying you don't need brakes on your car, because you'd rather spend the money on seat belts.

Originally posted by soficrow

Not at all. More like saying the seawalls won't stop the tsunami - better to have an early warning, and a bug out plan to higher ground. ...But even that isn't a good analogy because seawalls do not have the potential to bugger an entire planetary system.

But you are taking about relocating 7 billion people, and arranging for new food supplies, possibly over a few decades. Don't you think it's at least somewhat reasonably to look into contingency plans that don't involve inevitable gigadeath?

I wasn't talking about relocating 7 billion people - you are - my assumption is that some parts of the world will remain habitable and only part of the world's population will require relocation.

I do NOT think we need a new planet, although I do recognize that this one is highly unstable - geophysically as well as climactically. So what? We can adapt - but we need the truth. We need to know that we must adapt, and as best as possible, what changes we need to accommodate.

I think the real problem is the controllers who keep people in ignorance - at best, their goal is to avoid the periods of uncertainty that are inevitable with any kind of personal or cultural development. But every culture and generation requires truth to grow and adapt. The bulk of humanity consistently has been denied that opportunity.

reply to post by soficrow


All very pertinent points you have made, thank you for bringing sound logic
to the thread. I appreciate your wits, thanks for sharing them.

To what end these plans may go, its uncertain. Some people in the industry
have stepped forward and have tried to sound an alarm. Perhaps
they have been involved, and at this point are now convinced themselves
that there is a grave danger to the well being of humanity, and they realize
to what poliotical end this may have been used for, and see the cliffs ahead.

One more very illuminating comment was made by Matt Andersson, an aerospace veteran.
He published his comments:

The Economist.
The Co-Option of Global Warming

Comments by Matt Andersson

.www.economist.com...

Ever since the late Edward Teller co-authored the 1997 paper, “Global Warming and Ice Ages: Prospects for Physics-Based Modulation of Global Change,” the global warming industry has been on a global cooling agenda. Or at least that’s what they think.

Teller advocated for a massive application of metal particulates, among other materials, into the atmosphere to create a reflective “metallic sun screen” that results in lowered UV radiation and assumed cooling. But this metallic screen was also discovered to possess the inherent capability to act as a transmission or amplification “web” for various military directed energy weapons and for tactical weather modification, as well as a potential suspension and delivery medium for bio-warfare purposes, including depopulation. Together, these three agendas have become fused into a new self-reinforcing “iron triangle.” Every day across the US, Canada and many parts of Europe, high-altitude mission-specific tanker, civil and other aircraft are spraying hundreds of metric tons of polymerised and ionised sub-micron barium, thorium, uranium and aluminum, among other materials (including mercury and arsenic), under the ambiguity and abstraction of a benign UN public-private atmospheric and geo-engineering program directed at countering “global warming.”

Warming and "climate change" is the lead retail rationale, but it is a ruse. It can be easily rationalised and integrated into large established scientific, academic, government and industrial professional, political and social networks. It positions well into public communication and messaging, and is subsumed into humanitarian and emotional social management themes with low or relatively isolated and unorganised public resistance. Institutionalisation and abstraction is central to achieving passive cooperation. Psychological management of the program actors (like the abstraction of concentration camp “doctors” or “medicalised” experiments) uses a traditional blend of diffusion, targeted power motivation, deception and abstraction and Aesopian language and ambiguity routines, for enablers. The material suppliers are merely embedded in normalised commercial and military purchasing routines and formatting. The reality of the "Globe Warming and Climate Change" agenda is that climate is being manipulated to warm and modify parts of the globe in service to resource manipulation and extraction.

The earth may or may not be naturally warming, and industrial human activity may or may not be causal. But one thing appears rather clear: the atmospheric domain is under human institutional influence if not increasingly direct technical manipulation and control. That power is not in service to society or under open accountability: it serves special interests in the pursuit of power, profit and control. And you’re in the way.

I am fairly certain he has hit the nail on the head. He covered all of the bases.
Kudos to him for sharing.

reply to post by burntheships

Originally posted by burntheships
reply to post by soficrow

 

To what end these plans may go, its uncertain. Some people in the industry have stepped forward and have tried to sound an alarm.

I suspect the original core group is a bunch of aunties running around like chicken little because they discovered that the the Earth is - surprise, surprise - one helluva a dynamic and unstable place. People educated to expect stasis are not emotionally, psychologically or intellectually equipped to process the recognition that the planet's crust might shift, the climate change and the world-as-we-know-it go to hellinahandbasket. But that's reality.

So these guys woke up, smelled the coffee, panicked and rushed off to fix it. Of course, they needed money so they called their rich buddies, offered payoffs, sweetened the pot as best they could and the whole thing spiralled out of control. But everything started with the best of intentions: maintain the status quo. lol

The Economist.
The Co-Option of Global Warming

Comments by Matt Andersson

.www.economist.com...

....The earth may or may not be naturally warming, and industrial human activity may or may not be causal. But one thing appears rather clear: the atmospheric domain is under human institutional influence if not increasingly direct technical manipulation and control. That power is not in service to society or under open accountability: it serves special interests in the pursuit of power, profit and control. And you’re in the way.

I am fairly certain he has hit the nail on the head.

Me too.

You said earlier,

when saving the world becomes a propiertary challenge, the first one who gets the patents usually wins. In this case, it wont be for the betterment of man kind.

I agree. Wrong approach, wrong direction, wrong destination.

Originally posted by burntheships

Originally posted by Uncinus
Which is why we better research it incredibly carefully

Which is preposterous. No computer model, or for that matter clandestine
testing or small SMR test runs, even a decade over say one NATO country
could ever be equal to loosing this toxic crap on a large scale.

Preposterous.

What is preposterous is advocating ignorance - if we ever do need something like SRM we will be much better able to make a rational and correct decision (for OR against) if we know more about it.

The motto of this place is deny ignorance - not encourage it!!

reply to post by soficrow


There is a preservation society for the Grand Canyon.

A structure that was made by erosion has a preservation society, it doesn't get more narrow minded than that.

Originally posted by soficrow
I suspect the original core group is a bunch of aunties running around like chicken little because they discovered that the the Earth is - surprise, surprise - one helluva a dynamic and unstable place. People educated to expect stasis are not emotionally, psychologically or intellectually equipped to process the recognition that the planet's crust might shift, the climate change and the world-as-we-know-it go to hellinahandbasket. But that's reality.

Exactly, very nice word picture there of them, and a vivid description of the Planet, its eco system
and atmosphere. And it very well have an end in and of its own natural course, in which case
there is nothing these screaming aunties can really do, except to feel in power untill that happens.

And in the mean time....

Thanks Sofi,

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


Ah, thats where you fit in ATG. Your in the court of making public opinion,
Not I. I am a say it like it is, truth or dare. I dont attempt to make or regard public opinion.

Originally posted by soficrow
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

Okay - you may be right. But I think the key words and phrase here are, "Ensure, ..., in the absence of... global, transparent and effective control and regulatory mechanisms for geo-engineering." The phrasing acknowledges the situation without pointing fingers or making outright accusations - it's legal-speak.

What situation exactly do you think it is acknowledging??

As far as I can see it is saying that there is currently no regulation of geoengineering (or wasn't when it was agreed) and that the concept is far to important to be allowed to happen without some sort of legal framework - which may involve allowing it or may involve not allowing it or a mix of the 2 depending on all sorts of possibilities.

Is that how you see it?

Other posters on here have told us that examining the possibility of a legal framework covering geo-engineering "proves" that it exists - which is illogical - it is entirely possible to advocate having some sort of regulation covering something that you think might exist at some time in the future.

Originally posted by burntheships
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

Ah, thats where you fit in ATG. Your in the court of making public opinion,

Feel free to translate that into something that makes sense.

Not I. I am a say it like it is, truth or dare. I dont attempt to make or regard public opinion.

So it is OK for you to spread ignorance as long as you don't think it is "in the court of public opinion"??

If you don't want the public to read your attempt to promote ignorance (which may or may not be what you are saying - it's difficult to figure out) then why write it on a public forum??

Originally posted by burntheships
reply to post by soficrow

 

One more very illuminating comment was made by Matt Andersson, an aerospace veteran.
He published his comments:

He wrote letters to the editor - let us not exaggerate his efforts!

The Economist.
The Co-Option of Global Warming

Comments by Matt Andersson

.www.economist.com...

Teller advocated for a massive application of metal particulates, among other materials, into the atmosphere to create a reflective “metallic sun screen” that results in lowered UV radiation and assumed cooling. But this metallic screen was also discovered to possess the inherent capability to act as a transmission or amplification “web” for various military directed energy weapons and for tactical weather modification, as well as a potential suspension and delivery medium for bio-warfare purposes, including depopulation. Together, these three agendas have become fused into a new self-reinforcing “iron triangle.” Every day across the US, Canada and many parts of Europe, high-altitude mission-specific tanker, civil and other aircraft are spraying hundreds of metric tons of polymerised and ionised sub-micron barium, thorium, uranium and aluminum, among other materials (including mercury and arsenic), under the ambiguity and abstraction of a benign UN public-private atmospheric and geo-engineering program directed at countering “global warming.”

So where is this fleet of tanker aircraft again? Where are the actual air samples showing anything is being sprayed?

Where is any corroborating evidence at all??

Why is it you believe this guy saying something for which he refuses to provide any backup for, and for which all the actual evidence on the matter tells us is bravo-sierra?

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


I think I am in very good company, thank you.

"Human beings, all over the earth, have this curious idea that they ought to
behave in a certain way, and can not really get rid of it."

C.S. Lewis.
Thoughts on Mans Conscience

cslewis.wikispaces.com...

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

So where is this fleet of tanker aircraft again? Where are the actual air samples showing anything is being sprayed? Where is any corroborating evidence at all?

Good luck on getting that info. I have asked the exact same question in another thread,and yes I am still waiting on that answer.

Btw your thread on the cover art should get you some interesting replies cant wait to see those.

reply to post by tsurfer2000h


Oh I'm cerainly not actually expecting to get any info - but one has to remind people that this SHOULD be about evidenc - even if they dont' have any.

I'm not looking for any kind of answers on the art thing - that's just for info!

reply to post by AGWskeptic

Originally posted by AGWskeptic
reply to post by soficrow

 

There is a preservation society for the Grand Canyon.

A structure that was made by erosion has a preservation society, it doesn't get more narrow minded than that.

lol. Not sure narrow minded is the right descritpion, but it sure is funny.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


Seems clear the implication is that geo-engineering occurs locally (not globally, and without a global perspective); geo-engineering activities are not open or transparent; and there are no effective controls or regulatory mechanisms.

reply to post by tsurfer2000h


Coming from a a member that posts
Hoaxes...totally unsubstaniated... I really dont know what else to say. Thats like the pot calling the kettle black...and worse.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

Where are the actual air samples showing anything is being sprayed?

Where is any corroborating evidence at all?

You just posted a thread about it today.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by MathiasAndrew


Exactly - some guy says he has all this evidence, but won't produce it for examination - where is it??

And also exactly - you think that some guy not providing the evidence he says he has constitutes verifiable evidence......

Here's an interesting list of chemicals used by the US military.

What the exact purpose and usage of these chemicals is, I do not know.

Check it out..... key items aluminum, barium, strontium

www.hummelcroton.com...

For more info on each chemical listed try this list

www.hummelcroton.com...

Material safety data sheet

www.hummelcroton.com...

Originally posted by soficrow
reply to post by AGWskeptic

 

Originally posted by AGWskeptic
reply to post by soficrow

 

There is a preservation society for the Grand Canyon.

A structure that was made by erosion has a preservation society, it doesn't get more narrow minded than that.

lol. Not sure narrow minded is the right descritpion, but it sure is funny.

I think the Grand Canyon has been around for over 1.6 billion years!

We need to preserve it?