Conspiracy theories in general

Originally posted by billybob


transporters implanted in their butts. i thought everyone knew that.

See, NWO implants aren't all bad

heres a thread with some good links in it about the

Psychology of a Conspiracy Theorist

Thanks Creepy, I forgot about that thread. It was interesting to see just how quickly and viciously the article in your first post was attacked.

I was interested in conspiracy theories for many years, but didn't actually believe that a real conspiracy could take place until the following happened to me:

I went the the doctor a year ago for heart palpitations & was given an anti-depressant. The drug gave me really horrible side-effects in a short amount of time. I reported this immediately to the doctor, who didn't take it seriously & said that the drug was very safe & these side-effects simply don't happen. I read the info packet that came with the drug & also visited many web sites like Web MD to get some more perspective. The side-effects were never mentioned. As I got worse, I began to think that maybe I had Parkinsons or a brain tumor--I was terrified. Over the next months I was taken off the drug, put on others, and my health steadily declined to the point where I could not work. I saw a number of doctors & psychiatrists and they all told me the same thing: it couldn't possibly be the drugs that were causing these severe neurological problems, I was most likely a hypochondriac. Finally I sought help from two sources--medical abstracts & online support groups. I read the medical abstracts on the potential side-effects of these medications with help from my mother, who is a biologist--they confirmed my side-effects. I read thousands of posts from people who have suffered side-effects from these drugs--they not only confirmed my experiences, but reported identical reactions of disbelief from their doctors. When I went back to my doctor to tell her about the results of my research, she told me simply to "not read those things anymore." Then I read a couple of exposes of the pharmaceutical companies & how this trillion-dollar industry bribes doctors (in the form of gifts, trips, etc.) all across America--as well as the FDA.

Through this multi-pronged investigation I came to the conclusion that vital health information about the safety of these drugs were being suppressed by the FDA, the drug companies, & doctors all for the sake of $$$$. It makes sense: if the potential life-threatening side-effects of these drugs were clearly posted on the containers, & doctors had to make their patients aware of them, they would be more likely to not buy the drugs, and $$$$ would go down. There is an article in AOL health news about exactly this happening, now with the new labelling laws for anti-depressants.

I believe that this is a conspiracy of sorts--the suppression of vital health information as the result of greed. I do not think it is a conscious conspiracy on behalf of the doctors, but I do think the pharmaceutical industry knows exactly what it's doing. It's not a "romantic" conspiracy like the JFK theory or all-encompassing like the NWO theory, but it's a conspiracy nonetheless.

But just the fact that I use the word "conspiracy" makes it immediately sound suspect. So what if instead of conspiracy I use the phrase "the amoral manipulation of things to maximize profits & power"--that doesn't sound that crazy at all, does it? It sounds like what corporations do all the time.

"The amoral manipulation of things to maximize profits & power" -- why is it so hard to believe that a government, an industry, a company, a religion, a small group of politically-minded billionaires would not engage in such a thing? To me it sounds logical & inevitable.

Cassie thanks for sharing it with us. I think I will do some research on those medications the doctor gives me.

On the other side this is story that increases the what my psych book calls "Illusory Correlation."

"The amoral manipulation of things to maximize profits & power" maybe true of yours, but is it true in most of the things? In my oppinion NO.

I mean it is human to find relationships between two totally unrelated things and label it something totally wrong. The only thing that comes to my mind is the thinking that sugar increase hyperactivity in children. Studies have proven that this is nothing but a urban legend.

Originally posted by surfup
"The amoral manipulation of things to maximize profits & power" maybe true of yours, but is it true in most of the things? In my oppinion NO.

After working for a giant media & entertainment corporation for 4 years & witnessing first-hand the psychology of the people who are the movers & shakers & shapers of our collective pop-culture--the psychology of the people who are in power, want more power, or want to maintain their power--I am convinced that power & money are addictive drugs that will drive the addicted to commit amoral acts of greed. That is not true of every case; but it is also been my observation that those who try to stick to a moral code in these high-ranking circles end up not getting promoted or get a knife in their back for their efforts. I realize that I have painted a very dark picture of corporate life; and it is only my picture, my observations. But a cursory overview of history seems to indicate that power and the desire for money corrupts; and that some of the efforts to acquire more power & money involve planning. Respect for humanity does not seem to be much of a factor in these planning projects. I think the word "conspiracy" can draw a person into flights of fancy and make them ignore the "smaller" everyday "conspiracies." Like the fast food and candy ads targeted at children, helping to program them to have bad food habits; foods that will contibute to heart disease, diabetes, & obesity later in life. We can do something about this "conspiracy" to poison our children with very unhealthy foods for the sake of profits--it is a conspiracy that we can fight & win. But once we get off on tangents about the NWO and the aliens...not much that is good & tangible & that will help alieviate suffering in this world will be done.

Originally posted by surfup
"The amoral manipulation of things to maximize profits & power" maybe true of yours, but is it true in most of the things? In my oppinion NO.

I disagree with you completely on this. You haven't been around big businessmen much, have you? They're so warped, they consider money they haven't even made yet, "losing money". Many corps will do anything and everything they can to avoid "losing money", which is money that isn't yet theirs. IMO, that's about as warped as greed can make you. In other words, it kills these people to see that your money isn't going into their pockets, all the time. They're sick.

Do conspiracies exist? Yes, the probably do, but they are generally much more mundane then generally claimed, and they rarely remain secret for long. Human nature is after all human nature.

Yet there are SEVERAL conspiracies that DO have excellent evidence...

1. The government cover-up of extra-terrestrials. Their own ineptness and falsified investigations (Blue Book, Roswell Case Closed) reveals this.

2. The JFK assassination. Does anyone really believe the "magic bullet" theory proposed by the Warren Commission???

3. Castro assassination attempts by the US. Acknowledged, and even resulted in legislation against such actions...

and countless others...

No doubt, there are some WAY out there conspiracies, but that doesn't make them all invalid...

Originally posted by weirdo
In Britain you rarely see info on ufo`s the biggest one which made the news came from where ,you guessed it an America Air Force Base in .

I don't think you have watched much British television lately have you?

There are no conspiracies..
it's just that US of A is full of lone nuts with 3 names singularly responsible for unsolved assasinations and murders.

the latest being Ohsamah ben ladenned.

Gazrok, lets also not forget "Operation Northwoods"

�The likelihood of a secret remaining a secret is inversely proportional to the square of the number of people who are in on it.�

What if each of those people swore their lives (literally) in order to protect the secret? In other words- each person involved in the secret had an equal (and significant) thing to lose- their own life. Do you really think one of these people would take the risk of "exposing it all" on ATS?

Why do some people persist in the believing in some of these theories when all rational examination of the facts proves them wrong?

Perhaps because some of their beliefs are based in a reality that most people have never been in the position to experience. Rational analysis/examination is based on the presence and availability of observable data to the researcher. If someone is out to "prove" something, then one will be limited to the means by which they have access.

MK

[edit on 4-10-2004 by MKULTRA]

haha....did you know that the U.S. government spent $6.5 billion classifying (making secret) 14 million documents in the year of 2003. That's just putting the stuff on paper! Figures from the National Archives' information security oversight office and elsewhere show that the number of documents being classified has jumped 40 percent from 2001. In 1997 it was one 5th that. Could this be in response to the Freedom of Information Act?

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, but neither is it evidence of presence.
Only evidence is evidence of presence.

Ok so what's your point?

My point is that everytime someone has a theory which can not be backed up by anyform of evidence they trot out the tired old "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" line. Well while that is technically true they try to use it to lend credibillity to a theory which has no proof whatsoever. Example Person A could thoerise that john Kerry is a shapeshifting Aviod alien from the planet fargo who has come to earth to steal our supplies of twinkies and ring dings. When person B points out tht there is no evidence to support sad position person A trots out the old saw "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" as if it in some way legitimises his position which is bull#. The only thing which lends ANY credibillity to a theory whatsoever is EVIDNCE. If you don't have any then shut the hell up.

The only thing which lends ANY credibillity to a theory whatsoever is EVIDNCE. If you don't have any then shut the hell up.

and that is excactly why our government spends billions to prevent us from obtaining the evidence. why should we let them have their way? if this is the land of the free why should they have so much to hide? to this day i have not laid my hands on a single piece of tangable evidence. yet have heard arguments so stirring, they have left me in a state of dumbfoundedness..... no affirming of the truth. ideas have crossed my mind twisting my thoughts into a whirlpool of knowledge.... sitting, waiting, hoping, nothing comes to light. words, try as they might, can only hope to achieve a level of understanding our collective reasoning churns forth.... still, the world turns, at the pace our government dictates. with such a vast field of ignorance ravaging the streets of america, one would think there is a problem. fish dont know they are in water, humans dont know they are a commodity. the fatter we feed our pigs, the more money we get for them. the more unhealthy, obese, and ignorant our peoples become the more, pills, diet plans, and books we will sell them! so when mr roark asks "Are they all totally evil? " i would have to say. yes! yes they are!!!

[edit on 6-10-2004 by sturod84]

? to this day i have not laid my hands on a single piece of tangable evidence. yet have heard arguments so stirring, they have left me in a state of dumbfoundedness..... no affirming of the truth. ideas have crossed my mind twisting my thoughts into a whirlpool of knowledge....

See this is what I am talking about , you freely admit you have seen no evidence, that your belifs are based on nothing more than "dumbfounding" arguments, and yet you think that BECAUSE of that your mind is a whirlpool of knowledge

If you have no facts you have no knowledge, just theories, speculations, and fantasies.

Originally posted by mwm1331

? to this day i have not laid my hands on a single piece of tangable evidence. yet have heard arguments so stirring, they have left me in a state of dumbfoundedness..... no affirming of the truth. ideas have crossed my mind twisting my thoughts into a whirlpool of knowledge....

See this is what I am talking about , you freely admit you have seen no evidence, that your belifs are based on nothing more than "dumbfounding" arguments, and yet you think that BECAUSE of that your mind is a whirlpool of knowledge

If you have no facts you have no knowledge, just theories, speculations, and fantasies.

Hence, the problems start when all evidence is taken and suppressed by our wonderful government. No one has any evidence of anything. It's like trying to prove if there's a god or not. One group has no evidence but some words in a book, and the other has even less, but thinks that the first group are idiots for trusting in something so surely, without anything more than the mere words of others. If we ever want to know anything important again, we need to stop our gov. from taking evidence from us. They should be forced to release everything they have. This is the largest attack on US soil, right? Shouldn't we be absolutely sure we know what the hell is going on??? Isn't that detrimental to the future of our country??? Why in the hell should I believe I'm not being deceived, if they don't even care that I might think that? It's a non-issue to them, for some reason. Instead of people getting angry and demanding the gov. come clean, some would rather justify it, any way they can, and close their eyes! WTF??? Don't you realize that you're allowing yourselves to be cut out of the loop entirely? You've lost all power over your government, and you don't even notice.

[edit on 6-10-2004 by Damned]

People who thinks that everything is "smooth" "cool" and they watch the news and beleive everything without asking themselves any questions, they should really Wake-UP!!!!!! We are not in a perfect world with honest people at the gov and the truth we know like 10% of it!!!! But TRY to tell them that there is conspiracies! Good luck!!!!!

Ameliaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Originally posted by mwm1331

See this is what I am talking about , you freely admit you have seen no evidence, that your belifs are based on nothing more than "dumbfounding" arguments, and yet you think that BECAUSE of that your mind is a whirlpool of knowledge

If you have no facts you have no knowledge, just theories, speculations, and fantasies.

you cannot have a theory, speculation or fantasy without facts now, can you? theorise on anything and it is because there is a 'thing' to speculate on. that is a fact. this thing you are theorizing or speculating or fantasizing about exists. that is how you are able to think about it. otherwise it would be nothing and you would be a buddhist zen master in a deep meditative state.
the degree of speculation that diverges from information commonly accepted as fact weakens the theory. however, if there is supporting evidence from surrounding spheres of related information that can be cross correlated, then this should not be ignored, and the assumptions that the previous 'fact' was based on must be examined in detail in the same manner. and so on until there are strong connections once again in our internal lexus of logic that each of thinks is 'reality'. we each have different databases, and intellectual arrogance is akin to 'embracing ignorance'.

[edit on 6-10-2004 by billybob]