ExoMars cooperation between Nasa and Esa near collapse

ExoMars cooperation between Nasa and Esa near collapse

www.bbc.co.uk

The American space agency looks set to pull the plug on its joint missions to Mars with the European Space Agency.

Nasa has told Esa it is now highly unlikely it will be able to contribute to the endeavours, which envision an orbiting satellite and a big roving robot being sent to the Red Planet.

The US has yet to make a formal statement on the matter but budget woes are thought to lie behind its decision.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Just what I thought was going to happen. NASA cannot afford to go in with ESA because the funding, and lack there of. It seems that President Obama cut the funding to NASA making it basically uselss now.

Europe is now banking on a Russian partnership to keep the missions alive.

A public announcement by Nasa of its withdrawal from the ExoMars programme, as it is known in Europe, will probably come once President Obama's 2013 Federal Budget Request is submitted.

IMO it seems all NASA is good for now is to stare through telescopes at objects in sapce we will never get to and now, with no funding, we won't even be able to reach our closest planet to us. Sad..

www.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

we will never leave this planet untell we can learn to live on it peacefully.

reply to post by omegacorps


True, and not only peacefully but in unisin otherwise we will be on this rock until the end of time...

I wouldn't hold your breath.

-SAP-

Originally posted by SloAnPainful
Just what I thought was going to happen. NASA cannot afford to go in with ESA because the funding, and lack there of. It seems that President Obama cut the funding to NASA making it basically uselss now.

Europe is now banking on a Russian partnership to keep the missions alive.

A public announcement by Nasa of its withdrawal from the ExoMars programme, as it is known in Europe, will probably come once President Obama's 2013 Federal Budget Request is submitted.

IMO it seems all NASA is good for now is to stare through telescopes at objects in sapce we will never get to and now, with no funding, we won't even be able to reach our closest planet to us. Sad..

www.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

edit on 6-2-2012 by SloAnPainful because: (no reason given)

Any president is damned if they commit funding in tough times, and damned if they don't. I'm sure if he had increased funding the republicans would have had a field day.

reply to post by something wicked


I agree, and most people think of NASA as a waste of money because it isn't getting anything done. Fact of the matter is IF we give up on the space program we will never get anywhere else. Also it is kind of sad considering we (U.S) have always been number one in the space race...

If everyone could come together and start one agency just for space and disban all the others, not only would funding be affordable it would make it a lot eaiser to partner up and get these matters resolved. Just my thoughts.

-SAP-

reply to post by SloAnPainful


Like an International Space Agency of some sort? Do you have any idea how utterly unworkable that is? You make a list of nations that have had a slice, no matter how small , of the space race pie, and you will see that those nations, or entities have almost always had branches whose sole purpose was the destruction of the other nations on the list. Note Russia. I would say that both Russia and the USA have the most military hardware and obs gear in space right now. Probably quite a sum of Chinese stuff two, but China by comparison were not in the race at the beginning.

What makes you think that Russia and the US would be able to be a part of such an international who's who of astronomy and space exploration? They cannot even see eye to eye on how to deal with mass murdering despots (Syrian President) let alone the future of mankind! How the hell would any organisation containing both of these, ever get anything done without comming a foul of one nations national secrets act?
More to the point, if those two nations had to be expelled from the agency, would that not leave the rest of the world without the two best performing space travelling nations to gain understanding and information from?

reply to post by TrueBrit


Fair point, but I would make it a politics free agency. Strictly scientists and Space eggheads only. Each country would only be required to fund it only or better still how about a UN Space Agency, then it would be UN funded

Originally posted by something wicked
Any president is damned if they commit funding in tough times, and damned if they don't. I'm sure if he had increased funding the republicans would have had a field day.

Yeah but they can approve more funding for that "war on terror"

Maybe if NASA would stop spending MILLIONS on funding a Religious Institution like Wheeling Jesuit University they might have better luck keeping their commitments to ESA and our own space program

Funny how the National Technology Transfer Center, the agency responsible for deciding which companies get the spin off tech from NASA is also at Wheeling Jesuit University
©2011 National Technology Transfer Center, Wheeling Jesuit University

The grant is one of nine proposals NASA is funding for a total of $11.5 million over two years, the space agency announced this week.

www.wju.edu...

That is merely ONE grant... there are many. Just search NASA funds millions at WJU in fact here is a Link to the Search

This should make every American tax payer and every NASA hugger out there FLAMING MAD, but by the lack of response to this thread I see ATS is no longer the forefront of such issues

Maybe no one cares... even when the Office of Inspector General (OIG) found them guilty of wrong doing with those funds. Seems the Inspector General at least noticed...

The Office of Inspector General (OIG) conducted a review of NASAs oversight of grants and cooperative agreements with Wheeling Jesuit University (WJU) in West Virginia. Our objectives were to determine whether NASA adequately reviewed WJU’s cost proposals for grants and cooperative agreements and to determine whether the cost proposals complied with NASA and Federal policy regulations. We reviewed five grants and cooperative agreements (both called agreements in this memo) between WJU and NASA that were active or not closed1 as of October 8, 2008. (See Enclosure 1 for details for our scope and methodology.)

PDF - Final Memorandum on Review of Wheeling Jesuit University Cost Proposals (Report No. IG-09-020-Redacted; Assignment No. S-09-002-00)

We found that NASA inappropriately approved, obligated, and partially expended more than $4 million of facility and administrative (F&A) costs because NASA grant officers in charge of the WJU agreements did not adequately review WJUs cost proposals. Specifically, the grant officers failed to note that WJU had included F&A costs as direct costs in its cost proposals to NASA. During our interviews with NASA grant officers assigned to review the WJU agreements, they stated that they were not sufficiently familiar with the definitions and allocation of direct and F&A costs to adequately exercise due diligence to ensure proposal costs were allowable, allocable, and reasonable under the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) Circular A-21, “Cost Principles for Educational Institutions” (Revised August 8, 2000) (Circular A-21).

A Government agency... supposedly publicly funded (yeah right) sending funding of millions of dollars to a Religious Institution then screaming they are strapped for cash? And they are still operating WHY?

NASA = Need Another Space Agency

Or as Robert Bigelow put it when NASA told him NO to launching his private space station...

Robert Bigelow went to NASA to have them launch his Genesis Modules... for his "Hotel in Space" private inflatable space station...

NASA told him NO... and when he went to Russia... NASA was pissed at him. His solution? Buy a partnership in a RUSSIAN unused space launch site along with a leading defense contractor. More American money going to help Russia's space program.

Robert says... NASA = No Access to Space for Americans

Q: Why do you think NASA has been reluctant to allow tourists in space, like Dennis Tito, for example?

Robert: "Well, it’s the mentality that “we own space.” NASA stands for “No Access to Space for Americans” — that’s what it stands for to me and to most Americans. NASA has exclusive control and a lock on everything having to do with space, except for the Russian side. And they were just beyond belief in being rude and obnoxious [in response to Dennis Tito's trip]. It was just embarrassing to this country."

My own private space station
Robert Bigelow has his funding priorities straight: Orbiting cruise ships and paranormal research.

Time to shut NASA down and let the Private companies and the Military get the job done right

NASA Airplane Safety Report Stalled

More wasted money and coverup by NASA

NASA spent at least $8.5 million to design and conduct the survey.

NASA surveyed some 24,000 commercial and general aviation pilots over nearly four years, but the data, collected through early 2005, have never been released. Just six days ago, those affiliated with the project got an e-mail, asking them to turn over any data to NASA and delete survey information from their personal computers.

The Associated Press said it had been trying, unsuccessfully, to get the data released through a Freedom of Information Act request. Just how sensitive the information is seems clear in a document from NASA denying that FOIA request. NASA said "release of the data ... could materially affect the public confidence in, and the commercial welfare of, the air carriers."

Members of Congress have now demanded that the data be preserved and presented to lawmakers.

In a statement, NASA administrator Michael Griffin said, "As a general practice, I believe that NASA research and data should be widely available." The administrator has now taken steps to make sure the safety survey data is preserved and the agency is looking into whether it can release it.

abcnews.go.com...

So where exactly is that data now that NASA spent 8.5 million collecting and took an act of Congress to release? And just why doesn't NASA keep its business in Space?

Makes one go Hmmmmm

reply to post by zorgon


Wow. I don't know where to start.

First, what branch of the military do you want running the space program? Have you ever heard of a little thing called the MOL? It's a rather fascinating story of Air Force cost overruns, misapplied technology, and an obsolete operating model. Military projects are cash cows rarely under the observation of the public.

I personally do not want to see a civilian agency that has done so much for science and discovery turned into another way to kill innocent children in the Middle East and spread the disease of "yes sir no sir" compliance.

As for giving grant money to the Jesuits, NASA shouldn't prevent universities from doing valuable research based on the religious or nonreligious nature of the institution. Most likely NASA felt that the institution was worthy of the money.

Also, it sounds to me like the University was the one in the wrong, not NASA.

blithespirit.wordpress.com...

reply to post by zorgon


NASA lost $8 million? Damn. Makes the TRILLIONS the Military/Industrial Complex stole during the free-for-all Iraq and Afganistan wars look like chump change. NASA can barely afford to maintain radio observation of existing probes-but the Air Farce can get billions for new stealth bombers it doesn't need.

Any thoughts on having a UN funded Space Agency?

reply to post by Wirral Bagpuss


I wouldn't mind having a UN funded space program if it is anything like how they operate on forign policy I don't think much would get done.

It would be a good way to keep the funding regulated to everyone in the UN except just a select few countries..not a bad idea but not the best either IMO.

-SAP-

reply to post by Wirral Bagpuss


First and foremost in terms of the issue a UN run space agency would bring up is the following. The UN show themselves up more often than not, as being a fractious, divided, and ultimately impotent group of diplomats without any real capacity to change things at speed. All it takes is a veto here, or a powerful nation complaining or abstaining from a vote, to utterly ruin ANYTHING they do, particularly on the security council front. Evidence, one might be forgiven for thinking, that trusting them with the responsibility of getting mankind to penetrate deeper into the domain of the heavens is like asking a schizophrenic kleptomaniac to mind your gold bullion.

And as for the suggestion that one could perhaps construct a non political organisation to handle the worlds space faring dreams and aspirations, I have to say that the idea is wonderful. However, as you well know where there be money, there are power mongers, or at the very least, thier representatives. There is absolutely no way, that an organisation with the financial power to fund a space program, and access to scientists all over the world from myriad disciplines, is going to be free of the influence of a dozen or more intelligence agencies from various locations. Nothing that large or powerful has , does, or ever will exist without that input or interferance.

Originally posted by NuminousCosmos
First, what branch of the military do you want running the space program?

The NAVY

NAVY Space Command Uncovered
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Have you ever heard of a little thing called the MOL?

Yes the first Secret Astronaut Corps. Did a thread on that and PBS scooped me with Astrospies. See the whole truth of the project

www.pbs.org...

Military projects are cash cows rarely under the observation of the public.

Who care about money? fed Reserve can't account for 9 TRILLION in 2009 alone, 2001, 2.3 TRILLION missing from the Pentagon, announced the day BEFORE 9/11 No one cares... and the public doesn't need to know
That is why we have NASA to do the pretty pictures for publicity

I personally do not want to see a civilian agency that has done so much for science and discovery turned into another way to kill innocent children in the Middle East and spread the disease of "yes sir no sir" compliance.

to late NASA is already officially under the DoD and Werner von Braun resigned over NASA's involvement with arming space (then died shortly after)

Most likely NASA felt that the institution was worthy of the money.

The Inspector General disagrees with you.The Jesuits... in control of NASA splinter technology? Really? Tax payer funding going to the Jesuits and you have no problem with that? Hmmm very odd

Originally posted by NuminousCosmos
NASA lost $8 million? Damn. Makes the TRILLIONS the Military/Industrial Complex stole during the free-for-all Iraq and Afganistan wars look like chump change. NASA can barely afford to maintain radio observation of existing probes-but the Air Farce can get billions for new stealth bombers it doesn't need.

Well see? That's what I mean no one cares about all the trillions. Besides there are not enough taxpayers in the USA to account for all that money.

Maybe NASA should smarten up and take tourists up for 20 million a pop... or allow advertising on the space ships... Why not? that way they might get some real money

O they could get into drug smuggling, the way certain spook agencies fund themselves

Face it NASA is washed up... as long as they are depending on Washington to fund them they are finished.

I think I will put my money int Bigelow Aerospace and Virgin Galactic stocks Now THOSE two have vision