We've had enough, it's time to raise your own kids, teachers say

As a parent of 3 pretty good kids, I have to agree with the teachers. They are not there to teach life values and morals or be referee in a fight. In today's system we have given them all the responsibilities and stripped them of any authority. When I was in school, teachers could paddle a student as a last resort. Although IMO some kids could use a good swat, I'm glad they did away with that because some teachers would use it to an extreme. Didn't do your homework? 2 licks with a paddle. Some of those were custom made to get the most pain per swing and those teachers would swing like they were playing baseball. Two handed grip and try to raise you off the ground. Kids do not respect adults because they've been taught "if someone touches you we'll sue or have them arrested for assault". They know they can get by with almost anything, because no adult will stop them for fear of jail and being labeled as a child abuser. Sometimes I walk to meet my 11 year old when school gets out, we live only 4 blocks from there, and I see kids as young as 5 or 6 cussing each other, or a group of 3-4 picking on one kid. When I tell them to quit talking like that or break up the bullying, they look at me like I've lost my mind. Actually had a kid about 8 tell me to go get fu---ed. Until parents step up and realize school is not a dumping ground for their under disciplined, mouthy brats and take responsibility for raising a decent human being, society is going down hill. Terrifying to think these are the ones who will grow up to shape the future.

reply to post by Flavian


I agree with everything you've said, although I disagree that it's not that easy to fix.

Just look at the chartered school program that some states have implemented. The quality of education in those districts has drastically improved over short periods of time by focusing on the ability of the teacher to do their job.

~Tenth

Originally posted by NightGypsy
reply to post by Flavian

 

For schools to be truly effective, you would need also need to address the discipline issue. The simple fact is that teachers are scared to discipline children because of some of the laws that have been introduced and because any action leaves you open to suspension and being sued. Until this is addressed, nothing will change. Sorry for the rant but this is something that has directly affected me for years and just plain winds me up!

I agree with what you're saying for the most part, but the problem is more complicated than that in my neck of the woods, anyway. Our city probably has one of the worst school systems in our state. The kids are out of control in the classrooms and the district and the state have largely curtailed the teachers' ability to inject their own creativity into classroom instruction. Everything is centered around standardized tests and making sure the students pass them so that any given school will receive continued funds.

It has been my observation that teachers here are beginning to throw their hands up in frustration and give up. Most assuredly, a child with behavioral issues is alleged to have ADHD and they have to be treated differently due to this diagnosis. Many teachers I encounter these days don't have the balls to demand respect from their students, and conversely, the parents are too lazy to take responsibility and do nothing but blame their kids' problems on poor teaching in the classroom. It's a vicious circle. All I know is that school these days is a far cry from what it was when I was young. Book reports, class projects, oral reports are quickly becoming a thing of the past. What a disaster.

i agree on many levels but seriously parents aren't too lazy as much as they have their hands tied by the same government, when it comes to discipline.

reply to post by NightGypsy


Unfortunately you are correct. Tell the kids they will have to do a written presentation and they visibly baulk at the idea!

Technology plays its part too though. School work should always be hand written, with the exception of course work for external examinations. Calculators are allowed in maths! That completely destroys the point of the subject in the first place. I automatically used to deduct marks for word processed work also as it is basically cheating - when you can simply tick spell check you are defeating the purpose for education. I realise some of these views may upset people but all i can say is i worked as a teacher. I have seen the results first hand.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by wutz4tom

 

The problem with today's teachers is they all think every child should be on Ritalin because the standard of a proper decent education has left many schools. Kids are getting bored because teachers are not stimulating their student's thought processes. Kids need to think for themselves, not told how to think. Half of the teachers are doing such a crappy job while the other half well deserve a pay rise. Teachers training colleges now need to set the standards alot higher and get back to basics.

The amount of homework kids are getting these days is appauling due to lack of proper teaching skills.

As for the parents, it's a cross between so many who are from non-English speaking backgrounds v both parents having to work long hours due to the high cost of living in this country v parents who just don't give a crap.

The whole system stinks.

edit on 30-1-2012 by bluemirage5 because: (no reason given)

Blue Mirage you seem to be pointing the finger at teachers, which in my opinion is unfair. Before children are able to think for themselves they need to be taught the tools of critical thinking. This is a long and difficult task, in which the teachers must negotiate structural organizations such as the public education system and stakeholders such as the parents and the students.

Teaching is an undervalued occupation in this society. Anyone can polish a diamond, who will polish the turds?

I do agree with you about Ritalin though.

From what I am seeing here, both the teachers and parents are misdirecting their frustration and anger towards each other. The system itself has pitted the two groups of people against each other when the real culprit goes on about their business. The teachers are not the parents enemy and the parents are not the teachers enemy. Once both sides realize that the DOE is the real enemy, maybe we could work together and solve the issue. The problem is the system itself, not the teachers and not the parents. If the system was functioning properly things like discipline would be less of a problem if everyone was on a solid fundamental foundation.

reply to post by wutz4tom


The teachers are right, in that they are currently nothing more than "whipping posts" for parents who have blindly decided that they, (teachers) are the sole party responsible for all of their children's failures, when nothing could be farther from the truth. Do get me wrong, I don't just blame the parents either. There's a third party involved here and they're called "Corporate America."

I believe that at least half of blame belongs squarely upon those responsible for wage and benefit suppression in the workplace which has basically eliminated the concept of single income families. It wasn't like this when I was a kid. My dad worked, my mom ran the house and took care to see that my siblings and I did our homework and stayed out of trouble. At that time, we were a typical middle-class family. My family was not overburdened with debt, we had medical insurance through the unionized workplace where my father was employed and we didn't blame teachers, we cherished them.

Anyone ever ask themselves; "What happened to the days when one parent worked and the other stayed home, insuring that their children had parental supervision after school? Remember, back when parents had time to help their kids with homework? Remember, back before the days of both parents working, (some with multiple jobs) and neither one getting home with an ounce of energy left to do anything other than find a bath and a bed?

Well, I can tell you this; Those changes didn't happen by accident! These policies are the direct result of "corporate mentality," where the one and only objective is to provide profits to the shareholders, negating all other concerns including the negative side effects that are now permeating american society.

The proof is clearly in the pudding. Single income family households are almost non-existant today, wages have stagnated to the point where it now takes at least two incomes just to keep the parents from drowning in debt and sometimes two isn't enough, employer based medical insurance is rapidly becoming a thing of the past, our children basically supervise themselves from the time they get out of school until their parents get home from work, (sometimes late at night) and families are being cast out of their homes by fraudulent banking practices.

Needless to say, you can't make those kinds of changes without expecting that they will have some very negative side effects upon our society. But somehow, all of the youth degradation we are now witnessing as a direct result of these policies is the "fault of out teachers?" PLEASE!

Profits up, family values down, go figure!

Originally posted by Flatfish
reply to post by wutz4tom

 

The teachers are right, in that they are currently nothing more than "whipping posts" for parents who have blindly decided that they, (teachers) are the sole party responsible for all of their children's failures, when nothing could be farther from the truth. Do get me wrong, I don't just blame the parents either. There's a third party involved here and they're called "Corporate America."

I believe that at least half of blame belongs squarely upon those responsible for wage and benefit suppression in the workplace which has basically eliminated the concept of single income families. It wasn't like this when I was a kid. My dad worked, my mom ran the house and took care to see that my siblings and I did our homework and stayed out of trouble. At that time, we were a typical middle-class family. My family was not overburdened with debt, we had medical insurance through the unionized workplace where my father was employed and we didn't blame teachers, we cherished them.

Anyone ever ask themselves; "What happened to the days when one parent worked and the other stayed home, insuring that their children had parental supervision after school? Remember, back when parents had time to help their kids with homework? Remember, back before the days of both parents working, (some with multiple jobs) and neither one getting home with an ounce of energy left to do anything other than find a bath and a bed?

Well, I can tell you this; Those changes didn't happen by accident! These policies are the direct result of "corporate mentality," where the one and only objective is to provide profits to the shareholders, negating all other concerns including the negative side effects that are now permeating american society.

The proof is clearly in the pudding. Single income family households are almost non-existant today, wages have stagnated to the point where it now takes at least two incomes just to keep the parents from drowning in debt and sometimes two isn't enough, employer based medical insurance is rapidly becoming a thing of the past, our children basically supervise themselves from the time they get out of school until their parents get home from work, (sometimes late at night) and families are being cast out of their homes by fraudulent banking practices.

Needless to say, you can't make those kinds of changes without expecting that they will have some very negative side effects upon our society. But somehow, all of the youth degradation we are now witnessing as a direct result of these policies is the "fault of out teachers?" PLEASE!

Profits up, family values down, go figure!

you've brought up an interesting point that hadn't been mentioned...That the economic times we live in calls for one or both parents to be away from home. In cases where both parents are working away from home, that must certainly be a factor in how the kids are raised.
Regardless of how good the intentions are of thoses left in charge, one parent or a sitter can only do so much.
Thnx

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by wutz4tom

 

No, you are 100% correct in saying that parents need to step up. It is the reason i left teaching - i wanted to teach rather than administer to the pastoral care of my pupils, Frankly, that is the parents job. I also got sick of parents marching and making threats because somebody had dared to discipline their "little angel" (read as total scrote).

I have witnessed on several occasions school secretaries being punched by angry parents because they had the "cheek" to call them asking to attend a meeting at school to discuss their off springs discipline.

If 2 kids were fighting, you could not lay hands on them. You had to get in the middle and if you got hit in the cross fire, so be it - your fault for being a teacher. I could go on but the point is parents need to stand up. Their job is not to be friends with their children - it is to raise them to have respect for others and to get on in the world. God help us in 20 years when this lot are running things after having had a lifetime of getting everything the easy way.

Personally I think we are seeing the result of a failed process right now...and it will become even more clear as time goes on.

Lack of discipline is just another word for neglect. Neglect so severe that parents don't even care when their kids make them look like bad parents.

Look I just graduated highschool not to long ago and could go on for days about how much of its a total joke. I learned more from my mother and on my own then I was ever taught at school. Most teachers are subpar to begin with and on several occasions I found myself having to correct teachers mid sentence because they were in fact wrong. It needs to be handled on both ends and if the teachers do not like it then do not teach simple as that.

reply to post by Brandon88


Thanks for confirming what some of us oldtimers thought to be the case.Alot has changed in 30 or more years ...

reply to post by AnIntellectualRedneck


Yes and interference from the system may have made a challenging task even more difficult. Preparing our children for the real world so as to give them half a chance.
Thnx

When teachers get disciplined, they get sent to a building where they just sit there doing nothing and get paid their full salary. Unions can be difficult at times.

Charter schools would definitely help. If students can choose their school they'll more than likely perform better overall. Plus it puts more pressure on schools/teachers, which is more capitalistic than many teachers would like it would seem.

Dont know if this has already been said but I'm gonna say it anyway.

A generation ago one parent went to work while the other stayed at home to RAISE THE KIDS. These days both parent are forced to work and only see there children for a few hours in the evening and so dont have the time.
Little jonny gets sent to bed where he watches tv which will most definately be showing violence and god knows what else.

Yep. this will lead to more laws, more children being criminalised, more parents being prosecuted, MORE CONTROL.

Its a system, dont be fooled.

reply to post by wutz4tom


Gotta say I agree with the teachers on this one, and heres why-

1) I am the mother of a 15year old girl, I have had full custody of her since she was born, and raised her mostly on my own-so I have experience as a parent.

2) I have taught school in three different school districts for the last 5 years, so I have experience as a teacher.

But I also have to be honest and say most of the problem isnt the kids fault, and heres why-

Mom or Dad or both get up and are rushing around to get to work, getting little Johnny breakfast and off to school. Little Johnnie is complaining, dragging his feet, all the normal things kids do- instead of giving little Johnny a smack on the butt, and getting him going, Mom and Dad try to talk him into getting dressed, eating, and into the car. This is where it snow balls, little Johnny realizes that he can talk his way out of things with no repricussions, and that is the crux of the entire situation-there are No Repricussions for alot of kids out there.

This doesnt even touch on the ones who live in abusive homes or have parents who are drug addicts, alcholics etc, or simply have no one who cares what happens to them.

When I was a child, if I misbehaved I got my butt spanked by Mom, didnt matter where we were or what we were doing or who was there-you got it right in front of god and everybody. Daddy on the other hand heaven rest his soul was wicked with an 8 foot buggy whip, he could reach out and touch you from what seemed miles away.

The end result- I didnt misbehave, I didnt talk back to my elders, I respected my betters, I didnt over indulge in alchol, drugs, or other contraband; and I am now a productive member of society, who has respect for other people, is interested in life and learning, and has raised a happy healthy well behaved child, who continues to surprise me every day.
But the thing I kept telling myself the entire time I was alone raising this child is " she is my responsibility", this was my child no one elses, it wasnt my Mothers place to raise her, or some teacher in class's place to raise her- it was mine. It was also MY responsibility to discipline her so that she behaved, and learned to behave in public. I have no problem spanking my child- even now at 15, almost 16. She still gets appropriate punishment when required.

Kids cant raise themselves it IS the parents responsibility and NO ONE ELSES.

Teachers need to help with extra curricular stuff

to get to know the kids in a different seting

about time this happend. The parents need to wake up and stop watching tv some time. I also thinkthe teachers should be given more power leave it up to the teachers to make them how the state see fits.

I'm going to chime in with my thoughts seeing as I am currently an educator in a defunct and broken system.

I left a good paying job a few years ago because of the reasons that many educators in the article mentioned (coupled with major family issues). I realized after two years of working jobs outside of my chosen field that I really miss working with the kids, so I decided to get back into teaching by substituting a few days a week. I started out at the high school in my city, and realized that the education that these kids were receiving (both at school and at home) were sub-par at best. Many of my colleagues were at wit's end to figure out how to creatively teach a subject and also teach to a test at the same time. The kids in these classrooms were out of control. The lack of respect for both the teacher, and their classmates was appalling and disgusting. I once again was deciding whether or not I wanted to continue my chosen career path.

I switched to a small town school a few towns over, and I love it. It's small, it's intimate, and the kids get real instruction. The parents in this small community support not only the kids, but the teachers 100% of the time. If a kid gets in trouble at school, they better have a strong behind, because it is almost certain that they will be punished at home. Sure, there are a few parents that are over protective ("Not MY little Johnny!"), but for the most part, I've seen in this district, a partnership between parents and teachers which is not seen in larger districts. It's reinvigorated my love of teaching and my love of working with kids.

My view on this whole situation is that, as another poster mentioned, the top brass are turning parents and teachers against each other, while they keep pushing policies that are not conducive to a healthy learning environment. The DoE needs to go: no if's, and's, or but's. I would wager a large sum of money on the fact that many of them haven't stepped foot into a classroom in a very long time, if at all. It's once again: "We know what is best for your children, so don't question us or our motives."

My next view is the lack of parental involvement. While my school is a very good survey of what happens when parents and teachers work together, it is a rarity, unfortunately. The economy could actually be a deciding factor in parental involvement. When you have two parents (or one parent) working 2-3 jobs to put food on the table, that doesn't leave much room to make sure the child has proper guidance, socialization, homework help, etc. In that respect, I feel for the parents. Teachers have had to become the mother and the father, the listening ear, the counselor, etc., through no choice of their own. On the other hand, you have parents who blame teachers for all of their bad parenting, lack of involvement, etc. There is a cartoon that I have seen that compares parents and teachers from the 60's and parents and teachers of today. One scene depicts the parents reaming out their child for their poor grades, and the other depicts the teacher being reamed out for the same thing. It's no wonder that some teachers do the bare minimum and pass everybody. The emotional stress of dealing with parents blaming you for their child's own faults is daunting. It has become an era of passing a kid to avoid a confrontation with unruly parents. That shouldn't be the case.

I guess my final view is that of the tenure system and the way that older teachers keep their jobs and younger, "hungry" teachers get the axe first. In my opinion, the tenure system has the potential to breed apathy and underachieving among "seasoned" teachers. This isn't to say that the tenure system doesn't have some sort of merit, because it does. It should be restructured to assure teachers proper defenses in the case of false claims, inner-school politics, etc. It shouldn't be treated as a guarantee of continued employment.

Teachers that I talk to are scared to death of the possibility of having their salaries tied directly to student success in the classroom. There are factors that are completely out of the teacher's control, and it seems that many states want a "one-size-fits-all" approach to this standard. My home state of New York is now telling districts that they will not have access to funds unless they enact a teacher evaluation system that is tied to student success (at least, that is my current understanding). These bureaucrats have never stepped foot into a classroom, and have no idea of the challenges and trials that we have to deal with on a daily basis.

Quite honestly, the entire system needs an overhaul, and seeing the success of many charter schools, those that aren't influenced by the bureaucracy, it makes me wonder if that is the way to go. I've seen many of my colleagues go on to have very successful careers in these schools, without being under the government's thumb.

Just my $.02

-TS

Parents and teachers have to step up. Our education system in america, thanks to no child left behind has turned to S**t. We already have a bunch of dumb americans, and now we're about to flood america with all the highschool kids who don't know how to learn. All they know how to do is memorize, and cheat. Schools today are a joke. Colleges have turned into businesses, in the business of raping college students out of their money. Wait to go america, lets screw all the kids getting educated, because all we think about is the short term.