Iran War. How do you think it will lead to that and the possible outcome.

Originally posted by superman2012
Yes, you are right, oil is a commodity. Don't you think the US would love to have control over this?:

Energy resources in Iran consist of the third largest oil reserves and the second largest natural gas reserves in the world.

Could you provide us with a link for your source?
I'd like to review the rest of it.

Thanks.

Originally posted by spy66
Well explaining the whole context of this political arena is enough to be its own thread.
I am not going to answer a Post by bringing up the whole history of man kind to explain.

No offense but

Then why bring it up in the first place if you're going to leave out critical details and contributing historic facts?

Just to show only an incomplete possibly slanted version of events?

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by superman2012
THREAT POSED BY ELECTROMAGNETIC PULSE (EMP) TO U.S. MILITARY SYSTEMS AND CIVIL INFRASTRUCTURE

House of Representatives,
Committee on National Security,
Military Research and Development Subcommittee,
Washington, DC, Wednesday, July 16, 1997.

Newest one I could find in a 3 min search. It clearly shows that nothing was done about it up to that time. I wonder if I will find any newer ones?

Did you take the time to read it thoroughly?

"One of our earliest experiences with high-altitude EMP dates back to the resumption of atmospheric nuclear testing in 1962 following a 3-year testing moratorium"

It refers to the situation of "Unhardened" electronics etc.

Let's continue...

From your source.

In keeping with your request, Mr. Chairman, I would next like to provide some additional details regarding the phenomenon of high-altitude EMP, how we protect against it, how we validate the hardness of military systems. I will keep this very brief, since Dr. Smith has already done a superb job on the details.

"EMP hardening protocols are described in numerous military standards and handbooks. There are user friendly computer codes available to facilitate system hardness design. EMP is well understood"

On a final note, high-altitude EMP does not distinguish between military and civilian systems. Unhardened infrastructure systems, such as commercial power grids, telecommunication networks, as we have discussed before, remain vulnerable to widespread outages and upsets due to high-altitude EMP. While DOD hardens their assets it deems vital, no comparable civilian programs exist...

I did. None of those prove that they are hardened against EMP. "User friendly computer codes available to facilitate system hardness design" does not mean they are. I have many programs available to me, but, I don't have them all.

Even if it was all about "the situation of "Unhardened" electronics etc" that suggests that there are indeed electronics that aren't hardened making the US susceptible to EMP attack.

Did you read this:

Yesterday we invited the intelligence community to provide us with their most up-to-date material on EMP threats. We received documents that were 10 years old, interestingly enough, written at that time by a member of our staff, who now is an expert with us, Peter Pry, who at that time was with the agency and the expert on EMP. We understand that no NIE has been issued on EMP since the 1980's, and this is 1997. We also understand that some of our EMP testing sets have been dismantled or are in disrepair.

10 year old documents would suggest that they did not keep up with r & d of EMP hardening. Unless of course you are suggesting that the had learned everything about it and there was nothing more to learn. I don't think you are. If the EMP testing sets have been dismantles or are in disrepair that would suggest that they are not using them.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by superman2012
reply to post by tooo many pills

 

We must attack Iran before China has active aircraft carriers.

Too late.

PS- ugh, I know, fox news. I just thought it was a cool picture though.

Not so fast...

China's new Aircraft carrier is missing one primary and critical ingredient.

"Aircraft"

The Ship was out on sea trials when photographed. It will be a while before they can launch and recover aircraft from it. So technically it's not an "Active Carrier"

From your source.

China bought the ship from the Ukraine in 1998 and spent years refurbishing it. It had no engines, weaponry or navigation systems when China acquired it.

Beijing is believed to be years away from being able to launch and recover aircraft from it as part of a carrier battle group

Sorry about that, I missed the word "active".

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by superman2012
Yes, you are right, oil is a commodity. Don't you think the US would love to have control over this?:

Energy resources in Iran consist of the third largest oil reserves and the second largest natural gas reserves in the world.

Could you provide us with a link for your source?
I'd like to review the rest of it.

Thanks.

edit on 31-1-2012 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)

Sure, here you go..please don't say this is a dodgy source too!

reply to post by superman2012


You forgot to address this part of the quote...

"While DOD hardens their assets it deems vital" no comparable civilian programs exist...

No biggy

Originally posted by beezzer
Can I just throw a question out there?

Why is it that the "doves" (versus the "warmongers") are te ones spouting off about a posible conflict with Iran?

Speaking as someone who would conceivably have their fanny in the line of fire, I would like to say "no" to war. (getting shot really sucks)

Frankly, I'm tired of war. I'm looking forward to peace. Not surrender. Peace.

The doves, see it as useless war mongering, the war mongers seem to want it to happen. If the "doves" can educate a warmonger than they slowly win. I hope any sane person says no to war, but, then you get the people that join a war and then claim they were just following orders. Not thinking for themself, not using their critical thinking skills, just following orders. It's sickening how people will turn violent and then look for any excuse.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by superman2012

 

You forgot to address this part of the quote...

"While DOD hardens their assets it deems vital" no comparable civilian programs exist...

No biggy

No, I didn't forget. Neither you or that file tells what is "vital".

What is vital? Life support over a program that runs a drone? Fresh water supply over the electronics in a tank? That is one thing they don't say. Unless they said it and I missed it, I assume life saving operations and you seem to assume military applications.

reply to post by superman2012

Originally posted by superman2012
Iran consist of the third largest oil reserves and the second largest natural gas reserves in the world.

You're source isn't Dodggy. But your claim is.

Same source

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by superman2012

 

Originally posted by superman2012
Iran consist of the third largest oil reserves and the second largest natural gas reserves in the world.

You're source isn't Dodggy. But your claim is.

Same source



That's what happens when you use wikipedia without checking right? Hahaha..oh well.

Still #4 proven oil reserves and #2 proven natural gas reserves. Claim wasn't dodgy, just inaccurate. Still something the US would be interested in? or not now?

reply to post by superman2012


Actually that kind of made me laugh at the both of us...


Here we are on ATS of all places and both of us are going to rely on the CIA to prove our points.

Oh, the Irony...

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by superman2012

 

Actually that kind of made me laugh at the both of us...

Here we are on ATS of all places and both of us are going to rely on the CIA to prove our points.

Oh, the Irony...

Oh gawd, I can't believe we couldn't taste the irony there. Starred you for pointing that out!

Originally posted by BobAthome

Originally posted by Tw0Sides

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by BobAthome

 

Bob...you know close to nothing about this so it's not right to mess with someone who lost family.
Split Infinity

Dont be mad at Bob.
You lost family in Nam, sorry to hear , but Bob didnt make up the BS story of Tonkin.
Your Government did.
Now their making up more BS about Iran.

And your all jacked up about it. Dont blame Bob when America lose more family members.

Blame your Government.

I appoligize to your ancestors,,all ancestors, both sides, my appoligies,,
But let the dead look after the dead,, we who are alive, must not let vietnam,,who by the way wanted too abopt the American Constitution yes thats right,,
but France would not let them.
Figure that out,, its just all so tangled, and i know you lost a Dynasty, a Royal Vietnamese Dynasty which everyone forgets,, but that is past ,,everyone has lost something,, lets just not loose anymore Dogs of War,,
on all sides..


Me.

I remember the day that one of my Fmily members left for Nam. He looked so good all dressed up and I loved the guy. He died trying to save another mans life...I will not go into details.

Vietnam was called a Police Action and the U.S. never went in with the attitude that we were going to do what needed to be done to win the War. This war could have lasted a grand total of 3 to 4 weeks had the U.S. used all means less Nuclear. The NVC were embolden that we would not launch attacks on the North and if you ever see the Movie...FLIGHT OF THE INTRUDER....that is a good picture of the reality on how targets were picked.

Johnson was an A$$#@&%! So was the development of the F-4 Fantom without guns and for a long time only had missles....a Gun Pod was latter installed on the F-4....a Heavy and way to fast plane for this type of war....this is also true of THUDS....F-105's....designed as interceptors of Soviet Nuclear Bombers. The only one true good thing that came out of this lesson was the development of the A-10 Thunderbolt or as commonly called...Warthog....for close troop support. The U.S. lost alot from this war but we learned lessons...valuble ones that have the U.S. Military prepared for actions on ground, sea and air as they EVOLVE...not as they are planned. THIS is the one very special ability the U.S. Military Branches share with each other as to such a great extent it is unrivalled...Interservice Communication Command and Control. Because of this integration...IRAN cannot hope to sneak attack or launch Missles...as EVERYTHING IS UNDER WATCH...and any hostile move would be obliterated before the Iranians even knew it had been. Split Infinity

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by Ophiuchus 13
But it will block global communications-boats-planes-NUKES and WILL make everybody look at themselves why sitting in silence... So the guns will remain local weapons will remain local, death wont be able to spread!

EMP

The US/West, Soviets/Russian and Chinese and any other power worth their salt have looked at this issue going back decades. Most if not all have worked on the hardening of their electronics against EMPs. Lately there has been a lot of talk and wild speculation [ I suspect Video Gamers] about how the US military would come to a screeching halt because of a EMP blast/release.

Think about it. The worlds Superpowers have war gamed various scenarios going back decades. The EMP issue has been gone over with a fine toothed comb. Just like the Pop-Culture "Anon Hackers" didn't invent the idea of hacking military systems.

The Russians, Chinese and the US/West have their primary systems/equipment hardened against such a situation.

I have to be careful about what I say about this....but I can say this...although it is not the same thing the analogy is sound. Notice how certain frequencies of sound can penetrate through walls while other frequencies cannot? The U.S. Navy uses Super Low Frequency Radio broadcasts to communicate with subs....although this is Radio Waves not Sound Waves. Electromagnetics has a variable frequency also.....not so easy to control or develop...but a frequency non the less. Split Infinity

Originally posted by superman2012


Have you been following this thread at all?

The hypothetical invasion of Iran by the US.

Not once did you state in your opening piece,ANYTHING about hypothetical.You are almost SURE its a done deal.....

Originally posted by superman2012
Right, the first move. The may have committed the first murders between the US and Iran, but, the US was supplying counter-insurgency training, operational intelligence on the battlefield, and weapons. Everything I had posted before.

Hmmmm,but still you have made the US,to be the full aggressors in this all.

Not only that you failed to give ALL the details.The Other countries supplying counter-insurgency training, operational intelligence on the battlefield, and weapons......

Again,making the US the ONLY bad guys in this all.

Ironic.

reply to post by sonnny1

I agree...too many people here are confusing what are PRUDENT ACTIONS that the U.S. Military is doing....and this leading to a DEFINATIVE WAR. That is not true.

The Chances of a U.S./Iranian war a remote at best. What would Iran have to gain by forcing the U.S. Militaries hand when IRAN ITSELF KNOWS....the only thing stopping Israel from Bombng Iranian Nuclear Sites is the UNITED STATES!

Iran knows it can't win a war with us and has made a tactical error in the form of their BIG MOUTHS! The only thing they could have said that would have been worse is...We have developed Nuclear Weapons! But treatening to close the Strait is a CLOSE SECOND! Split Infinity

It will be the most costly war since Vietnam - in lives and materiel. Iran has S-300 missiles, this means the USAF is going to be in a vulnerable position until they are neutralized, it is likely planes will be lost to this system. Iran also has Sunburn missiles, there is no way they won't use them and take out at least one USN capital ship, probably several. This conflict is going to hit the US hard - and unlike the Iraqi Army the Iranians are far more ideologically motivated. The Pentagon should anticipate these dangers, expect the pre-invasion airstrikes to be the biggest display of modern airpower the world has seen yet. I do feel though that the occupation will be much shorter than it was in Iraq. Iranian society has less competing groups and once the Islamists are eliminated we will help the dissidents take power and the situation will be more or less resolved. The whole operation should be seen as a reversal of the '79 revolution. Reality is always going to be more problematic than theory however.

Nuclear fears are overstated. We have very powerful conventional munitions (MOP, MOAB, thermobarics, etc) that obviate the need, and in the extremely unlikely event nukes are deployed they will be relatively clean small-scale tactical devices. The objective is regime change not annihilation.

Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by superman2012


Have you been following this thread at all?

The hypothetical invasion of Iran by the US.

Not once did you state in your opening piece,ANYTHING about hypothetical.You are almost SURE its a done deal.....

Originally posted by superman2012
Right, the first move. The may have committed the first murders between the US and Iran, but, the US was supplying counter-insurgency training, operational intelligence on the battlefield, and weapons. Everything I had posted before.

Hmmmm,but still you have made the US,to be the full aggressors in this all.

Not only that you failed to give ALL the details.The Other countries supplying counter-insurgency training, operational intelligence on the battlefield, and weapons......

Again,making the US the ONLY bad guys in this all.

Ironic.

I didn't state it was hypothetical, but, I'm sure my 10 year old would get this:
Iran War. How do you think it will lead to that and the possible outcome. Notice, How do you think?
Think: to employ one's mind rationally and objectively in evaluating or dealing with a given situation.


Yes, I made the US the aggressor. That is what I think. I gave as much detail as I wanted from anyone. If you want more detail, either read through this thread, or start your own.

Edit: the irony is lost on me, please explain.

The US will start the offensive and take the lead...as usual. I see conventional weapons used. The Iranians will probably just fight the US and NOT shoot any missles at Israel to keep it out of the conflict. You cannot attack if you are not attacked. That way US will fight a war while Israeli pilots would sit in their fighter jets and enjoy the fight...as usual. There will be high casualties on both sides as in any conflict and the Iranians will try to hijack and crash as many "predator" drones as possible. War is meaningless..people die for their governments quarrel. Sickening when you think this is the 21st century