The Humble .22 Long Rifle

Your .22 went through THREE FEET OF OAK and then even took out some trees behind that??

Are you drunk?

Sorry. I know manners are high on the list around here, but to come in here and say something like that... you're just asking for it


BTW I don't own a .22 anymore myself but was taught by my grandfather how to shoot. Lots of fond memories. Don't recall ever stopping a tank with one though.

I can say for sure that a .22lr round can be just as deadly as any other round. In fact, I prefer .22lr, and I have a .22lr rifle stocked and ready to go if the SHTF. I can carry A LOT of .22lr rounds and clips, without affecting my ability to be mobile.
As well, it is possible to modify a .22lr round so that the slug expands considerably upon impact. I have been shooting .22lr my whole life, and in the right hands, it can be an extremely deadly and efficient weapon.
When I was in my teens, I used to put nails in the side of a fence post at about 50 yards from my uncle's front porch. I would sit up on his porch and knock those nails out, one by one, without any trouble at all.
I'm 35 now, and I've had a lot of practice since.
What I'm trying to say is, it doesn't matter what caliber the round is. In the right hands, anything can be an efficient weapon. Couple that with a decent knowledge of anatomy, and you can pretty much bring anything down.

reply to post by mwood


Not much that I could say about that. I have almost no experience with guns and none with the 22lr. I just ran across it. There are pics towards the end which stopped showing up in the first page because of where they were hosted.

He says he was surprised that he was able to hit the target as well. Would be nice if someone with the gear tried to do the same and report their results.

What kind of ammo where you using(sub-sonic, supersonic or custom.[can you make custom rim fires?])

That would make a difference, also a 22 would have to displace less wood to travel through it. Plus shooting it up a bunch of times might make the wood weaker or as someone mention, the wood may have been rotting.

As for 300 yard shots with a 22, I believe in it, and I believe I could do it. I haven't but why do I believe? When my .308 was acting up trying to sight it in, I had prove to my grandpa that I can shoot descent, so I went to the house, got the 22 and shot from the same point. (100 yards) After 5 shots I got my target and had a nice group 2-4 inches left of the bulls-eye, in a nice zig zaggy line. the wind was variable and would push the bullets that way so I think I did good and can do better.

Did it with cheap A** rounds but with a good 12 point rifle.

Out of a rifle the .22LR can be pretty effective especially with proper shot placement when I was many years younger I took quite a few deer with well placed shots. Although the last one that I shot with a .22 were not clean hits and ended up having to track it quite a ways before I could put it out of the misery, I was not proud of that and never tried it again. Also had a crazy relative that took a black bear up in the Ozarks who dropped the bear with 2 well placed shots, although I would never suggest anyone try to do that lest it is an extreme emergency and that's all you have.

As far as the OP's claims of insane penetration I do not buy it at all, just IMO.

I do love my .22 rifle. Very accurate out to 100yds and it's a great rifle to teach anyone the basics of shooting (breathing, trigger squeeze, sight alignment, etc.). Ammo is about $2.89 for 50 where I live so you can practice more with this rifle than any other.

Originally posted by HattoriHanzou
Now it's time for us all to pay homage to the most under-rated and affordable cartridge known to man - the humble .22 Long Rifle rimfire.

First, a little story about my discoveries regarding its penetration abilities. Up at the cabin one day, I was target shooting as I often do. I had two handguns with me - my Colt New Agent (.45 1911 compact) and my old Ruger Super Single Six. The .45 was loaded with military style FMJ round nose, the .22 with standard velocity lead round nose. The target was a Shoot-N-See plastered onto a gigantic hunk of oak, 2.5' around and about 3' thick. I had tipped it onto its side so I could have a flat surface to put the targets on.

After shooting some with the .45, I let fly with the .22 quite a bit. Then I switched back and forth for a while. The .45 made the stump jump, which is impressive as it weighed at least 150 pounds! The .22 of course did no such thing.

After I was all done, I became curious. I brought out the maul and the wedges and split the thing in half, right down the middle, and did a post-mortem.

The .45 rounds had all managed to penetrate about 2/3rds of the way into the hunk of wood. Some went a bit farther than that, but that was the extent of the damage.

Many of the .22's had penetrated most of the way to the back of the stump. Many more had exited the wood, and were nowhere to be found! Some of the smaller trees behind the log had holes going clear through them, .22 caliber holes. Measuring the .22 bullets I found in the stump showed that they had lost a lot of diameter, being about .18-20 of an inch across when they came to rest.

Bear in mind, this was from a revolver with a 6" barrel - the .22's had not the time to develop the velocity they would have, if they were fired from a rifle.

All in all a pretty impressive showing from our old friend, the .22, which got me thinking about stopping power. There are three basic ways that bullets stop an attacker - either by destroying a portion of the central nervous system, a blood organ like the heart, liver, or kidneys (or a major artery or vein) causing massive blood pressure drop and starving the CNS, or by massive trauma which disables the body or a major component thereof.

Then I got to thinking about rabbits. When I was a young lad my grandfather and I often hunted rabbits. He had not done this since he was a kid, in the late teens and early twenties of the previous century. He used a .22 Long Rifle of course, but a standard velocity cartridge loaded with lead round nosed ammo.

I always managed to bag a few rabbits under his guidance. Our first couple of trips out we ended up with rabbits that looked like they sat on an M-80. We're talking giant chunks of flesh the size of my fist (sometimes both fists balled together - like 1/5th of the rabbit) just evaporated! He remarked that his rabbits never suffered such a fate when he was a youngster. So we looked at the remaining factor - the ammo. It was high velocity, hollowpoint Remington High Speed. Kind of a forerunner to the super high velocity rounds we have now. They have bronze jackets, (doesn't appear to be a plating - I still have over half a box) and literally explode on impact. So, we started buying the normal velocity lead round nosed stuff, and the rabbits did not end up nearly so pulped, although occasionally there would be damage nearing what we always got with the hollowpoints. I think that happened when the bullet hit a bone, and decided to fly apart.

The point of this story is that the humble, much maligned (some people even call it a toy) .22 LR is nothing to be sneezed at. Just like a 9mm or a .45 ACP, if it finds its way into one of the vital zones, it will kill a man dead right quick, and I feel that the hollowpoints (which aren't really even that hollow, more like round nosed ammo with a tiny depression) would probably make their way through clothing with the hollow intact better than larger rounds might. I put my money where my mouth is, as my daily carry gun is the North American Arms Mini Magnum, loaded with a mix of round nose and hollow ammo. I often bring my .45 with me into the woods, and while traveling it always sits cocked and locked in the center console, but I don't even take the garbage out without my Mini.

edit on 26-1-2012 by HattoriHanzou because: (no reason given)

I got shot with one of those it barely pierced my skin, hurt like a mother*****r. But i was moving and a far distance.. that might have something to do with it. .22 magnum will do some damage tho... I didnt read the whole post so if my reply is off dont mind me....

WHAT REALLY MATTERS IS THIS: These boards were set up to dispense information and discussion (arguments have their place of course). I FOUND THIS LINK BECAUSE IT RELATED TO A QUESTION OF MINE.
I am concerned about what minimum guns to suggest my friends stock up on, that have little gun skills of a crisis event. It does not truly matter what this poster had in results, it DID create discussion and lots of interesting data for me to look at. So, the thread "worked". Bottom line, if you can't afford a lot to buy a first gun (rifle), make it a 22lr simply because ammunition is cheap (US $0.02 per shot/round) and a box of 500 takes up the space of a couple of soup cans at most. Also, in self defense, anything is better than nothing.

reply to post by ga-`tv-gi


When I was taking a criminal justice class in college, we watched a video of a cop being killed. He pulled over a guy, and the guy had drugs and pulled a gun. They cop pulled his and shot they guy like 5 times, but the guy had also pulled his and hit the cop with a 22. The bullet entered the cops arm and traveled up the bone, under his shoulder and into his heart. So the cop died calling for back up, and the suspect ran off into the night with bullet holes straight through him.

My brothers 22 rifle has shot through some thick stuff. Puts a 22lr easily through both sides of 55 gallon steel drums, and steel drum lids (which are much thicker than the drums themselves).

OP.. i'm curious about the wood. It wasn't rotted to pulp was it? I just can't see a 22 out penetrating a more powerful ammo. I really can't see it going through legit solid wood like that either.

OOPS, before I forget and just in case anyone else is interested: Common Wisdom (meaning the majority of comments I've received) in my quest; says [if you can afford it] 3 guns to have in order, based on multiple utility, expense of rounds needed to gain proficiency, and likelihood of being worth the weight of carrying if hiking are:
22lr semi-auto with 15+1 in chamber (not safe, but possible max load [fairly rapid fire at two legged intruder so you can land 4-5 or more round just by pointing and pulling the trigger. This may not kill or knock down attacker but you will have diminished the enthusiasm of the attack, and given you a second or two more to back up and keep shooting until the threat is "ventilated" to use the term loosely... that's why semi-auto , [old style stock fed tube] is preferred over clip fed. Second is basic .38 revolver. Nothing fancy to jam, double action is brainless to use, just point and start pulling the trigger (self defense, or walk up to a cow and pop it behind the ear for dinner), lastly while it is heavy and awkward, the versatility of the tried and true 12 ga. shotgun just can't be beat. The loads can become bulky and heavy to carry (four boxes/100 shells ) weighs a lot to carry if you are going to hike anywhere! However, it will bring down game and close attackers without issue. Pump shotgun over auto for simplicity and as a "verbal" warning to foolish attackers when the slide is jacked. Please note that a 5-shot pump loaded with buckshot (size 00 or maybe it was 000) threw out more deadly projectiles in FBI testing for a time frame (without reloading) than the famous UZI. I was taught that, but please don't anyone make a big deal and try to argue with me about it, it isn't that important, but note that police issues are 12 ga pumps, NOT "UZI" 9mm machine pistols! So, maybe it is true. If the police use it, that is good enough for the inexperienced person to consider it. In closing: all three ammo choices are very popular, hence cheap, and very available. These are my opinions, but may serve as a research point for other "beginner" or inexperienced people who are becoming interested in such issues. Remember this, no person can hold back a crowd of frightened or desperate people before they will be overrun. You can only shoot so many before you have to reload and that crowd is still running at you while you fumble around. We learned this in WWI, WW!!, and especially in the Korean War when the hopped up N. K. came over the hills.... like army ants, just swarms of them, and there was no end in sight! So, try to keep a reasonable head about the self-defense scenario. You can't stop the hordes if they have lost all reason or fear! -dig deeper/ run faster/ live longer

A neutrino will pass through everything without damage, if you throw a bowling ball with the same speed at the same object there will be nothing left to investigate of that same object.

Just trying to compare and reason.

Originally posted by dayve
I got shot with one of those it barely pierced my skin, hurt like a mother*****r. But i was moving and a far distance.. that might have something to do with it. .22 magnum will do some damage tho... I didnt read the whole post so if my reply is off dont mind me....

Okay, I'll bite. What in the world were you doing getting shot at with a .22LR? Did a drunk idiot friend thought it was a great idea? Were you running from trouble? Or were you causing trouble? Just curious.

Originally posted by DigDeeperRunFaster
I am concerned about what minimum guns to suggest my friends stock up on, that have little gun skills of a crisis event.

You just opened a can of worms asking what people should suggest. Everyone has their own valid opinion. Its like the never-ending .45ACP vs 9mm debate. It all comes down to what matters to you and your situation (money, state laws, locale, physique, family, etc.).

That being said. Here is my $0.02 for you and your friends:

Buy a 12ga shotgun. Combat or combo (2x barrels - short and long). Or whatever. Stock shotguns are cheaper than most handguns. They're easier to use and maintain. Plus, you have 3 types of ammo for many scenarios.

Get training and practice. Once you are comfortable with a shotgun and can afford it, buy a handgun. Then train some more. Consider a rifle afterward. If you live in an urban environment, shotgun and handguns are good.

Originally posted by ga-`tv-gi
A 22lr IMHO is one of the deadliest rounds out there not for its stopping power but for its slower penetrating speed. I shot a deer when I was younger with a 22lr it entered the rib cage area and exited just below the tail. It had ricochet off a rib bone and traveled trough the soft organs. I was amazed so I did some searching and found some coroner reports of 22lr gun shot victims and all of the ones that I could get my hands on the round entered one part of the victim and exited the body in a out of trajectory line or never passed fully through.

Tell that to my Uncle who attempted suicide 10 years ago with a .22 LR one through the roof of his mouth and one in center of chest never fully penetrating, he is very much alive and well today with no problems from his attempted suicide. Had it been a .357 Magnum or .45acp he wouldn't be around. .22 LR is a Varmit round and it works great for that purpose but its just that. Sure it can be lethal any projectile can be lethal. As far as a reliable defensive caliber for home defense I'll stick with a 12 gauge with 00 Buckshot and #4 Buckshot you can keep your varmit round.

Originally posted by Nazsa
reply to post by mwood

 

Dude , a 22 from a rifle will penetrate steel and armor. caliber means nothing, it's all about velocity!

edit on 26-1-2012 by Nazsa because: (no reason given)

Yup, that's the point.

reply to post by Aliensdoexist


I would bet that he was using not a 22lr, but a 22 short. Like I said, I know a 22 lr will punch through thin steel, but probably as thick as a skull.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


No I know for a fact it was .22LR I was their right before the paramedics removed him from his house the gun was a Browning Buckmark and loaded with 40gr. Winchester roundnose 22LR. He spent about 2 weeks in the hospital, after a day his head swelled up quite a bit and whole head and face showed heavy bruising, the swelling wasn't severe enough for them to induce him into a coma the bullet is still in his head it missed all major parts of the brain. I'm just glad he got a 2nd chance at life had it been a bigger caliber he probably would never have that chance. The whole situation really sucked everyone in our family thought he was happy I guess he was good at acting happy but really he was depressed. He now regrets what he did to himself.

you sure can carry a lot of .22 ammo without much weight/bulk, not to mention the lighter weapon.
I recall reading somewhere...combat forensics types in some army noticed that if a soldier was hit and bleeding he would immediately be declared a casualty and out of battle, whether it was a life-ending gutshot from a large caliber, or a 1" deep flesh wound with a fragment. the sight of blood and shock of wound would confuse the injured, who would frequently assume the worse. they concluded that their troops were better off with a smaller caliber firearm that could fire more rounds (and allow the soldier to carry more ammo). this might have been the transition from the M-1 to the M-16.
I think it's obvious that a .22 would do far less damage to small game (rabbit, squirrel). any ideas on the kill ratio for a deer?

I don't know the kill ratio for deer with a .22 but I have read that more deer are taken with .22 rifles by poachers than are legally or otherwise by all of the rest of the calibers combined... Where I live I wouldn't have any problem putting venison on the table year round if I would go hungry other wise.. My choice of rifle to use would be a .22... It bothers me a lot when poachers just take the back strap and leave the rest of the deer to rot... That is just sorry and about as low as a person can get..

First i have a old Vietnam era flak jacket and about all it will stop is 22lr. A FMJ 45 will go through front and back and keep going.
Likely some of your 22lr went down the holes made by the 45 and exited through the little remaining wood.

I one time saw a telephone pole brought down by 22lr rounds.

the kids at this farm used a telephone pole to hung there targets on for years and one day the weakened pole jut fell over from all the damage that somewhere 5,000 to 10,000 22lr rounds had done to the pole

Originally posted by hypervigilant
I don't know the kill ratio for deer with a .22 but I have read that more deer are taken with .22 rifles by poachers than are legally or otherwise by all of the rest of the calibers combined... Where I live I wouldn't have any problem putting venison on the table year round if I would go hungry other wise.. My choice of rifle to use would be a .22... It bothers me a lot when poachers just take the back strap and leave the rest of the deer to rot... That is just sorry and about as low as a person can get..

I could see using a .22LR vs. a Deer if your in survival mode and thats all you have but to openly go out and hunt a deer with a .22LR is just complete ignorance on your part, 9 times out of 10 after a deer gets hit with a .22 they are gonna run and run and run until they feel safe and that will be many miles from you leaving a very faint blood trail if any at all and you'll never find it and he may very well survive but may also die a slow and agonizing death because you think the .22 is the "Be All, End All" calibers, most States ban use of small calibers for deer hunting for a reason, part of that reason is because its "In-humane", another reason is because it also puts motorists at risk as well, a deer running for its life from a fool with a varmit round across a major highway can cause a major accident resulting in potential death or severe injury to whoever hits the animal. That is just sorry and about as low as a person can get and shows that your just as low and ignorant as the poachers your complaining about.