Dassault Rafale wins India's biggest fighter deal for $10.4 billion

Times of India has reported that the French company has been given go ahead for the lucrative deal which is the biggest in India's defence history.
Indian Air Force has long awaited for ten years for this deal as it seeks modernisation of resources.
What you guys think about the Rafale???
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Dassault Rafale wins India's biggest fighter deal for $10.4 billion

posted in the wrong section by mistake.
Mods plz move it to the respective section.
thanks.

If India is looking to operate it from a carrier, it was the only option following the short listing of this with the Typhoon, EADS must have known their offer of developing a naval used Typhoon was a long shot, with the Rafale M actually in service.

There is nothing at all wrong with the Rafale, I wish the Royal Navy was buying it too

Further info

Funny how the article stresses that no political influences were to be allowed in the decision, then points out that France was the only country not to censure India following the Pakhora II tests?

I do regard the Typhoon as the (just) superior aircraft and have previously written on here that I thought it would win. I wondered how willing France would be to the technology transfer, but they seem to be perfectly willing as the article says. I am still puzzled though how the Typhoon was even short listed in the final two as being, along with Rafale of course, one of the only two that met the technical requirements in every respect?

Given that Typhoon is not, and never was until very recently, designed with carrier ops in mind,how could this be? That is probably why I thought it would win. It seemed that carrier operation was not that important after all.

However I do regard the Rafale as the best operational carrier based fighter in the world today, all things considered. The US certainly put out some great technology, and in that field alone they have an obvious lead, but the airframes they are being offered in are old and tired and, in the case of the F-18 specifically, just not that great. I think when India states it is looking at a 40 year operational life it becomes obvious why the US offerings did not make it through. If the F-35 hadn't turned out to be such a cash hungry hangar queen it might have been different.

I think Indias next big contract after this one will be when the buy the Sukhoi T-50. While the debates can rage on whether it beats the F-22 or not, the fact that aircraft is not for sale means India buying second best if they go anywhere else, and I do include my beloved Typhoon and the F-35 in that

It's really pretty sad the United States never could make the F-35, and make it cheaply enough India would want it.

Malaysia is also buying them and the Royal Thai Air Force is buying Saab Gripens instead of American fighters.

How on Earth did America stop making fighter aircraft other countries wanted? Oh yeah....America's Air industry fell apart due to allllll the cuts made over the years.

Originally posted by Pervius
It's really pretty sad the United States never could make the F-35, and make it cheaply enough India would want it

Since when have India been buying American fighters? Why would any country that behaves in any way politically independently want to buy the F-35 at the price it will eventually run too?

Malaysia is also buying them and the Royal Thai Air Force is buying Saab Gripens instead of American fighters.

Smaller air forces simply can not afford to put their few eggs in the F-35 type basket as it just severely reduces the number of air frames they can acquire with even more money being drained away in keeping these aircraft operating in any kind of stealthy well maintained way. Also the whole question of foreign sales of 'high tech' aircraft is rather political and i am not sure that the F-35 is even on offer to any countries other than the original partners? I suspect the 'buy in' price would be rather significant at this late date?

How on Earth did America stop making fighter aircraft other countries wanted? Oh yeah....America's Air industry fell apart due to allllll the cuts made over the years.

I am not sure that it's a question of want as much as it is a question of affordability. Most countries needs to maintain some kind of air defense force but given the likely enemies it would be extremely inefficient to acquire&operate something as needlessly complex given the limited utility it's stealthiness represents. Only the US can begin to contemplate affording force numbers that ensures that however infrequently it might actually get in the air there will still be enough operable air frames to ensure national defense if not , perhaps, "national security".

As for the 'cuts' i do not know where you get that from as the industry that can come up with such ridiculously expensive and complex toys as the F-117, B-2, F-22, V-22, F-35 was not then and is not today 'underfunded' or facing the type of cuts that would soon result in sanity prevailing. Such airplanes& ridiculously long research and acquisition cycles, with such lackadaisical oversight, can only be the result of little fear of critical considered cuts or a lack of future funding. As long as you provide the correct bribes to the correct people your product just needs to fly occasionally and not kill too many dozens of pilots&crew.

Stellar

How is it that india only has 75% literacy rating, their people live in shacks like savages but they have money to spend on a space program and an air force?

reply to post by Kutas



Because the UK amongst other countries continues to give them billions in aid? That and their economy is growing at a far faster rate than most if not all western countries. But instead of using the cash they gain in taxes to improve the lives of the poor they use it to line the pockets of corrupt officials and spend the rest on space programs.

Originally posted by Kutas
How is it that india only has 75% literacy rating, their people live in shacks like savages but they have money to spend on a space program and an air force?

While agreeing with solidshot it's perhaps useful to point out that we do live in world were countries take advantage of other countries and that countries who look unable to defend their borders or their airways stand to lose rather more than the few billions of dollars it costs to occasionally invest in a more credible defense. Obviously in countries that has such issues with poverty the people should have the means to impress their priorities on their representatives in government but given India's location and it's history with it's neighbors India could probably not spend much less than they do even if they could certainly do so more efficiently.

Stellar

reply to post by Kutas


If I had a penny for every time this was said.. I'd use it for a literacy campaign in India!

The answer to your question:
Because otherwise the 75% who are literate would be speaking 'Yankee' or 'Chinese' or some other arm-twisting foreign policy.
And believe me, the 75% that are literate care more, have done more, and will continue to collectively do more for the 25% than any other segment in the world, including concerned bloggers and discussion forum enthusiasts (no offence)

reply to post by solidshot


Its interesting that you mention this. I just did a google for 'uk aid india' and was amused at the results (Just looked at page 1 btw and ran this at the time is post was written)

Maybe all this is a result of a not so-happy dialogue between the two countries post the decision?

reply to post by StellarX


spot on with the inefficiency bit!

reply to post by waynos


So it seems that carrier operability was not a decisive factor here. I think this deal is limited to the C and B versions ; not the naval M version I think.

The carrier aircraft future for India seems to be with the MiG-29K (buy more as-you-go) and the predictably struggling Naval-LCA. However, with the fluid nature of Indian defence policy and development programs, the Rafale could be an option.
But the political aspect is definitely a big one, considering the absence nuclear sanctions and also that France came through with assistance and direct LGB weapons support during the Kargil conflict in 1999.
France has been known to toe its own line, and not really be pressured into western policy.

Another aspect:
India potentially sees a lot of decision-oriented control in the evolution of the aircraft since this purchase is a last-gasp saving grace for the Rafale, in terms of foreign sales. Though this was offered for the Typhoon, I guess India thought that there were many cooks in the Typhoon kitchen. This would potentially weaken its vote on the evolution, and also open the aircraft to influence from the outside because of the various partners (including the Saudis?)
This is probably why India never chose American, since it seems they have gone to great lengths to avoid any potential American influence in the aircraft. Perhaps they are learning from CISMOA experiences with the P-8I, and still have residual cold war mindset?

Lastly, maybe they expect some synergies/access to the Neuron program for their own UCAV program?

Contrarily, I will stand with Waynos again.
Last year, demonstration done by Rafale was M version at aeroindia airshow.
And if you check past news, all of version mentioned in purchasing Rafale from India was M.
I did analysis here for somebody are able to read Chinese.

reply to post by emile


hmmm.. rafalenews.blogspot.com...

and this! www.rafale.co.in...

reply to post by Daedalus3


Funny how they are Including India's Jaguar purchase in their "long association" spiel in the second link, how ironic!

His thought was that to replace Jaguar in stead of replacing MiG-29K.
But, our friend didn't see that Rafale will enter IAF after almost one decade later, for that period, the second indigenous carrier for INDIA will entry service, it is hardly to think INDIAN could be such stupid to put all their eggs in one basket, whereas Rafale ordered today would be the best option tomorrow.

I am not saying that MiG-29K are unable to beat Rafale, what I mean is: unlike corrupted Chinese Gov. today, India know better how to convert their foreign exchange reserve to real facility for own benefits.

reply to post by waynos

India will not buy from UK/US because India does not want to be under their thumb. You will not get spare parts when you are in their " bad book". It safer to buy from Russia cos Russia doesn't force others to toe the line. Russia fights its own wars. Do not forget India, Pakistan and Bangladesh were originally India. They segregated because of religion so in a way they are the same people with differing religious beliefs. Another factor is India uses a lot of French radar in their planes which also includes the Mirage 2000. Even their SU30MKI uses French radar.

reply to post by slanteye


You seem to be ignoring the following British aircraft in India's inventory:

- Hawker Siddeley HS 748.

- Sepecat Jaguar.

- BAE Hawk.

- BAE Sea Harrier

- Westland Sea King

Britain will sell weapons to anyone, without thinking about it. That's why during the Falkands we found ourselves up against Destroyers which we sold only a few years before.

That simple fact is the French were more desperate for the deal and could go lower than Eurofighter.

Jensy