Why my mind is closing towards Capitalism

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by theubermensch

You still havent said 'Woodrow Wilson'

Im impressed.

Socialists arent going to go and hide in the woods. Our numbers are growing by the day. Real change means global socialism. Socialism for America.

This way it comes.

Really?... Well, you will find yourself with an oposition of billions of people, millions of which will be armed to the teeth...

I hope you are more than willing to pay the price...

You dont think socialists own guns?

Come with us comrade

Originally posted by theubermensch

Im a socialist not a limp wristed liberal.

A revolutionary socialist beats an 'all talk,do nothing,capitalist neocon' everytime.

First of all, for your information the word "neocon" was made up to describe a leftwinger trying to pass for a rightwinger...

Second of all, "revolutionary socialists" are the worst scum in the world... They included people like Che Guevara, which you and yours have no idea of, or just want to ignore all the attrocities they committed...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


We already went over this with Lenin.

Lincoln is a mass murderer is what you are saying?

Originally posted by aching_knuckles
reply to post by MajorKarma

 

Ah yes, the hypocritical hero Ayn Rand, who declared that everyone should stand on their own two feet and NEVER accept help from anyone.....right up until she was old and poor and had to get on Social Security until she died.

This is the problem, the capitalists and their heroes are all liars, as you can see throughout this thread. Hey Skyfloating, instead of a picture of Pyongyang, how about a picture of Oslo? You have heard of Norway, right? It is a beautiful country...and the most taxed in the world.



OMG ITS A NIGHTMARE, QUICK BOMB THEM!!!!

Another Clerk speaks and like that other twit is full of opinions and nothing to back them up. When ATS started the site was full of people worth a debate but these days I find myself kicking off little dogs humping my leg just like you. I am sorry you are stuck with no future but as the saying goes; Buzzards gotta eat, same as worms.

In 2010 a smear was done on Ayn Rand, one of the favorite targets in the world for smears and attacks. Typically her critics have invented lies about Rand or, at the very least, grossly distorted the facts.

The complete article and rebuttal to this crap about Ayn Rand can be found here:
Lying about Ayn Rand and Social Security

freestudents.blogspot.com...

Originally posted by theubermensch

You dont think socialists own guns?

Come with us comrade

Socialists/communists seek to deprive everyone but themselves the use of weapons. it is the way they have terrorized so many in 100 years...

And go to hell, people like you have never experienced the hellhole you want to implement, while people like me lived and experienced such hellholes.

Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by maestromason

 

yes but would the world work if everyone was a business owner? can everyone be a ceo?

No they cannot. That's why CEOs tend to get paid more. Resources that are scarce fetch a higher price.

Originally posted by theubermensch

We already went over this with Lenin.

Lincoln is a mass murderer is what you are saying?

Lincoln was a Republican President who helped, alongside REPUBLICANS, to get rid of slavery in the states... It was the leftwinger Democrats who wanted slavery to continue...

Lincoln and Lenin had NOTHING in common...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


How the heck are3 commies and socialists meant to otherthrow government without guns?

You are thinking of liberals.

Originally posted by theubermensch

How the heck are3 commies and socialists meant to otherthrow government without guns?

You are thinking of liberals.

You don't use guns to overthrow governments, you use lies and deceipt to overthrow governments... The weapons you use against the people you claim to represent...

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by theubermensch

How the heck are3 commies and socialists meant to otherthrow government without guns?

You are thinking of liberals.

You don't use guns to overthrow governments, you use lies and deceipt to overthrow governments... The weapons you use against the people you claim to represent...

Sounds like capitalism.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

TextAnd go to hell,

And I dont mean to get you angry. Sorry if Im being rude,going for funny.

Its cool that we disagree. At least we are thinking about things.

Originally posted by theubermensch

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by theubermensch

How the heck are3 commies and socialists meant to otherthrow government without guns?

You are thinking of liberals.

You don't use guns to overthrow governments, you use lies and deceipt to overthrow governments... The weapons you use against the people you claim to represent...

Sounds like capitalism.

Again, leftwingers like you show to not know what you are talking about...

Capitalism is not a form of government, it is an economic system, and as such has no control on whether or not you have weapons...

Originally posted by theubermensch

And I dont mean to get you angry. Sorry if Im being rude,going for funny.

Its cool that we disagree. At least we are thinking about things.

I lived and experienced communism, and still have family in such a hellhole you want to implement around the world, hence why I don't find funny when ignorant people call me "comrad"...

Originally posted by theubermensch

Originally posted by Tea4One
I'm going to bed. This discussion has been a pleasure. I shall leave you with something from Marx...

"Capitalism is whack y'all."

“The last capitalist we hang shall be the one who sold us the rope.”
― Karl Marx

Thats my fav.

Haha, mine too, because it is implying (unintentionally, I'm sure) that without the capitalist, there is no rope.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

Originally posted by aravoth

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


Socialism is a social institution that can be integrated, politically, by varying degrees. It doesn't even have to have anything to do with politics. It's more of a function designed to keep disparity levels from becoming too excessive. It is also essential to implement within a faltering country to save it from economic collapse (ie, Keynesism).

Yes, you are correct, socialism is social engineering, which never allows anyone to fall to short, or anyone excel to far, it keeps everyone nice, stupid, and mediocre, always catering to the lowest common denominator.

Usually that includes people that think John Maynard Keynes was smart, and that Keynesianism "saves" anything from collapse, when it's actually Keynesianism that caused the collapse in the first place.

Cool story though...

You MUST be joking. Keynes caused the Great Depression? His ideas of government stimulating the public into resucitating the economy saved western countries. His whole point was for government to spend when the people cannot. How is that wrong?

And you think socialists are stupid? Free university in socialist countries. I already owe over 30Gs halfway into my degree.

ElectricUniverse-
Obviously you don't know what a University is... in a university you don't learn to "better society" you learn to THINK FOR YOURSELF and learn something that you can use in real life.

I don't know what a university is? I go there every day.

What I just quoted is a sad piece of text. "in a university you don't learn to "better society"". You seriously lack perception.

It is called PERSONAL DECISION, obviously something you have no idea what it means... Of course people like you would rather FORCE everyone to do your will...

I wish to force people to do things against their will? Did I suddenly evolve from a socialist to a fascist?

I don't know if you've noticed or not, but in socialist societies there is far, far greater opportunity to do what you wish to do in life. Money is not the issue, commitment is. If you're committed, then you'll get all of the training you need plus the actual position. In capitalist countries, for the same opportunity, one needs to be financially well off or good at blowing the boss.

Capitalism, and free markets, when they WERE free, actually helped people, not only did it help people personally better themselves, but when you better yourself and other people better themselves EVERYONE betters themselves...

You talk as if Adam Smith's "invisible hand" is gospel.

ETA, or Euskadi Ta Askatasuna, are the socialists who have been bombing Spain ever since they founded their group... It hasn't been NATO...it has been ETA.

Maybe you should study it up a bit. Try the book "NATO's Secret Armies - Operation Gladio" to start off with.

It is leftwing/socialist/communist ideology which seeks to centralize power, restrict individual liberty and take away the right to choose...

And there you go, grouping socialism and everything "leftwing" as being the same as demonized communism. You do know that there are socialist aspects in democratic, de-centralized, countries... right? There's a lot of socialism in my country and we're the 2nd most de-centralized nation on earth, right behind Spain.

-----

Anyways, here's a short diagram I made comparing the two different ideologies. Key point here: Unlike the posters that I have been responding to, I do not treat socialism as a threatening hostile idealogy; I see it as a separate, alternative, social system.

In my diagram, I try to emphasize that in a socialist society there is no disparity by design because people have a different wealth distribution system. I also try to demonstrate that from a capitalist perspective, why the successful capitalists can not accept socialism.

You are lost. Keynes saved western countries? Government cannot spend anything, it has no profit margin, it produces nothing. Everything it has it takes from it's people. So if it borrows a ton of money to stimulate an economy who has to pay it back? Do you not understand that debt matters, did the last 4 years teach you nothing at all? Do you even understand that the real estate bubble was caused by government stimulation of the housing sector? Thats what caused the imbalance, and the eventual burst of that bubble,

Your system creates bubbles, and encourages reckless consumption, and you don't even realize it. Jesus....

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by theubermensch

And I dont mean to get you angry. Sorry if Im being rude,going for funny.

Its cool that we disagree. At least we are thinking about things.

I lived and experienced communism, and still have family in such a hellhole you want to implement around the world, hence why I don't find funny when ignorant people call me "comrad"...

So we agree to disagree then comrade.

Thats cool

Originally posted by ANOK
Yep capitalism creates artificial scarcity, which makes it very difficult for people to better their lives.

All we need is the means and the labour to make everyone fat and happy, and we have an abundance of both.

Scarcity is an artificial creation of capitalism.

Indeed. It's very perverted how Capitalist markets manipulate both scarcity (of things that are plentiful) and over-consumption/plenty (of things that are finite/scarce). THAT IS HOW MARKETS WORK! And I don't know why these people don't see it right in front of their faces EVERY DAY. The market is essentially a for-profit bullsh** machine... and advertising, commercialism, consumerism, profit-motive, wage-slavery, over-consumption, and the hijacking of our government is testament to this. And that's why I'm an Anarchist... these massive/stratified market/government ideologies are just not suitable to anything remotely resembling an ideal or holistically sustainable future on this planet.

Originally posted by Tsurugi

Originally posted by theubermensch

Originally posted by Tea4One
I'm going to bed. This discussion has been a pleasure. I shall leave you with something from Marx...

"Capitalism is whack y'all."

“The last capitalist we hang shall be the one who sold us the rope.”
― Karl Marx

Thats my fav.

Haha, mine too, because it is implying (unintentionally, I'm sure) that without the capitalist, there is no rope.

edit on 2/2/2012 by Tsurugi because: (no reason given)

Even when they read the quotes by Marx, and other socialists/communists, these people seem unable to understand what they are reading...

All socialists/communists seem to live in the clouds, and cannot seem able to comprehend reality...

For these people capitalists are not only "the top 1%' who often times are able to escape nations embracing socialism/communism... For these people capitalists are anyone who dares own anything... Anyone who dares to want to make money for his/her family or for themselves... Anyone who dares want to have a better life for themselves...

For these people it seems that it wasn't enough that their ideologies murdered over 110 million people, and imprisoned millions more because they would not accept socialism/communism...

For these people it wasn't enough that such atrocities were committed in just some nations, they want it to happen worldwide...

reply to post by aravoth


What I am suggesting is that Socialism can greatly mitigate the kind of exploitation that Capitalism actively encourages. That's all. There is no perfect world, but there absolutely are no-brainer improvements we have yet to make, and intelligent/Democratic/horizontal Socialism simply must be a part of that otherwise it's a scam.

reply to post by maestromason


It is pretty clear that you have some special talents and ambition. As such, even in a socialist economy you would be rewarded greatly. I think you may even find that you would be better off than you are now. Of course if you are worth $100 million, for instance, then it probably would mean you would be worse off. If you are Bill Gates then maybe you would still be worth that amount.

I don't think anyone advocating socialism here has ever stated that incomes should be equal across the board. More equal is the key. if you want this to be an honest discusssion you need to stop putting words in other peoples mouth's. It discredits your whole argument. Same goes for everyone else doing this. You deserve to do well and you would continue to do well under a well designed socialist system.

As for criticizing past attempts as socialism, none of them were or are the same brand of socialism that is being promoted in this thread. Again, this is intellectual dishonesty at best.

Everyone's main argument against socialism is that you can't do it without corruption. i think this is horse pucky. If the will exists to do away with corruption, it can be achieved.

They also say that innovation will be stifled. Again this horse pucky. Without corporations protecting profits everything we make, we will start making better, lasting longer, etc. We will find we can do much more with the same amount of resources. Financial incentives would still be widely available for those who come up with best ideas. In fact, without the quest for profit involved, innovation will flourish. We can now pursue the things that were too costly prior but benefit society as whole.