More proof America is dying

news.yahoo.com...

Someone made an excellent point. 80 years ago, we were able to build the Empire State Building in a year. It's taken us a decade to rebuild Ground Zero with technology that's light years ahead of what we had in the 1930s.

This just shows how damaged our economy is. Our system, our country, has failed. We can't fix the system. We need a new system. The 20th century is over.

Well, I agree to an extent. However, our technology is hardly "light years" ahead of where we were in the 1930's. I'm leaning more towards about 80 years ahead of where it was in the 1930's. Truth is, unions suck.

reply to post by lampsalot




america isnt "dying"


its DEAD.

america is like a star that has consumed all of its hydrogen, its core starts to collapse..

we are in the final stages of "hydrogen" consumption, but like the dying star its already too late...

but realistically there is nothing YOU or me can do about it...we've all seen what peaceful protesting has done for us

China showed everyone how powerful their economy was by building the super bridge so yeah I can see what you mean. Usually it is a good reference to the way things are with the economy, when feats either easily accomplished or flat out given up on.

Originally posted by lampsalot
news.yahoo.com...

Someone made an excellent point. 80 years ago, we were able to build the Empire State Building in a year. It's taken us a decade to rebuild Ground Zero with technology that's light years ahead of what we had in the 1930s.

This just shows how damaged our economy is. Our system, our country, has failed. We can't fix the system. We need a new system. The 20th century is over.

What? If they wanted to just quickly build a building they could. I do not know if you are aware but things at Ground Zero are a bit more complex than just tossing up a building. Talk about comparing apples to oranges.

Originally posted by MrSpad

Originally posted by lampsalot
news.yahoo.com...

Someone made an excellent point. 80 years ago, we were able to build the Empire State Building in a year. It's taken us a decade to rebuild Ground Zero with technology that's light years ahead of what we had in the 1930s.

This just shows how damaged our economy is. Our system, our country, has failed. We can't fix the system. We need a new system. The 20th century is over.

What? If they wanted to just quickly build a building they could. I do not know if you are aware but things at Ground Zero are a bit more complex than just tossing up a building. Talk about comparing apples to oranges.

Not really. From an economic standpoint, you need people to lease it and stuff.

Originally posted by SaMgLo87
Well, I agree to an extent. However, our technology is hardly "light years" ahead of where we were in the 1930's. I'm leaning more towards about 80 years ahead of where it was in the 1930's. Truth is, unions suck.

The fact that it's union workers is probably why its halted and having issues. Those guys take a days work and stretch it to a week.

Originally posted by SaMgLo87
Truth is, unions suck.

Research how many men died building the Empire.

Research how many men died building the hoover.

Now research how many die today in construction.

Easy to say catch phrases , when you are clueless.

In the history of mankind NO method of government has lasted forever they change either by force or by choice. There are other established countries who figured out the current system was no longer working and changed. Why can't we do that here without being thought of as anti American. All govenments change over time. We too must change. I would rather change by choice than by force but at some point the opportunity to do that will be lost. I wonder if anyone will see the warning signs as we speed past that point.

So America is dying because they are trying to make a strong attack resistant building which is technologically advanced and respectable as a memorial to a horrible attack? They had to clean up the area and had to deal with victim's families resistance to certain aspects which slowed things. They also wanted to make it viable for the future through technological advances as well as innovative security features. Quite simplistic to compare the 2 and say that's why America is dying...

reply to post by Tw0Sides


Couldn't agree more. While unions are not perfect they changed work place safety and improved the lives of workers. Why without unions it would have been pretty much like it is now wage slavery.

Rarely I mean Rarely X10 in history can you find examples of employers doing right by the employee out of the goodness of their heart. It just doesnt happen without workers uniting and standing up for themselves or some kind of regulation.

The progress of what is perhaps one of the most politically important (I think entangled more like) building projects in American history (also unions) is a terrible indicator of how our economy is doing.

However there are many other indicators that say you are right that we are on the way out.

Edit: I jumped the gun a bit. I read the article and you are right that it is a bad sign that this building in particular is having a hard time finding tenants. I thought we were talking about the physical progress of the building

As a side note, I agree that unions are a very good thing, but from what I hear I feel like in a lot of ways unions are becoming what they once opposed.

Originally posted by Mkoll
The progress of what is perhaps one of the most politically important (I think entangled more like) building projects in American history (also unions) is a terrible indicator of how our economy is doing.

However there are many other indicators that say you are right that we are on the way out.

Yes, it's important, but there's just no excuse for Ground Zero still being a construction zone in the year 2012. Just none at all.

And I saw your edit btw. Yeah i find it a perfect example of how messed up this country is.

All Closed Systems Tend Toward Entropy:

A closed system is one where interactions occur only among the system components and not with the environment. An open system is one that receives input from the environment and/or releases output to the environment. The basic characteristics of an open system is the dynamic interaction of its components, while the basis of a cybernetic model is the feedback cycle. Open systems can tend toward higher levels of organization (negative entropy), while closed systems can only maintain or decrease in organization.

In spite of the language used by so many American's, the economy they rely upon is not a "free market system", nor is it "capitalism".

Free market systems receive input from the environment and/or release output to the environment. In this case the "environment" is the economy. In the case of the highly regulated corporatized economy The United States functions under is a closed system and such a system can only maintain or decrease in organization. "Too Big To Fail" is an obvious example of an attempt to maintain the organization, but in the end it will become entropic, such is the fate of closed systems.

reply to post by lampsalot


Americans continue to watch biased mainstream media outlets who push an agenda, there's some more proof. Criminals still run our government, and nobody has been held accountable for the economic collapse. The Bill of Rights gets trampled on and literally destroyed in the name of protecting us from terrorist attacks, many of which are false flag attacks, a sort of problem/solution type of event. Ron Paul is not leading the polls by a wide margin: there's more proof.

reply to post by lampsalot


We could also build a bridge in a year, very cheaply and it would last a century. Today? HA! I look at the local I-5 bridge and laugh .. billions of dollars and 10 years worth of planning, thinking, building, thinking some more.

China built a high-tech high-speed rail system longer than any in the United States in a very short amount of time for a very cheap sum. The United States plans a inferior high speed rail system at 20x the cost with 4x the time to build it. And it will be smaller! Not even connecting all the major regions.

Government is the problem in my eyes.. not our technology, not our ability to build and create.. but the suffocating hands around the economy, stifling our industry and our potential.

Wasn't it the government who built the Hoover Dam and other projects like it? The bridge in China is crap lots of the people who worked on that project wont drive across it. China doesnt do much to insure a living wage or safety. Do we really want to be China? Cant we force them to move up and forward instead of us moving down and backwards?

At some point money went into keeping up our roads and bridges and they were good roads and bridges. Not anymore. It's just like Wall Street the money isn't gone its just in someone else's pocket. Why are Americans so easily duped in to going against what is in their own best interest?

reply to post by Ladysophiaofsandoz


Well then.. Well said , never knew the bridge was THAT poorly built. Nah I don't think we should become like China considering they probably spent $0.37 in labour for the bridge (sarcasm). It's just things don't seem how they could or should be, I just don't get it really.

Theres no place in this world that companies do not abuse he working man.
There seems no other way to save money than lay off more [people...
It makes no difference that the poduction must still be on schedule...and the remaining workers must produce more at lower wages to make up for any shortcommings be they management or the economy.
Where is that good old us ingenuity?
Where is tha teamwork spirit?
Gone with the shipped out factories....
We got betrayed enough by our industry to understand they never cared at all...why should we care to take pay cuts for people who shipped work overseas?
Just so they can keep living the high life?
that goes for union management too the bums.

Originally posted by lampsalot

Originally posted by MrSpad

Originally posted by lampsalot
news.yahoo.com...

Someone made an excellent point. 80 years ago, we were able to build the Empire State Building in a year. It's taken us a decade to rebuild Ground Zero with technology that's light years ahead of what we had in the 1930s.

This just shows how damaged our economy is. Our system, our country, has failed. We can't fix the system. We need a new system. The 20th century is over.

What? If they wanted to just quickly build a building they could. I do not know if you are aware but things at Ground Zero are a bit more complex than just tossing up a building. Talk about comparing apples to oranges.

Not really. From an economic standpoint, you need people to lease it and stuff.

The Empire State building made more money from its observation deck than rent for a few years because they could not lease most of it out.