Any thoughts?

I just was in an interesting debate with my father, at work. We had started talking politics, and this branched into a theory I ended up proposing...(keep in mind that while we are both intelligent people, we are by no means scholars in any specific field, let alone world religions)

We began discussing similarities in the Abrahamic religions. This lead to the consession from my father that while he does believe that Christ is Gods only begotten son, he also believes that (his) Holy Grail is the knowledge of Christ's lineage on Earth. He conseeded to me that through Christ's bloodline on Earth, the second coming of Christ will come to "clean" the world in the likeness of Sodom and Gomorrah. This is his theory on the "2012, end of the world "non-sense"".

From this consession, I asked him about his beliefs in the Merovingian families belief they are from the bloodline of Christ and Satan. He stated that he knew of the family, and its connections to the theories of the Illuminati, Old World Order, Occultism, but that he did not know they believed themselves to be of Christ/Satans blood. We moved on to discuss things such as tithing, war/violence in the name of "God", and control/manipulation of populations.

In the end I asked him to comment on the similarities of two different systems of beliefs that when layed out on top of each other, the pieces "seem to fall in to place, perfectly".. My proposal was-

A Christian is to believe that man is wicked. It is repeated over and over, we were made in Gods image and likeness, but because of the sins of the flesh and the knowledge from the Tree of Good and Evil, we were cast out of the garden of Eden (living aboundantly) and all subsequent generations were trapped in their flesh to sin. Because of this sin debt were are all in debted to God, we must bow down and submit to the will of God, and we must tithe to fund the missions of God, in spreading his message of salvation to the globe. Through to the end, we must follow specific rules and guidlines, give money, submit to the "ultimate" authority, and have FAITH that one day in the distant future, God will again send his son to "save" mankind and usher in a New World with Christ as the King of Kings

Now we look at this Merovingian bloodline, and their supposed ties to the Old World Order. alternative media sources would state that the Old World Order (Illuminati- not going to debate either way if the Illuminati are really workers for good, or evil occultist) has been in place for centuries, if not thousands of years (some would state the OWO is branched from the Mystery Religions of Babylon). This long standing entity is said to be the force behind almost all of the evil in the world today. This force is said to have manipulated its way in to government, banking, education, almost every subject of influence throughout the course of modern history. This OWO is said to be working feverishly to usher in a new era of complete control. This new era will be a police-state/world, one world government/bank, one world religion, and a complete devolution in people from citizens to serfs. What does that imply?

Well, back to the Merovingian bloodline...
They are involved in the Old World Order, this order is working to mandate that every person follows a specific set of rules and guidlines, pay a set amount of taxes, submit to their "ultimate" authority, and have FAITH that any suffering will be made right by the knowledge of future security and protection. the Merovingian's would probably want to instill the FAITH in the masses that one day through THEIR bloodline that Christ will again reign on Earth.

To spell out my proposal more directly; both theories invoke the same principles: follow the rules we have set out for living, follow the guidlines we have set to how you should live your daily life, give money to the authority (tithing, taxes), understand that you yourself are not strong and are weak in the eyes of the "Lord" and must bow and submit fully to their will for any chance of life, and have FAITH that one day the second coming of the Son of God will again reside on this Earth to rule as the King of Kings.

I believe in a great Creator, but I believe that man has manipulate the truth of the Creator, by placing names and dates to create a persons own spin on things, for the ability to lead and control the masses. I am not proposing this discussion I had with my father at work is of any credibility or scientific fact lol. this is just a question and string of ideas I had come up with. I wanted to know If anyone has had a thought such as this before, and if anyone whom has would like to elaborate and educate me on your thoughts.

Equal Righs, Justice, Peace, and Love to All

To me, first of all. It's a breath of fresh air, that a father and son can carry on a discussion of this nature.

I tend to agree with you, in that man has given importance to names and actions, in order to control the masses.

Our world history is rife with struggles, and wars, all in the name of religion. The whole world is divided up according to
which particular religion, overpowers another to take their land and resources.

I can't help but wonder what our world would look like now, had that not have happened. What would the political landscape be, or if politics would even factor in.

Good thread...TY...

Thanks for sharing, it does look like you were consolidating an understanding with your Dad, which is cool, I'm sure your discussion touched on a few things that we talk about here. Good to know you take the ATS spirit into the real world! Maybe you can keep your feet on the ground and head out of the clouds while here too :p

I guess that you haven't figured out yet that nearly all major wars and revolutions were planned, instigated, financed and implemented by one group? Your propagandist statement about "religion is a control" comment is a telling indicator. Kind of like the "religious crutch" angle that people throw around, never quite realising where they got it from - from the same group who invented the Jesus and kids myth. From the same group who produce every anti-Christ film, tv show and music. From the same group who controls all banking. From the same group who infiltrate to divide and conquer. From the same group who controls our government and law-making. From the same group who own all of our school text book publishing houses and media sources. From the same group who censors our news because they own the distribution networks.

I hope that I've made a point. Do you still feel that "religion controls" or do you refuse to see how you and your dad's opinions are just parroting what has been given to you from this same group? What they want you to believe?

reply to post by WhoKnows100


Religion started off about control, thats a fact. Constantine did not commision the council of Nicea to put together the christian cannon as we know it today because he was just oh-so concerned about the souls of his fellow man. Rather because the Roman empire could not afford the "circuses" that they kept the people in line and distracted with in the past. So they invented a system that taught vows of chastity and poverty. Your "real" reward is in heaven...blah blah. The reason I believe that more and more young people today are not going to church is because "they" have instituted much better forms of control/distraction and keeping people in line with technology. Religion and spirituality are two very different things. Religion is not needed by them so much. Religion teaches you that God is something external that can never be pleased, it is based on authority and does not want you to ask questions. i went to church from the time I could remember till I moved out of my parents house at age 20. I remember being about 7-8 and asked the pastor why God needs money up in Heaven? He looked at me like I had a giant phallus growing out my forehead and said simply "Because God tells us to in the bible". Maybe these same people that institued Religion are now talking smack about it because they realize it is no longer needed to keep people in line? Self-gratification and material possessions are the new Religion.

reply to post by WhoKnows100


wow, man. i am not going to try to prove my spirituality to you as i dont care about your opinions of what you think i know or believe. who are you? lol. but...if you go back to the OP i stated this was a discussion between me and my father and that we are not scholars of religion and this was not a lecture to a mass of people lol. i posted this to see if anyone had drawn these loose connections between "NWO" theories and religion. i am not atheist, and i do believe in God. you provided nothing of use with your post.

thank you

reply to post by Cancerwarrior


thank you. i believe you have had the realization of these losse connections before, and i appreciate your information

reply to post by JAsay1LOVE

Any thoughts?

A lot of broad strokes and overlapping assumptions based on interpretation of various opinions.

We all have them... opinions, that is. We are all referencing the same basic literature/scripture which, when presented as historical narrative, leave a lot of gaps that can only be filled with conjecture... read: crapshoot.

God, who or whatever this being may be, is left to us as individuals to approach. Organized religion once led the way with scholars of faith that spent their entire lives studying the various records to then be guided by specific, preexisting interpretation. However, today's faith and search of truth in God has moved away from the rigid ideologies and more to those personal searches. This is, in my opinion, as it should be.

Humans have an awful habit of lumping large sums of complete strangers together and then stereotyping that group based on their view of a very few. When this is applied to a social/cultural situation, those stereotypers are often tagged as racists or homophobes, etc. But when it comes to faith, the stereotyping of one religion or the next, belief in one deity or the next, is still widely and openly practiced. In fact, bashing people of faith today is considered quite trendy.

As for what we know of the Merovingian line... and what we think we know in the modern sense of Templars, Illuminati, etc? One must be able to grasp the meaning of time. The concept of these long-running lines and belief systems often relies on the faith supported them in the beginning. To wit: Christianity has itself survived for many centuries and so too, these lesser known or understood subdivisions. But clearly before us is the fact that Christianity has NOT survived as it originally sprung forth and that time has refined, redirected and fully dissected this faith into something almost unrecognizable from that which existed during the age of the Merovingians and Templars, etc.

So, whatever has survived of those oft-referenced names/lines cannot be expected to have survived in any recognizable form. Time will have changed each in profound ways. It is only our romanticism for such historical figures that leads us down the darkened paths in search of long haired monarchs, white tunics with red crosses and conspiracies driven by the archaic vision.

The human condition is constant, and it's place in time is not. The output... the product (though not final by any stretch) is who and what we are today. If one takes the time to read even a portion of the Gnostic Gospels and the hugely isolated, if not completely unique one named for Judas Iscariot, this very concept is reflected.

What was, was but will not forever be. What is, is but will tomorrow change. What will be, will be but will not forever remain. We should learn from history but never try to replace the present or the future with the past.

This is a guide stone.

Originally posted by redoubt

What was, was but will not forever be. What is, is but will tomorrow change. What will be, will be but will not forever remain. We should learn from history but never try to replace the present or the future with the past.

This is a guide stone.

i appreciate your insight. thank you my freind

reply to post by JAsay1LOVE


My thought:


"Is your dad aware that "The DaVinci Code" is found in the fiction section of the bookstore"?

reply to post by NOTurTypical


lol yes. i dont want to take from your attempted sly remark, but i was proposing that idea...he was sticking to the devout baptist Christian beliefs

you shouldnt belittle my father, hes a great man and didnt say that...re read the OP and re discover that I proposed that idea..then your can repost your comment but about ME as opposed to HIM

thank you my friend

Equal Rights, Justice, Peace, and Love to All

Originally posted by JAsay1LOVE
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

lol yes. i dont want to take from your attempted sly remark, but i was proposing that idea...he was sticking to the devout baptist Christian beliefs

you shouldnt belittle my father, hes a great man and didnt say that...re read the OP and re discover that I proposed that idea..then your can repost your comment but about ME as opposed to HIM

thank you my friend

Equal Rights, Justice, Peace, and Love to All

Hey, you're one who said in the OP that it was a "concession from" your father.

I'm not belittling anyone. With the book "The DaVinci Code" you have THOUSANDS of people who think now that Jesus and Mary had a baby, with most of these folks not realizing Dan Brown's book is fiction, and found in the fiction section of the bookstore.

The book presents the reader with a "fact sheet" in the beginning of the novel that is anything but factual, it's a blatant distortion of history for the purpose of making his story sound better.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


ahhh i understand man. i appologize for my initial defensiveness. protecting family, i believe you can understand that. No harm intended my freind.

i do fully understand what you are saying, and i do fully understand those books, and movies, are not factual entities. i enjoyed the enertainment they provided but no i do not believe them to be fact. my entire point in this thread was to hear other peoples opinions on the subject. I do not fully believe the ideas i proposed. my father and I were just doing like we always do, take opposing stances on topics, whether we believe them or not, and debate them to the best of our abilities. we have done this my whole life as a way to teach me to communicate, debate, discuss, and grow intellectually. for even if we begin ignorant to the topic at the start, by sparing back and forth, questions and ideas arrise which we then take on our own to research, study, and draw our own conclusions.

i was attempting to do the same here. every comment on my post has been a comment on the stances my father and i took in the discussion. i was hoping for others to add their insight on this subject. if the replier has no stance and thinks this is a dumb thread than no comment needed, and i am sorry to have "wasted" his or her time; but i was hoping to start a discussion with ATS members here whom may have been interested in having a similar discussion.

please, if anyone would like to join on this dicussion please do. that is what i was hoping for...to continue the discussion i had at work- to here on ATS
i stated i am no scholar, but i am only alive to gather all information from this existence as possible. while i agree in absolute truths, i believe most of what is "true" is merely the perspective of the person perceiving the experience. even if my stance is wrong, or other stances are wrong, if we openly discuss our stances we all will grow in life.

Thank You
Equal Rights, Justice, Peace, and Love for All

reply to post by JAsay1LOVE


I would enjoy that kind of debate with my dad as well. And from time to time we do with politics, but as of late I am sorta thinking the two parties are just the same. Well, that's good you realize it's just a book of fiction, but in my hobby of Apologetics It's usually on a daily basis that I have to combat someone who thinks the nonsense in Dan Brown's books is true.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


lol i can appreciate that. debating is by far my favorite hobby, and i would most def agree that our two party system is of the same controlling body. they put on a show of debates concerning minimal issues, but on major issues they are all like minded. right and left give the masses the false belief they are in control of the system. it amazes me how so many people believe this contry is a democracy and that we need to spread democracy to the world...but the Constitution does not even call our country a democracy. America was founded as a Republic government. when one dissects the meaning of democracy, a basic defonition would be 51% own 49%. those 49% get to vote on the matter, but ultimately the will of the 51% rules. politics is one of my favorite topics of discussion. possibly only second to religion. i continuously stated i am no scholar in religions; however, i have studied Easter Orthodox Christianity, Catholosism, Orthodox Judiaism, and Islam at the college level, for college credts. i have been a guest at many Mosques, Synagogues, as well as many different catagories of Protestant Christianity Chuch services.

one person commented on this thread that i had to be under the beliefs of what the people who control govnt, education, economics, etc, what they want me to believe. he was assuming i was a drone who was not able to think for my own...but that is why i began this thread from the start...
I DONT WANT TO LOOK THROUGH ANYMORE SCHOOL BOOKS AND WANT TO HEAR WHAT EDUCATED PEOPLE NOT ASSOCIATED WITH THE PRINTING OF THOSE SCHOOL TEXT BOOKS HAVE TO SAY LOL

IMO, the only way we truly can tap into what our locked minds have forgotten, in our current state of conciousness, is to debate and discuss and to learn from one another.to break down the walls which have been constructed in our minds to again think freely. education is controlled by a group of people linked to the state and government...they teach us to look for them for the truth and advice, and i believe this is why the country is in its current state. If the population can again treat each other with RESPECT, EQUAL RIGHTS, and JUSTICE; i believe when we can treat each other with these three things, we will re open an open dialoge in ur communities. When the communities are once again strong, and vocal in the political system, the country will follow suit. the school system manipulates students to believing the school authority and government are more important, and have more authority than the students family (in regards to authority directly over the students well being, and daily life).

this dealth of the family has allowed the government to eliminate rights and freedoms of the individual, for the "betterment" of society. if the students held their devotion and loyalty to their families, and remembered that all humans are of the same family (species), then the evil we see today could have never grown to so much influence.

what do you think?