cold plasma found above earth raises questions of einstiens "gravity is a fundimental force"

wow this is big,
and not conclusive without a dedicated space based detector, but
WOW

The low-energy ions are created in the ionosphere, a region of the upper atmosphere where solar energy can sweep electrons away from molecules, leaving atoms of elements like hydrogen and oxygen with positive charges. Actually detecting these ions at high altitudes has been extremely difficult.

Now that has changed, making it apparent that low-energy ions abound in the distant reaches where Earth's atmosphere gives way to outer space. Researchers knew the ions were present at altitudes of about 100 kilometers (60 miles), but André and his colleague Chris Cully looked much higher, between 20,000 and 100,000 km (12,400 to 60,000 mi). While the concentration of the previously hidden cold ions varies, about 50 to 70 percent of the time the particles make up most of the mass of great swaths of space, according to the researchers' satellite measurements and calculations. And, in some high-altitude zones, low-energy ions dominate nearly all of the time. Even at altitudes around 100,000 km — about a third of the distance to the moon — the team detected these previously elusive low-energy ions.

physics .org

ok just so we know this is big i have added a statment from a member,

If you can have E-fields in space, then objects in space will tend to act as anodes or cathodes. And before you know it, you are talking about a galactic circuit linking all of the components together.

Depending on how invested you are in the existing theories, these findings are either extremely exciting or incredibly threatening.

same link

so we are talking about the interaction between the sun hot plasma and earth cold plasma in an anollogy and anode cathode or electrical potential diference and presure density difference that creates the environment of "cold plasma " interacting with solar plasma in an electrical way.

it gets very interesting when you realise that a small amount of missing mass int the universe may have just been found and an interesting problem about some of einstiens equations.

let's be clear here: The observation of E-fields in space is a complete game-changer. This is reason to suspect that gravity is not the universe's fundamental force after all, and that gravity is a side-effect of electromagnetism.

game changer is correct, we now have the tools to explain some of the parts of gravity that we could not find answers for yay

link to source

xploder

Originally posted by XPLodER

physics .org

ok just so we know this is big i have added a statment from a member,

If you can have E-fields in space(If? This is a well known fact.) , then objects in space will tend to act as anodes or cathodes. And before you know it, you are talking about a galactic circuit linking all of the components together.

Depending on how invested you are in the existing theories, these findings are either extremely exciting or incredibly threatening.
Actually, it's neither. Sure, it's an interesting topic...but it's neither "extremely exciting", and definitely not "incredibly threatening" I'll explain more at the end.

same link

so we are talking about the interaction between the sun hot plasma and earth cold plasma in an anollogy and anode cathode or electrical potential diference and presure density difference that creates the environment of "cold plasma " interacting with solar plasma in an electrical way.
what?

it gets very interesting when you realise that a small amount of missing mass int the universe may have just been found and an interesting problem about some of einstiens equations.

No, no, no, you have this completely wrong. The missing mass phenomenon involves the interaction of gravity between other masses...It doesn't involve the Earth's mass for those equations. An anology to this would be like finding out your windshield is dirty, just because the windshield is dirty, doesn't change the distance of the objects you're seeing.

let's be clear here: The observation of E-fields in space is a complete game-changer. This is reason to suspect that gravity is not the universe's fundamental force after all, and that gravity is a side-effect of electromagnetism.

Not really...It's been known that E-fields exist in space since the 1800s. Light is an electrical field and a magnetic field....and they've been known to be able to travel through the vacuum of space since the late 1800s.




xploder

edit on 25-1-2012 by XPLodER because: (no reason given)

You do realize that most scientific articles are exaggerated right? Especially articles on the internet.

Do you know how much mass is up there? No, so you can't say it would alter equations for gravity, and FYI, even if there was a significant amount of mass, it still wouldn't change the equations for gravity...


TLDR: I want to stress how the article doesn't even attempt to say how much mass was discovered...which makes it highly likely that it is an insignificant amount. The equation for gravity need not be changed for this discovery, and it provides no other amazing extraordinary discovery.
Scientists have been forced to exaggerate things in the past few years, because people won't buy their articles if they aren't exaggerated.

Your TL;DR was longer than your original comment.

reply to post by Ghost375


i wounder if you are missing the point of the thread,

if objects have hot/cold boudaries,
like bubbles around them,
and inside and outside the bubbles are at different presures and electrical states,
they act like a battery.

i would seem that gravity very well may be an effect of electrical potential difference in voltage,

and be a direct effect of the exchange of energy caused to "balence" the potential voltage indifereence.

if a cause and effect can be established between the two plasma behavious at the various pressure densities,

electromagnetics and magneto hydrodynamics would come into play.

The new measurements indicate that about a kilogram (two pounds) of cold plasma escapes from Earth's atmosphere every second

source

so if the interaction was "stripping" cold plasma at a rate of a kilo gram per second how many electrons would that be per second?

how much charge in a kilo of electrons per second?
what would that be in KV per second

and if the cold plasma reigion extends 1/3 the distence to the moon,
and other planets and moons would be expected to exhibit the same behaviour,

would indeed indicate that gravity was not a fundimental force of nature,
instead it would be a by prouct of induction producing attraction.

xploder

xploder

If gravity is a result of electro magnetism then maybe we should look at anti gravity through disturbing the electro magnetic field.

So is what this article is saying is that Leedskalnin was correct all the time??? That what appears as gravity is caused by magnetism (even elector magnetism) and that an independent force called gravity does not really exist.

Originally posted by XPLodER
reply to post by Ghost375

 

i wounder if you are missing the point of the thread,

if objects have hot/cold boudaries,
like bubbles around them,
and inside and outside the bubbles are at different presures and electrical states,
they act like a battery.

i would seem that gravity very well may be an effect of electrical potential difference in voltage,

and be a direct effect of the exchange of energy caused to "balence" the potential voltage indifereence.

if a cause and effect can be established between the two plasma behavious at the various pressure densities,

electromagnetics and magneto hydrodynamics would come into play.

The new measurements indicate that about a kilogram (two pounds) of cold plasma escapes from Earth's atmosphere every second

source

so if the interaction was "stripping" cold plasma at a rate of a kilo gram per second how many electrons would that be per second?

how much charge in a kilo of electrons per second?
what would that be in KV per second

and if the cold plasma reigion extends 1/3 the distence to the moon,
and other planets and moons would be expected to exhibit the same behaviour,

would indeed indicate that gravity was not a fundimental force of nature,
instead it would be a by prouct of induction producing attraction.

xploder

xploder

edit on 25-1-2012 by XPLodER because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-1-2012 by XPLodER because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-1-2012 by XPLodER because: (no reason given)

I always felt like the cause of gravity would turn out to be something so simple we overlooked it. I wonder if parallels can be drawn with the attracting forces in/of atoms?

reply to post by XPLodER


Very exciting indeed. Anti-gravity here we come!

to be clear,
the measurements were made with an instriment that was not specifically designed to take readings under htese conditions, as they were largly unexpected.

cold is relitive when talking about plasmas,

the pressure/density difference between the solar wind and the earths upper atmosphere, and the electrical potential difference causes and electrical "stripping" of electrons and the change of charge state seperates out into boundaries.

this means that gravity COULD be a side effect of energy transversing between two objects,


it will take a while to follow this thought process through to its conclusion.

but this is big

xploder

reply to post by remembering


we are talking big G Gravity here the planet to planet gravity the effects orbiting bodies,
not little g at ground level.

makes for an interesting relationship if the cold to hot zone was regular in shape

xploder

Stan Deyo said the same thing about gravity being electro magnetism.. As did Viktor Schauberger and TTBrown.

video.google.com...

What is really amazing though is that I think electrogravitics were used in the Giza Pyramids. From what I have discovered the Giza pyramid was essentially a particle accelerator.

As the builder of Coral Castle - Ed Leedskalnin - said, he could control the magnets inside the stones he moved.. essentially creating antiogravity.

The key to electrogravitics is to separate charges using dielectrics. dielectrics are materials that can seal charges - prevent charges from leaking. The perfect dielectric is a vacuum. In our atmosphere it is very difficult to create these charge separations. One way to do it though is using stones with the right materials - dielectrics embedded. Limestone and granite have chitin in it which is a natural dielectric.

The granite above the Kings chamber was loaded with quartz particles. If you look at the Giza pyramid you see that the grand gallery is designed to shoot particles like a particle accelerator through the limestone colliding with the quartz granite.

Quartz is piezoelectric. When you hit it with these particles it vibrates them. This produces electricity contained in the dieletric. This creates electrogravitics.

So the King's chamber wasn't really for keeping dead bodies in there. It was a container for materials that were transmuted. I suspect it was either some nuclear material.. either they were processing plutonium OR they were processing USED plutonium making it stable.

Another possiblity was that they were making something even more exotic... such as the element 115 Bob Lazar said couldn't possibly be made on Earth. Maybe he knew the truth - that we had made it long ago.

I suspect some ancient civilization was making some kind of fuel for space craft.

Another fascinating thing is if you look on this video you see this insignia has a pyramid incorperated.. don't look at the triangular shape.. look at the negative space below the triangle.. ot looks like the Giza pyramid. The pyramid also used resonance... so while it may have been processing somekind of material I also think it was a powerplant that could resonate energy.. maybe all over all the way to the moon.

www.youtube.com...

Wilburt Smith theorised the UFOs flew using anti magnetics.....
Perhaps this is part of the equation.....
Could it be electromagnetism not gravity that keeps us from floating away?

Did you know that the quantum physicist David Bohm gave up research on plasma because he believed it arranged its self like a life form would?

reply to post by XPLodER


I believe the reason we have such a hard time understanding "gravity" is either one of two reasons.

Like your story seems to imply, the effects of gravity are actually just tertiary effects of electromagnetism.

OR

the force of gravity may resides in a parallel dimension, or higher dimension, and what we experience is a leakage effect, into our own plane of existence.

for example, some theorist state that their could be up to 11 dimensions. The dimensions we do not experience on a macroscale never expanded, and instead closed in on themselves. Think of a 3 dimension coordinate (X,Y,Z)
where XYZ extend some a central point. The remaining dimensions, instead of extending from this central point, actually "collapsed" and wrap around the central point, creating a closed loops of extremely small proportions.
Here is a picture i created to explain this



so my theory is, for reasons unknown to me, when the remaining dimensions collapsed, the particles responsible for gravity were trapped within the enclosed dimensions. The particles may be to big to cross the thresh-hold to physically enter out universe. However, their effect may be able to leak through into our dimensions at a diminished strength. These particles could also affect the particles we know of, when they temporarily visit these microdimensions. It is even plausible to think that in the beginning, some of the gravity particles may have been trapped in our dimension, unable to escape, and could have "evaporated" or partially decayed or "morphed" into some form of exotic "material". What I am basically trying to say is that these particles may not have faired too well in our macroverse. OR, the gravity particles MAY have coalesced and group together, creating the initial blackholes in our universe. Black holes being nothing more than an incredibly strong Gravity well. They could be made by clumps of gravity particles, but at the same time they can also be made by larger clumps of normal matter.

Try not to rip into me too hard for my theory. As I said, its simply a theory and I am no cosmologist. And wether its right or not, I believe its a very interesting theory to contemplate, especially the closed dimensions.


This is an interesting article that COULD go along with my theory.
arstechnica

The other was that these "run-of-the-mill" black holes did not arise until later in cosmic history.

indicating there are different types of blackholes.

Even at these low numbers, the X-rays they see indicate that there are, in fact, black holes in the earliest galaxies.

These new observations can’t say anything definitive about the origins of the earliest black holes, but they support the idea that black holes and galaxies have coevolved, starting very early on in cosmic history

again, not trying to preach a gospel, just some yummy brain food

reply to post by XPLodER

game changer is correct, we now have the tools to explain some of the parts of gravity that we could not find answers for yay

The only "game" this "changes" is understanding possible electrostatic effects on spacecraft. The article does not mention gravity at all; this is because gravity has nothing to do with electrical charges. All it is saying is that the solar wind ionizes atoms in the upper atmosphere and carries them into space. This has been assumed for quite some time. The breakthrough is that researchers have discovered an indirect way of detecting and measuring this flux. Sorry, but gravity still exists.

reply to post by DJW001

The point he is trying to make is that gravity could simulated by the attraction between opposite charges.

What is this effect "enhances" the effects of gravity?

well i guess enhance is a bad word to use. But what if these two forces can cause similiar effects (attraction) between bodies.

so maybe gravity could be even weaker than we estimate, because part of the effect is due to this difference in charge.

not an expert by any means, but on the surface, attraction between two bodies would look the same.

reply to post by XPLodER


If gravity is a side effect of an electric field, why can't we create gravitational fields in a lab while we can create electric fields in a lab?

reply to post by VonDoomen

so maybe gravity could be even weaker than we estimate, because part of the effect is due to this difference in charge.

The problem is that charged particles are affected by magnetic fields, gravity is not. Electromagnetism is very powerful over short distances, which is why one magnet placed over another in the correct orientation can levitate. A child's toy can overcome the force of gravity over a short distance. The problem is that space plasma will have both positive and negative charges which cancel each other out over a large scale. These charged particles are "sorted out" by solar and planetary magnetic fields, but if you were approaching the solar system from a great distance, it would be the aggregate mass of these particles (not to mention the Sun and planets) that would be pulling you in. The net electrical charge of the Solar System would be zero.

What the OP has not considered is that if more electrically charged particles have been detected than was assumed by the "Electromagnetic Theory of Gravitation," what changes do theorists now need to make to their equations?

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by VonDoomen

 

The problem is that space plasma will have both positive and negative charges which cancel each other out over a large scale.

Is this a known proven fact? I just find it hard to believe that such an immense system would come out with a perfectly even charge, or symmetrical, especially considering it is a dynamic system always receiving input and giving off an output. At face value of course.

Since you seem to be more knowledgeable on the topic than me, could you comment on my previous post concerning Extra dimensions and a gravity particle being trapped?? Im curious to see what other people think about it.

reply to post by VonDoomen

Is this a known proven fact? I just find it hard to believe that such an immense system would come out with a perfectly even charge, or symmetrical, especially considering it is a dynamic system always receiving input and giving off an output. At face value of course.

Viewed as a closed system, one would expect all the charges to cancel out, due to various laws of conservation. Since it is not a closed system and is subject to input from outside (cosmic radiation, local variation in galactic composition, etc) it may vary over time. Nevertheless, one would expect these variations to even out in the long term.

According to Einstein, gravity is the result of space-time warping in an additional dimension. String Theory postulates many more dimensions to explain all the fundamental forces.