What's more important to human exploration of the star system, Mars or Jupiter?

Jupiter is a large planet, and it could be a fairly easy target for the reasons we would want to go there.

I think any mission to Mars should fall under a greater plan to get tools on Jupiter to begin exploitation of Jupiter, as we develop Mars.

If we would be able to place a network of satellites orbiting Mars' moons in those satellites there could be the provisions needed to assemble a sort of Pit Stop on the race to get the tools to Jupiter. Phobos and Deimos could be a sort of pair of workhorses that carry with them the materials not only to refuel and repair a ship heading to Jupiter, but they could also be counted on to provide synchronized satellite designation of motive power.

Phobos and Deimos could have a pair of satellite networks who manipulate magnetic fields into 'pinching' a spaceship to accelerate towards Jupiter. I know it sounds far fetched but I'm not here for a technical analysis of the satellites, I want some discussion about whether or not Mars Missions should be a part of a coherent plan to begin exploiting the resources of Jupiter.

I am unsure if there is a 'window' of a possibility in using Phobos and Deimos as a gravitational slingshot to Jupiter, however even if that Possibility doesn't exist anytime soon maybe a series of smaller and shorter windows exist for the planets outside Jupiter Orbit; I know for certain Mars' two moons could help slingshot a vehicle to the Asteroid Belt and the mathematics to aim them at any specific asteroid in the belt are out of my reach currently.

But we Earthlings have one moon, we can mobilize Equipment to build the Phobos-Deimos Satellite Networks at Lagrange Points between Luna and Earth, then send them to be autonomously set up the framework for the networks ahead of time, then send the pieces of those satellites to the orbit of Mars' moons.

The Mars Moons can make it easier to get to Saturns Moons, or Uranus. Don't make me stick your head up the clouds of Uranus, not just yet. Dream of using todays technologies, off-the-shelf components, to get the Phobos and Deimos 'Squeeze Sats' up and running.

Then we can discuss why we want to be exploiting Jupiter and Mars, rather than only Mars or only Jupiter.

I like your idea

S + F

Edit: we'd want both planets because we're humans.. we want bigger and better of everything

Originally posted by Indenu
I like your idea

S + F

Edit: we'd want both planets because we're humans.. we want bigger and better of everything

edit on 4-2-2012 by Indenu because: (no reason given)

Thanks, but tell me some more of what you'd like to see in how Humanity spreads to the outer rim of our solar system?

I kinda of want to see what others think we should do on the long term, to better focus my mind on how we get there.

Is'nt Jupiter a gas giant? wouldn't you just fall into the centre and be crushed to death by gravity?? Kind of hard to explore in the traditional sense.

I would say Saturn's moons are the most important, next to mars, ATM. Maybe even more important.

Heres an amazing, inspirational, informative lecture on Saturn's moon Enceladus:

www.ted.com...

Hers one on seeding life on Mars:

www.ted.com...

And here's one on whether or not space exploration is a waste of money, better spent on earthly issues in this day and age:

www.ted.com...

Love me some TEDtalks

As much as I love the Red planet, I think that the Jupiter system holds more interesting avenues for exploration. I'm itching to see a surface penetration on Europa...I want to know within my lifetime, if this ice world harbors life.

I think a permanent synchronous orbiter around Jupiter- monitoring storm systems and once-in-a-while asteroid/cometary impacts would also be wildly entertaining and, of course, informative. Imagine real time (within speed of light constraints) video of those amazing cloudscapes!

Our near-term goal is to establish viable self sustaining colonys on mars
First step. After that, then we can start considering other planets...but the first step will be mars
Actually, not really..the first step will be the moon, then space stations, then mars.

But the long term goal is to have the entire solar system under some sort of control...then we can start eyeing very long term goals (other solar systems.) once we have perfected terraforming and biosphere equilibrium.

reply to post by NuminousCosmos


I am under the impression that wherever life can exist, does exist.
In saying that, I am not sure why mars isn't..well..moldy at least. We really need to send people to mars to do some proper surveillance. Or seriously improve our robots.

reply to post by Sachyriel


I assume you are talking about crewed, as opposed to robotic, missions. Crewed missions to Jupiter would be exponentially more difficult than missions to Mars. Not only would the transit times be longer, but it's unclear whether humans could even survive in Jupiter's magnetic field!

Jupiter is a gas giant and while it has a solid core the force of its gravity would crush a human

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Our near-term goal is to establish viable self sustaining colonys on mars
First step. After that, then we can start considering other planets...but the first step will be mars
Actually, not really..the first step will be the moon, then space stations, then mars.

But the long term goal is to have the entire solar system under some sort of control...then we can start eyeing very long term goals (other solar systems.) once we have perfected terraforming and biosphere equilibrium.

Thats the way to do it. On the way to doing it we will need to develop decent methods of propulsion rather than chemical rockets. This allows us a chance of deflecting asteroids threatening the earth.

The options are

a) control the solar system
b) become extinct.

I vote for A.

Originally posted by justwokeup

Thats the way to do it. On the way to doing it we will need to develop decent methods of propulsion rather than chemical rockets. This allows us a chance of deflecting asteroids threatening the earth.

The options are

a) control the solar system
b) become extinct.

I vote for A.

Agreed.
Now just got to wait for the "but humans have bad habits, so we should just die" emo group to weigh in.

mostly because I enjoy laughing at them.

If you try to follow liquid water then Mars is important short term. Finding liquid water on mars and testing it thoroughly for life should be one of the most important goals for space exploration. I think our rovers have been doing a fair job of prepping us for that. This would provide a fascinating hint at how rare life is in the Universe while at the same time giving us experience towards examining Europa.

"The best explanation for these observations so far is the flow of briny water," said Alfred McEwen of the University of Arizona, Tucson. McEwen is the principal investigator for the orbiter's High Resolution Imaging Science Experiment (HiRISE)

"These dark lineations are different from other types of features on Martian slopes," said Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter Project Scientist Richard Zurek of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif. "Repeated observations show they extend ever farther downhill with time during the warm season."

The features imaged are only about 0.5 to 5 yards or meters wide, with lengths up to hundreds of yards. The width is much narrower than previously reported gullies on Martian slopes. However, some of those locations display more than 1,000 individual flows. Also, while gullies are abundant on cold, pole-facing slopes, these dark flows are on warmer, equator-facing slopes.

source
Having something testing any residue associated with gullies similar to these on Mars might be a nice place to start.

reply to post by SaturnFX


I totally agree with your outline. Colonize the solar system then move on to the stars!

I have a button I got from OMNI magazine when I was a kid, I wear it all the time:

The meek shall inherit the earth; the rest of us will go to the stars.

A confusing OP, let me help. Just watch the first minute.

Phobos and Deimos are basically useless for any kind of gravity assist in flight.

Once we understand the point of this thread then we can discuss what your fascination with the Martian moons is, and what if any value they hold, because what you outlined so far is inapplicable.

why we can't have manned missions to jupiter

it created a fireball about 190 million sq km (73 million sq mi), which is a larger area than the Pacific Ocean.

reply to post by Illustronic


Juno mission has a great logo. Excellent page layout too...I wish all NASA probes had such engaging content.

reply to post by NuminousCosmos


Well to be fair, it is a 'big' mission. Maybe Cassini doesn't have a flashy website, but so far the 'Cassini–Huygens' mission sure does have flashy content!

As (swri.edu) would imply, it is not a NASA site, maybe SouthWest Research Institute?

(I love that intro), if you leave that site on in the background while you browse other web content, the ambient 'music' track begins to become quite ominous, trippy, and you can hear synthesized voices. When I used to paint in the evenings, I would turn on NPR's Echoes 2-hour program from 10 to midnight, great unobtrusive background ambient 'new age' music that people like Brian Eno are into today.

I'm sure Sagan would be proud.

reply to post by Illustronic


Third parties do tend to produce better sites...for the opposite effect, check out the Dawn Mission page. Boring.

I do pen and ink work, as well as architectural renderings. When I work I like to listen to ambient stuff too...check out Brian Eno's soundtrack to "For All Mankind." It's trippy and spooky. Also, check out Wendy Carlos' stuff. Odd person, but amazing body of electronic music.

reply to post by NuminousCosmos


Yeah I love the stuff, the guy who hired me 24 years ago also came up 'through the ranks' he gave me a catalog of the content played on Echoes.

When I lived in this huge old farm house, I wanted to line the tall wall/ceiling corners with low neon lights, and continuously pipe ambient music throughout the halls. I never got that far along. I did however half finish the 5-color speckle tone paint job in the halls, everything the same coat, walls, ceiling, doors, podium and statue, window frames, table and chairs even the phone and phonebook box, and a painting and frame on the wall, (inspired by that interior decorator in the movie Betelgeuse. Yes, trippy.

It's harder than you think to dial a rotary phone once the numbers are painted over. lol (I still have the phone).

My last comment on this tangent I started, Brian Eno also produced the startup music for Microsoft Windows 95.

reply to post by SaturnFX


I think you hit the nail on the head as to why your impressions are wrong. If life does exist everywhere it can exist I would expect a lot more life on Mars. Therefore my impression is life does not exist every place it can exist. As of now my belief is it exists only on Earth, until there is actual evidence to the contrary.