Crazy Sufi Wisdom: The Moon Is More Valuable Than The Sun

Icarus who escaped his labyrinth prison of his own making, and in doing so became so enamoured of his freedom that he flew straight towards the Sun. In doing so, he melted his invention of wings and killed himself.

Another version of the escape from the cave.

Socrates:

"He will require to grow accustomed to the sight of the upper world. And first he will see the shadows best, next the reflections of men and other objects in the water, and then the objects themselves; then he will gaze upon the light of the moon and the stars and the spangled heaven; and he will see the sky and the stars by night better than the sun or the light of the sun by day?"

"Last of all he will be able to see the sun, and not mere reflections of him in the water, but he will see him in his own proper place, and not in another; and he will contemplate him as he is."

to me the whole allegory of the cave is speaking of truth.. true perception... how a human mind can perceive itself in this reality..... if it grows up in a community, and is raised to a culture, and programmed in that manner that is so common, what will it truly know of itself in relationship to its actual existence as an individual being taking up a finite time and space in this strange eternal realm.

the process of questioning ones beliefs, ones culture, ones reality, to build ones knowledge and wisdom, and understanding of truth,,,. is the leaving of the primitive cave,,, into the true light of the sun,, after first questioning your beliefs and self,,, it will be easier to start slow,,, and so ... it will not be an effective enlightenment if you are just poured miles and miles of blinding information of the sometimes scary, sometimes hurtful truth... so to take this process in increments, one would be more comfortable taking in a moons amount of light,..,

like mankind itself, gradually climbing out of its naturally given ignorance.,





there is no tradition of 5 lifetimes... it was metaphor for how being alive for one life is not long enough to sate your desiree of admiration and understanding of the moon... like to fully express your love of it,,, which you seem like you love the moon,,, you could spend eternities on this earth under its light and it would never get old... is what i was trying to express....




Presently just everything that I have mentioned about the possibility that it makes the Sun more accessible. And what you said.

With out the sun first, life could not exist, you would not have come about to be able to perceive the moon in the first place... is your measurement of value purely subjective? why do you wish to denounce the sun so?
it does not make the sun more accessible, have you ever laid on a beach? it does mirror the suns light to provide some light during night...




i know i am not explaining this to the best of my ability, but question what i wrote, and i can embellish, and we can see what we can see..

reply to post by ImaFungi

it does not make the sun more accessible, have you ever laid on a beach? it does mirror the suns light to provide some light during night...

ImaFungi,

I am sorry that I will not be able to devote too much time to your kind offering of questions. Be sure that I will be back as soon as I am able.

Yes, that is the idea, that, in the philosophically allegorical sense, the Light of The Sun (Plato's source of Goodness) is more manageable, at first to one just out of The Cave, by seeing its reflection in the Mirror of The Heart, which is likened to The Moon.

So, the idea is, that when one is experiencing, or has only ever experienced, a Spiritual Darkness, that in that Night one may see by the Light of The Moon the reflected Light of The Sun, which again, is analogous philosophically, to the source of Plato's Goodness.

So as to say,

if we were to lie on the Beach, hoping to become enriched somehow by The Light, we would definitely want to grab some Sunscreen.



X.

The one thing you never find in stories about the moon, is that it is ever a destination. No one wants to go to the Moon, just be happy to look at it when it comes out and contemplate the sky, the darkness, the inner world.

You have to admire the tenacity of those who want to do more, if only you could get them to stop scorching themselves.

good Nasruddin Story

reply to post by Xoanon


Good story, kept thinking about Schrodinger's cat. Funny how in the 14th century we have these wonderful storys and now we have Quantum physics

A soul moon
appeared in the path of my heart.
How precious is this journey.

I said, O Love
what kind of moon is this?
Love said to me,
this is not for you to question.
be silent.

I said, O Love
what kind of face is this,
angelic, or human?
Love said to me,
this is beyond anything that you know.
Be silent.

I said, please reveal this to me
I am dying in anticipation.
Love said to me,
that is where I want you:
Always on the edge,
be silent.
You dwell in this hall of
images and illusions,
leave this house now
and be silent.

I said, O Love,
tell me this:
Does the Lord know you are
treating me this way?
Love said to me,
yes He does,
just be totally…
totally… silent

-Rumi

eYe talked with a friend about this thread and thoUght eYe'd share what eYe said, since IT goes hand-in-hand with the subject of this thread:

"The Tales of Mullah Nasruddin are some of the most famous of these tales. They are beloved worldwide and are known for their ridiculously silly humour."

Imagine that?

eYe get beat up all the Time for my humor butt most don't realize there's humor within my werds.

"So, we have that established. Running out of the cave and staring directly at The Source of The Light of Truth is not a great idea. In fact it is a dangerous proposition to leave the cave at all."

kNot If U leave the cave at night, when the Moon is Full!

It's said: "They called it the Dark Ages, kNot because it was dark, butt because We refused 2 C the Light."

We still live in the Dark Ages, in the Cave, butt if U know when the Moon is going 2 be Full, U can escape the Cave 4 good.

As 4 me personally, everyTime eYe see the Moon, eYe say: "Hi m0m!"

Ribbit

reply to post by Xoanon


GREAT thread!
can't really add much
but would like to thank you for reacquainting me with The Marvelous Mullah
these tales are like humorous zen koans and it seems there are more stories out to boot!

www.otoons.de...&game/mulla_nasrudin.htm
www.nasruddin.org...

my 1st Nasrudin story:

Nasrudin on Self-Knowledge

Nasrudin went into a bank to cash a check. The teller asked him if he could identify himself. “Yes, I can,” Nasrudin replied, taking out a mirror with which he scrutinized his features, “that’s me all right.”

from Stephen LaBerge’s Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming
[ originally from Idries Shah of course]

In your light I learn how to love.

In your beauty, how to make poems.

You dance inside my chest where no one sees you,

but sometimes I do, and that sight becomes this art.

-Rumi

Originally posted by Xoanon

That is absolutely gorgeous!

The Moon calling out 2 his Love, the Earth, and the tidal movement caused by the Moon's attraction to his Love, creates the heart-shaped waves, a message 2 his Love.

Pee On!

Ribbit

eYe have a hyperthetical question:

Let's say We beings here on Earth come from Inverted Thought of the Collective Consciousness of the Universe/Source/God. If there IS a message in Light 4 We 2 find, as beings of IT, would We be able 2 decipher the message directly from Source or would We have 2 decipher IT from REFLECTED Light, thus, Inverted Light, like the Inverted Light being reflected from the Moon, 4 an example?

AnyOne up 4 taking that question on?

R there any Moon Children on ATS?

Ribbit

reply to post by ButtUglyToad


'would We have 2 decipher IT from REFLECTED Light, thus, Inverted Light,
like the Inverted Light being reflected from the Moon, 4 an example?'

a much more comfortable and pleasing way for understanding compared
to the overwhelming glare of the direct.
1999 mid winter full moon solstice enabled observations of rocks
glowing in a stone circle.
my welders helmet assists in the correct flow of weld to its
destination by filtering the light emitted. without it the
information is limited/overwhelming and bad for the eyes producing an
unacceptable outcome.
full moon tonight toady, best bib and tucker!

f

reply to post by Xoanon


Never heard of the sufis, or of this Nasreddin charter.

Plato and his cave is...meh. Some people should of never left there cave to begin with.

Mirrors are cool and all but not all that there cracked up to be, especially mirrors into your soul.

I mean who wants to see there soul anyways, it all sounds so icky.
Kind of like seeing peoples guts or all the inner working of anything, outer shells are there for a reason I have heard people say. And If the soul like the inner parts of human anatomy or anythings else's anatomy was meant to be seen, then it would all be on the surface, and not reflected by things or others.

Though I have been wrong before and could be wrong in this, we will see I guess.

And by the way just so you know, the soul has never been proven. It's like a theory or something. Or it's like a ghost, or a shadow of a ghost.

There is however one thing I can surely say that I have heard of, and it just might have been proven.

And that thing is the Moon, I am pretty sure I even seen it yesterday. Which leads me to conclude that the moon exists. And as such I would even go so far to as say that there is a 90% chance that the moon does indeed exist.

I can describe my relation with the moon in one word.

And that word is... BOOM!

Originally posted by fakedirt
reply to post by ButtUglyToad

 

full moon tonight toady, best bib and tucker!

Wouldn't U know IT, it's overcast and rainy here until 2morrow. eYe was sew looking 4ward 2 the full moon 2night but rarely dew my plans ever werk out.

eYe will just have 2 wait 2 catch IT going in2 a full moon the night of my b-day next month.

Ribbit

reply to post by ButtUglyToad


i caught a glimpse myself after a full day of clear skies, the clouds
rolled in. the brief reveal warmed the spirit against the ice cold
southerly.
i'll transmit a dervishing whirl for you on the eighth toady. disco
box says kwaja mere kwaja.
f

Originally posted by fakedirt
reply to post by ButtUglyToad

 

i caught a glimpse myself after a full day of clear skies, the clouds
rolled in. the brief reveal warmed the spirit against the ice cold
southerly.
i'll transmit a dervishing whirl for you on the eighth toady. disco
box says kwaja mere kwaja.
f

7th

Night of the 7th is going in2 the full moon, 4 IT 2 finish on the morning of the 8th.

Ribbit

Ps: Clouds dispersed last night and eYe got to lay there looking up @ m0m and She was beautiful!

reply to post by ButtUglyToad


1st line
indeed just checking!
f

In Astrology there is an important point in one's chart to watch. It's called the Sun/Moon midpoint. 4 of the most significant people in my life have had their Suns conjunct both sides of this point, including my daughter, my first love, my first husband and a very "karmically painful" connection I had recently that began in college. It is said that we attract these people in order to find balance in ourselves through the mirror of another. Not unlike shadows cast upon a wall, and the enlightenment that occurs once you realize you are the source of that light.

SOME KISS WE WANT

There is some kiss we want with our whole lives,

the touch of spirit on the body.

Seawater begs the pearl to break its shell.

And the lily, how passionately it needs some wild darling!

At night, I open the window and ask the moon to come and press its face against mine.

Breathe into me.

Close the language-door and open the love-window.

The moon won’t use the door, only the window.

Mewlana Jalaluddin Rumi. Translated by Coleman Barks

4 anyone that is experiencing ringing of the ears, have U noticed a difference between day and night? Louder ringing @ night, verses during the daytime? Even louder when the moon is out or If U R out in the sunlight?

If U r experiencing ringing of the ears, pay attention 2 when it's louder and please post U'r findings. eYe'm curious If there's a connection?

Ribbit