Catholic Church Strikes back at Obama Administration

On January 20, the Obama Administration postponed a decision which would force Catholic institutions to buy birth control and some abortion inducing drugs. This meant that religious institutions, like Catholic colleges and hospitals, or other Christian institutions would be compelled to violate their conscience.

Today January 29, the Catholic Church took a step to battle this decision by reading a letter in thousands of perishes, to their congregation denouncing this decision as an attack on their religious freedom. Each bishop personally sent the letter out, and so there were some local variations.

Businessinsider.com

By Michael Brendan Dougherty

Jan. 29, 2012, 2:05 PM

To give an analogy, it would be like the government mandating that all delis, even Kosher delis, serve pork products and then justifying it by saying that protein is healthy, and many Jews who don't follow Kosher laws and many non-Jews go to those delis. The law wouldn't technically ban Jews from owning delis, but it would effectively ban their ability to run them according to their conscience.

This may have a deciding blow against Obama come election time, I bet this gets reversed rather quickly.

Hmm.. I wonder if the counter strike will be the IRS and tax status hassles for awhile over a political statement? It's a reach, but when has that slowed the government down from using a pretext to make an adversary's life miserable lately? It's becoming the order of the day, it would seem. Great catch....

This isn't the first time the church has had the conviction to stand up to the government. Recently they were threatened legally if they gave food and aid to illegal immigrants. They did so anyways. Just like they allowed african americans to be treated in their hospitals at a time when the the government ordered them not to. People like to knock on the catholic church, but they do a lot of good for people. I don't see any logical reason why they should have to offer abortions. It's definitely not the government's place to regulate how people should help each other...

Wait, the government is forcing church members to take drugs? I think you may have left out some very pertinent information here, the white house is only saying that People need these drugs if they sign up for the insurance policys offed right?

So they can buy other insurance if I am not mistaken... Not all insurance makes this a requirement.

Besides we could do with a few less brain washed religoise nuts, I say bring on the birth controll.

I don't understand (again) Obama's thought process here.

He makes the Church hospital provide insurance for its workers and the insurance reuires the Church to pay the full cost of contraceptive methods. As pointed out, this is like having mandatory markmanship classes for Quakers.

It's hardly surprising that the Church leaders would complain in public. If it's a "strike back" it's fairly mild.

But what does our President get from this? He will lose some Catholic voters, a group that supported him in 2008. He cements the pro-choice crowd, but he wasn't at risk for losing them. What's his benefit?

The Obama Administration shouldnt back down from this one bit...

We cull the deer population in many places due to them causing issues, so whats wrong with decreasing the breeding of a group of religious cult people full of hate and prejudice who cause way more issues than deer?

Birth control for the win here!

reply to post by HangTheTraitors

I was hoping for something that would explain Obama's reasoning, but if you want to talk about culling the herd of religious cultists, we can.

But you seem to be arguing backwards. Think for a moment. If the staunch Catholics refuse birth control, and the more secular Catholics accept it, the staunch Catholics will grow and the secular Catholics will shrink, just the opposite of what you seem to be calling for.

OK, now that we've gotten rid of that, why do you think Obama is doing this?

Screw the Catholic church man.

How many deaths from HIV and other STD's have they caused in Africa?



They need to move with the times and help protect and prevent people from catching something or having an unwanted pregnancy.

Originally posted by blupblup
Screw the Catholic church man.

How many deaths from HIV and other STD's have they caused in Africa?



They need to move with the times and help protect and prevent people from catching something or having an unwanted pregnancy.

ya its called abstinence.


help protect ,,,ya its called abstinence.

and prevent people ,,,,called free choice,,

from catching something ,,,its called dont do it,,,

or having an unwanted pregnancy.,,,,get the picture,,

or is sexual freedom still the rage?,
,besides birth control pill actually helps women with there periods,,,
but i aint going there,,
had three sisters,, growing up,, in a catholic family,,
nuff said.

Me.

Originally posted by blupblup
Screw the Catholic church man.

How many deaths from HIV and other STD's have they caused in Africa?



They need to move with the times and help protect and prevent people from catching something or having an unwanted pregnancy.

Dont be such a dolt you read a dime a dozen comment and come on here and make a pathetic generalism thats a total myth and unhelpful talk about not seeing the wood for the trees actually THE CATHJOLIC CHURCH OPERATES MORE CLINICS AND MEDICAL INSTITUTIONS THAN ANY OTHER ORGANISATION IN THE WORLD !!!!!!! THERES MORE.................what the hell are you on about 'they' have caused how ill informed and bitterly blimkered are you? science actually backs benedict and the catholic church on his condom stance amazing how 5hit can be taken way out of context and distorted you need to get aw2ay from the pro choice propagandists who have been peddling crap and disinformation purely for getting bills put through governement.
www.ad2000.com.au...
"Edward C. Green, director of the AIDS Prevention Research Project, Harvard Centre for Population and Development Studies, said that 'the evidence confirms the Pope is correct in his assessment that condom distribution exacerbates the problem of AIDS. Or to put it a better way, the best evidence we have supports the Pope's comments.'"
........................................"'Condom promoting international organisations such as UNAIDS are demonising the Catholic Church unfairly. In fact in countries where the Catholic Church is strong, there IS LOWER HIV than places where the Catholic Church is not.'" SO YOU GET THAT? WHERE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS STRONG HIV IS LOWER SO BEFORE YOU JUMP ON THE ANTI CATHOLIC TROLLING BANDWAGON READ UP
USE YOUR OWN MIND DONT BE A SHEEPLE

Originally posted by BobAthome
ya its called abstinence.

Uh huh.... there's also such things as hormones and reality and life.
People have sex, that much we know after a few thousand years of studying people.
If they're going to have sex, why not protect them?

and prevent people ,,,,called free choice,,

Yes it is, and free choice extends to contraception

from catching something ,,,its called dont do it,,,

No... it's called protection.

Don't have sex??

What kind of weird, prudish attitude do you have? Seriously?

People have sex.... lots of young people have sex... it's best that they are safe and protected from disease and pregnancy, rather than just saying "don't do it" and hoping for the best.

or having an unwanted pregnancy.,,,,get the picture,,

Yes I do.... you have no clue about the way the world works or about what people get up to in their bedrooms.

or is sexual freedom still the rage?,
,

Dunno.... sex is though!!

I doubt that'll ever go out of fashion

reply to post by cuchullainuk777




No... you have literally no clue.... you're the one peddling BS and disinfo.

Sheesh..... "condoms do no good"

You're off your rocker man.

How effective are they? It's wise not to overstate your case. The current systematic review of the literature on this question published by Cochrane found 14 observational studies (because it's unethical to do a randomised trial where you actively stop people using condoms, since you know that they work but just want to find out how well). These studies generally looked at HIV transmission in stable couples where one partner had HIV. Many of them looked at transfusion patients and haemophiliacs. Overall, rates of HIV infection were 80% lower in the partners who reported always using a condom, compared to those who said they never did. 80% is pretty good.

ABC is a widely used prevention acronym in Africa: abstain, be [faithful], [use a] condom. Picking out one effective measure and actively campaigning against it is plainly destructive, just as telling people to abstain doesn't make everyone abstain, and telling people to use condoms won't make everyone use them. But Ratzinger has proclaimed: "The most effective presence on the front in the battle against HIV/Aids is the Catholic church and her institutions."

This is ludicrous. You, the Catholic church, is the only major influential international political organisation that actively tells people not to do something that works – on a huge scale. Your own figures show that your numbers are growing in Africa, even faster than the population does.

I'm happy for you to suggest abstention. But sabotaging an effective intervention which prevents a disease that kills 2 million people a year makes you a serious global public health problem.

www.guardian.co.uk...

reply to post by blupblup
I stand by the truth so im tempted to respond to you we are at opposite ends of the spectrum so whether i could be bothered getting into a tennis match ?You quoting something by the UK Guardian is like the final straw the paper that ass licks jihad loving muslims, every wacky European human right court case,besides you completely fudged the facts i posted that undermined categorically your catholic trolling soundbites so adieu THE GUARDIAN WANNA KNOW WHO YOU ARE QUOTING THEN WATCH THIS
www.youtube.com...

Since no one seems to be willing to answer the question, I'll give it a shot.

Obama has no earthly idea how the US is supposed to work or what made it into the superpower it is/was. In a mere 200 years, the United States went from a rag-tag bunch of outgunned, outmanned, outtrained common folk fighting tyranny from a world power to the world power, militarily, financially, and culturally. We did it through freedoms for citizens, controlled capitalism, and respect for others.

Now we have gone to socialistic entitlements, disdain for the military, corporatism, control of others lives, and attacks on anyone who thinks differently from the way we do. I am frankly amazed we still exist as a country.

Here's the facts:

• Those who choose to believe in Catholicism do so of their own free will.
  
• In this country, people are free to believe what they wish, not bound to agree with you.
  
• The tenets of any religion are not a'la carte, and are not up for debate. They are what they are, and if you do not believe them, you are in the wrong religion. Find another.
  
• If you do not agree with someone else's decision on religion, you have the right to not join them, not the right to make them disappear.
  
• It is morally wrong in my opinion to force one's own world views onto another. It appears only acceptable when the ones doing the forcing are the ones being listened to; if listening to those having beliefs forced onto them, that opinion would be in the vast majority.
  
• The Catholics I know (few, I will admit) are adamant about their beliefs.
  
• Obama is, by this proposal, forcing compliance on a major unsettled political debate onto a group that is opposed to his viewpoint.
  
• People will remember this when they stand alone in that voting booth.

Taken all together, that means that Obama is now so assured that his way is the only way that he feels perfectly justified in telling others their beliefs, their moral convictions, their actions, their lifestyle, their very spirituality is wrong. Considering the proximity to the election, he is obviously so segregated from the average person, so alienated from the diverse culture of his many constituents, so oblivious to his role in government as to consider himself as some sort of royalty above and beyond the will of those who elected him for a temporary term of office as well as the founding document that gives him his powers.

He is, by this proposal, violating his Oath of Office. That is called "treason" in the vernacular.

Simple logic dictates that he should be ousted easily in the general election... but alas, it seems simple logic does not always apply in today's political climate. Even if he were to be voted out, Mitt Romney, who is looking more and more like his coming opponent, is not much different in attitude toward governmental regulation and control of the masses.

If birth control can be mandated, regulating sex becomes possible. Those who see this as a condonement of free sex, please remember that.

TheRedneck

1. Catholicism is a religion

2. When religion moves into secular institutions such as colleges and hospitals, those that are public, paid by taxpayers funds, wholly or partiarly, etc, they must abide by secular laws of the land, or only discriminations, dissatisfactions and social uphevals will arise to the detriment of society.

3. Religion must not attempt to take over the secular institution of the People. That is what TRUE freedom of worship within society means. Secular gov too must NEVER instrude into religion's space,such as Churches, Temples, Mosques, etc, for they are sacred and sacrosanct.

4. Private enterprises such as shops or restarants are not Churches or religious institution. They have the freedom of private enterprise to do as they wish so long as it does not use make use of public funds or caused any social harm within that private sphere and others have choices to patronise or not to at such establishments.

5. May the Catholic religious faithful restrain the Catholic extremists. Extremism and exclusivity eliteness ANYWHERE must be nipped in the bud before it hurt and harm innocents. Logic must rule in this day and age. Mankind had suffered enough.

The insignificant nobody me humbly apologise if my post had caused offense, for all I seek is rationality and truth

reply to post by Daedal

....Obama Administration postponed a decision which would force ....

Key word here is "force".

I am tired of the govt forcing stuff upon us, whatever the issue. Yeah, we got "change" alright. It has been forced down our throat. We have a bully government.

At the rate we are going we are all going to be forced into FEMA camps.

We are losing freedoms as the clock ticks.

I will lose respect for the Church if they roll over and take it. I don't respect anyone who is bashing their right to protest this, either.

Originally posted by Daedal
On January 20, the Obama Administration postponed a decision which would force Catholic institutions to buy birth control and some abortion inducing drugs. This meant that religious institutions, like Catholic colleges and hospitals, or other Christian institutions would be compelled to violate their conscience.

Today January 29, the Catholic Church took a step to battle this decision by reading a letter in thousands of perishes, to their congregation denouncing this decision as an attack on their religious freedom. Each bishop personally sent the letter out, and so there were some local variations.

Businessinsider.com

By Michael Brendan Dougherty

Jan. 29, 2012, 2:05 PM

To give an analogy, it would be like the government mandating that all delis, even Kosher delis, serve pork products and then justifying it by saying that protein is healthy, and many Jews who don't follow Kosher laws and many non-Jews go to those delis. The law wouldn't technically ban Jews from owning delis, but it would effectively ban their ability to run them according to their conscience.

This may have a deciding blow against Obama come election time, I bet this gets reversed rather quickly.

Or better yet, make mosques serve bacon.

mmmmmmmmmmmmm. . . . baaaacon. . . . . *drool*

Ahem, sorry.

This issue is DOA. Unless Obama hates catholics. . . .

reply to post by beezzer


Making mosques or synagogues serve bacon, and forcing their worshipers to eat it would be a huge event. I might pay to go watch

A simple response that I believe will work is for the bishops throw it back to the President and tell him that he mandates this every Catholic Hospital and School in the United States will be promptly closed and remained closed indefinitely.

The implications of doing that would be enormous.

I am Catholic and if the Church isn't going to practice what they preach they will lose alot of their congregation.

Originally posted by HangTheTraitors
The Obama Administration shouldnt back down from this one bit...

We cull the deer population in many places due to them causing issues, so whats wrong with decreasing the breeding of a group of religious cult people full of hate and prejudice who cause way more issues than deer?

Birth control for the win here!

What is wrong? Specifically? It's the United States Constitution that is the problem, though this President as well as the previous one pay THAT particular problem no attention at all.

When Obama can decree the 1st Amendment null and void with all the precedent and meaning it carries, then he can FORCE the Church to do his bidding as Hitler once did in his time with the Catholic Church within Occupied zones. Until then, the President needs voted out....and I don't care who takes office anymore, as long as it isn't HIM for a second term. Our nation just can't take it.