Getting off of oil.

reply to post by boncho

I didn't say it was just around the corner. However, it is possible and could come a lot sooner without the con that is being perpetrated. Why would me researching it more change the facts. It can be done and should be done as soon as possible. Technological revolutions can come very quickly. Steam trains to space flight in 50 years. Exponential increase in technological advances says 10 years is easily achievable with the political will.


I have seen you accused of a number of things and thought it wasn't true. I'm rapidly changing that view. What purpose does it serve hanging around here encouraging people to be pessimistic about alternatives to oil? Why are you so desperate to present the idea that we are stuck with oil? If you aren't paid to do it then I'm very sad for you.

reply to post by Pimander

I'm rapidly changing that view. What purpose does it serve hanging around here encouraging people to be pessimistic about alternatives to oil?

Pessimistic and realistic are two different things. As I said, marketing for alternatives is different than actual application. Off hand I can think of a number of good alternative energy projects that are feasible, that are profitable, but in no way would they eliminate a dependence for oil.

After the waste of tax dollars with green programs, I don't understand why people aren't just a tad more critical at this idea that we can reshape the way resources are used overnight....

It could happen... But there is no technology capable of it right now. And the plastic/solvent issue is far to great to give up petroleum any time soon.

The reason I say look into the issue further, is because it is much more difficult to produce all the junk we use daily than most people like to admit.

Originally posted by nyk537
Are there people out there who actually believe that we could just stop using oil?

People can't be that stupid....can they?

Can they?

This isn't stupid at all. Convert all vehicles to CNG. Encourage farmers to grow industrial Hemp, and any product now made from petroleum could be made from the Hemp Fibers, all plastics could be eliminated. Lubrication oils could all be of the Syntactic variety. It could be done, but will Humanity ever demand it?

reply to post by autowrench

Oh hemp. I think that all sterted with Dupont and industrial espionage to promote Nylonand other products. Dupont bribed the government to ban hemp if I remember rightly, otherwise things might be easier now.

Originally posted by autowrench

Originally posted by nyk537
Are there people out there who actually believe that we could just stop using oil?

People can't be that stupid....can they?

Can they?

This isn't stupid at all. Convert all vehicles to CNG. Encourage farmers to grow industrial Hemp, and any product now made from petroleum could be made from the Hemp Fibers, all plastics could be eliminated. Lubrication oils could all be of the Syntactic variety. It could be done, but will Humanity ever demand it?

CNG is hydrocarbons.

Which is currently devastating nice areas of land using fracking to extract gas.

And I have already discussed hemp on this board, there is no way all the hemp in the world would replace oil for plastics, and then you have that solvent issue still...

Too many people have died over the oil companies, I think its safe to say easily over 500,000...

Originally posted by namEniks
Too many people have died over the oil companies, I think its safe to say easily over 500,000...

Any consequences of an oil economy rests On the people that consume it doesn't it?

reply to post by boncho
Exactly and as consumers we need to pressurise for alternatives. we don't need to be voices looking for reasons to keep oil. Yes we may need some but we don't need to be this dependent on it, or it's price. Any progress is a great thing. If you are right, we will use some oil still. If we are right, that amount will fall and faster than you want members to believe.

"It is really quite amazing by what margins competent but conservative
scientists and engineers can miss the mark, when they start with the
preconceived idea that what they are investigating is impossible. When
this happens, the most well-informed men become blinded by their
prejudices and are unable to see what lies directly ahead of them."
- Arthur C. Clarke, 1963

The psychology of this is important. In sport it is about positivity. Pessimism is always the mental state of the loser. The positive thought that we can achieve the seemingly impossible is the stuff of greatness. Do you think Roger Bannister believed he couldn't run a mile in less than 4 minutes? No he dreamed the "impossible" dream. He achieved the seemingly impossible. WE WILL SUCCEED.



We are the optimists. We are the ones who believe that we should strive for and WILL achieve more than what to the weaker minded seems possible. We have the mindset of the winner, the mindset of the achiever.

Also, as people of knowledge, we have a responsibility to society.

"Communities tend to be guided less than individuals by conscience and a sense of responsibility. How much misery does this fact cause mankind! It is the source of wars and every kind of oppression, which fill the earth with pain, sighs and bitterness." - Albert Einstein, 1934

Arthur C. Clarke formulated the following three "laws" of prediction:

1. When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
   
2. The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
   
3. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
   

Just as 640k isn't really enough for anyone (Bill Gates in the 80's), and the global market for computers is definitely greater than 5 (Thomas Watson of IBM in the 50's) -- so is it that predicting the future of technology is hard as heck.

So hard, in fact, that the world's foremost experts fail routinely at prediction.

Clarke's third law is probably the most well known, but his first and second I find to be the most useful for anyone who is creative and wants to invent and affect the future in profound ways. To create what seemed to be impossible is truly the essence of an innovative, valuable act.

SOURCE: garry.posterous.com...


"New and stirring things are belittled because if they are not belittled,
the humiliating question arises, 'Why then are you not taking part in
them?' " - H. G. Wells


Why are you not taking part Boncho?

Our oil addiction will most probably be the greatest issue of 21st century. I dont know why is this problem so ignored in mainstream media nowadays. Global warming is simply not enough as an incentive to get us off of oil. Peak oil, on the other hand, will be. It is a threat not just to "polar bears", but to modern civilisation as we know it.

Also, getting off of oil is not enough, as the OP implies. We will need to find a way to MANUFACTURE hydrocarbons cheaply and en masse, because our ever growing global economy is greatly dependent on it. Abundant and cheap energy is a must.

Will we manage to build enough nuclear reactors and renewables in time to substitute for this essential resource? That is the question.

Originally posted by boncho
Very simple. This thread is to dispel the idea that we could get off oil so easily.



www.ceoe.udel.edu...




The truth is, oil is used for more than just powering automobiles, and a complete disconnect from it isnt going to happen anytime soon....

edit on 29-1-2012 by boncho because: (no reason given)

Yes and no. You can use Hemp. Either outright genetic engineering or just good breeding to make it grow faster, and it would meet our plastic needs.

For electricity you could replace gasoline, coal and even nuclear power plants with thorium based power plants.

Heck you can also use thorium for powering car's as well(but a slightly less radioactive alternative may be preferable).

reviews.cnet.com...

A lot of our problems that seem so debilitating are easy to solve, you just have to remove all the psychopaths that thrive in our inefficient and corrupt society.

For example: Obama could of easily made green a reality with the trillion dollar stimulus. He could of easily paid for road construction and overhaul with the 1 trillion dollars. Then by executive order mandate that all federally funded road construction also instal small, but thin solar panels along the roadway(a little bit to the right of the pull off zone). The passive energy generated could of also went to road maintenance.

But instead he gave the stimulus to feminist's, union thugs, bankers and big campaign donators. That is what ticks me off. We have the technology to do so much good. But because of psychopathic sadist's, we are trapped in this hell world.

Look up 3-d printers, if we began to develop them full throttle we could eliminate the need for manufacturing plants. Bring job's back to the states while reducing production cost's dramatically. I would dare say if it wasn't for the psychopaths, we would be 10-30 years away from having to adopt a communist or socialist like economic model(just the economic model, not the political model or the loss of private rights) due to technological developments rendering capitalism/free trade/corporatism as we know it obsolete.

It would be so easy to build a Heaven on Earth type civilization. If you actually looked at all the emerging technologies, it is enough to make ones blood boil.
-
additional links of note
wardsauto.com...
www.geekosystem.com... - 8 grams of thorium= lifetime energy cost for a thorium powered SUV

reply to post by korathin


So you can provide the numbers for all these things that outlines them as feasible? Commercially viable... In other words, you could not only implement all the things you mention, but also make money off them?

Here is the problem. So far, the "green" energy movement has been subsidized, therein receiving government funds for their projects. Not because the projects are actually worth doing, but because of the "green" movement that has been sold to the public.

There are a number of great alternatives that actually do turn a profit, but as of now are not widespread. I would still like to see a feasible hemp project that is going to replace all plastics...

Do you have that info? Because if you do, I'm sure you can make a lot of money off it... But I suppose you don't....

i think there is a difference between "renewable energy" and "free energy" .
renewable energy , albeit lacking the dependence on fossile resources still relies on an outside source as far as i know . as an example , how can wind turbines provide electricity when there is no wind ? if free energy were possible , electricity as we know it today wouldn't be of such infrastructural importance any more .

Has civilization survived without oil before? Why couldnt it again, if so? Is it a comfort or a necessity? Imo, civilization would/will continue on without it. At a less comfortable existance at first. But alternatives would quickly arrive. Necessity is the mother of invention!