Why a war with Iran is necessary should talking fail.

Iran's activities in the arena of nuclear energy, and their more dubious movements towards having access to nuclear weapons, began before the fall of the shah.

In 1979, the programs were suspended temporarily in wake of the revolution, and the Iran-Iraq war. After the end of that war, Iran has increased its efforts to acquire both WMD's, and the means by which to deliver them, ballistic missiles. All this has happened, is happening, right alongside what is a legitimate effort to bring a nuclear power-generation program on line.

I have no real issue with their efforts to develope a power generation program. The clandestine efforts to bring a WMD program to fruition is another thing entirely...

What would Iran's possession of nuclear weapons, or other sorts of WMD's have on the stability of the Middle East region specifically, and the world in general?

Israel will have kittens. ...Iran's possession of nukes will all but guarantee a conflict with nuclear armed Israel. Israeli paranoia, and its inevitable expression in the form of an attack such as the one on Iraq's in the 80's, and more recently on Syria's, would seem to be something to avoid...yet Iran keeps courting it.

The smaller Gulf States (Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, Iraq, et al) have to be looking at developments with alarm, as well.

Further north, former Soviet states such as Georgia, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, and others also should be alarmed.

India, and Pakistan, though for differing reasons, have reasons to be curious as to Iran's intentions. Though, as I said for differing reasons.

Pakistan sees in Iran a possible ally against India in a future conflict. India sees the same, and has to be alarmed at the prospect.

Iran has, in the past, and without a doubt still does, supported efforts to destabilize long time allies of the United States, and has proven over the past couple of decades, to be nearly impossible to deal with in these matters... An Iran with the bomb becomes virtually impossible to deal with in these matters.

For the sake of future stability in the region, should such a thing even be possible, which I doubt. Iran's weapons program must be terminated... Peacefully if possible, but with force if all other means of persuasion have failed.

During the Cold War, the United States, and the Soviet Union glared at each other across the world armed with weapons capable of shattering said world. Yet with all the glaring, growling, and claw sharpening, one thing remained constant...

Communication

The leader of these two giant powers could talk to each other instantly. They didn't have to go through intermediaries. The Oval Office could pick up, and on the other end was the Soviet Premier.

The Middle Eastern players lack this. ...and this should be profoundly terrifying, people.

Nations who can't, and would prefer never to, talk to each other, and who don't like each other much, are, or soon will be, armed with weapons that can, in an instant, obliterate millions as if they had never lived.



As if they had never lived...




Think about that. Ponder that for a moment.

Men, women, children... Burned away in an instant. Their sole crime? Leaders so blinded by ideology/religion (fanatics, really...) that they can't/won't talk to each other...

We stand on the cusp of an abyss. We have to take steps to assure that someone doesn't force us over that cusp into the abyss below.

If that means armed force, so be it. It's horrible to contemplate killing hundreds, or even thousands. But to prevent the killings of millions in the future?

Some of you will doubtless say, and with some justification, that that dark future may not, perhaps even will not, come to pass. But the actions of the power players in the region would seem to indicate otherwise.

Israel has proven it will not tolerate an enemy with a nuclear capability...

Iran has proven it has no interest in long-term stability in the region, unless it is the preeminent power. It wants desperately to be a global player, and sees the bomb as an ultimate trump card. Which it is.

It's decades too late to prevent Israel from having nuclear weapons. Pakistan, as well. It isn't too late to prevent Iran from having them.

Advocating any and all means doesn't come easily to this reformed hawk. But I can't blind myself to what I believe to be the reality of the situation we find ourselves in. The long term stability of the region is at stake here.

Given the importance of the region to the global economy, limited military action as an option has to be in play. Option of last resort, yes. But an option, never the less.


Please understand this, my friends... I don't want an armed conflict with Iran. But our options are shrinking daily...

Iran, in all likelihood, would not choose national suicide by using the bloody things... But dare we, we being the rest of the world, take that chance?

It'll mean hatred heaped upon the United States and its allies. But at least the region would be alive to hate us...and not a radioactive wasteland fit only for the dead.

I can't state it any clearer than that. Maybe I'm wrong...I hope I am. But indications tell me otherwise...

Agree with you 110%. Lately I've seen so much sympathy for Iran and a lot of people not looking at the whole picture here. A nuclear armed Iran is the world's most dangerous threat bar none.

People can't say this is solely about oil, it's a large part of it, but it's much more than that as well. People also can't say we didn't try to do it peacefully. We've tried or still are trying everything possible and nothing is working. Just like the eagle on the dollar bill with the olive branch (peace) it's right talon and the arrows (war) in the left. It represents, "we'll try peace and diplomancy, but if all else fails...we also have the means of force"

reply to post by seagull


What I think is interesting, if you remember back to when India demonstrated Nuclear weapons ability, quickly followed by Pakistan celebrating demonstration of it's own nuclear weapons readiness, the rest of the world got REALLY quiet and respectful of India and Pakistan.

Granted, they're two sides of a coin that tend to balance each other out, so, so long as nothing upsets that balance of antagonism between them, there's not much to worry about regarding India and Pakistan.

Iran is sandwiched directly between Afghanistan and Iraq, which, if I recall correctly, were just recently swarming with all sorts of American and UN troops, and would pose next to zero resistance in helping out with right of way for any land passage into Iran.

Iran is surrounded, physically on all sides water and land for ways to commit suicide.
Continuing or even hinting at a nuclear weapons program would likely seal the deal, and may as well be suicide.

On the other hand of that, however, if Iran suddenly had a whole arsenal of nukes ready to go and positioned all over the place in difficult places to hide, Like India and Pakistan, alot of all this talk would stop very quickly.

The noise Israel is making is a bit silly where Iraq is MUCH closer and serves as a huge land mass buffer between Israel and Iran. Anything coming out of Iran would have to go through or over Iraq.
Look at a map.

Iran is surrounded.
Iran is not a threat.
Don't believe the hype.

my personal opinion.

wouldnt that turn all the surviving civilians of this "war" into suicide bombers, hell bent on destroying the usa?

it will unleash a whole new wave of terrorism

I keep checking the news to see if there's been an underground blast over in Iran. One of these days soon, there's gonna be one...

Also, keep in mind folks, it's not just about Iran "using" a nuke. Yeah, that's part of it, but there's something else that could happen here that would upset the balance of the entire world.

If Iran develops nuclear weapons, what's that going to do for Iran and the region, and this is the real dangerous aspect. It's not that people are as much afraid of Iran using them as they are of this particular scenario happening. Lets say Iran reports they have nuclear weapons. Several of the smaller countries in the region will automatically ally with Iran due to it's newly attained power. Other countries will be bullied into joining. It will get to the point to where Iran could possibly control the entire middle east and this is the "real threat". This is what leaders in Washington and all over the globe are wanting to prevent.

So, don't just think in terms of Iran launching nukes at people. It's the power grab that would be ripe for the taking for Iran. Think of all the middle eastern resources and how the world currently operates day to day and depends on them. Iran would be in control of all of that.

The other scary thing would be of course the religion aspect of it. They would become the new hub of Islam. This would draw in and unite many Muslims. Nothing wrong with that on the surface, but if Iran has bad intentions then they would easily have control of 2 billion + Islamic followers. Imagine the army.

In other words nuclear weapons and middle eastern land and power grabs, along with the control of religion gives Iran the power to upset the balance of the whole entire world and practically become a super power overnight. This is the "real threat". And even if the religious aspect didn't happen, the control of resources most likely will, and even then, half as bad, the scenario is still haunting and could mess things up badly.

reply to post by seagull


so, in summary:

we should go to war cause Israel will have kittens and get paranoid and attack them anyway if we don't.

why not let both of them just wipe each other out?

reply to post by seagull


My gut feeling tells me Iran already has between 2-3 nuclear weapons already....maybe more.

yaaaaaawwwwnnnn.... more of the usual fearmongering propaganda to try and justify more mass murder for profit by the israeli lapdog america ...

reply to post by seagull


a moderator is talking this....


disgusting....

IF americans think like this,I hope Russia nukes and wages biological and thermonuclear genocide and eradicates the americans from this planet. We don't need genocidal american warmongers.

Originally posted by mkgandhas
reply to post by seagull

 

a moderator is talking this....


disgusting....

IF americans think like this,I hope Russia nukes and wages biological and thermonuclear genocide and eradicates the americans from this planet. We don't need genocidal american warmongers.

I agree i am very sadden by this.


And ignore J.Son79.

Yeah and Iraq had WMD's... Sigh!

In case you haven't noticed the middle east is already unstable because we the USA have destabilized it. This is all just war propaganda. Iran is no threat to us even if they do get a nuke. Pakistan has nukes and they were supposedly harboring Bin Laden and with the radical Muslim movement there and our drone strikes they are more threat to us then Iran.... Our CIA said Iran was no where near getting nukes now all of a sudden that has changed? How convenient...

Yeah right lets put out the war propaganda work it to a fever pitch and then attack. WHAT THE HELL HAS IRAN DONE TO US? Who are we to tell them they can't have nukes? Israel has 300 nukes do you really think they will let Iran get them?

My guess is Iran is getting ready to really cut off selling oil in dollars which is why the war propaganda is ramping up... Haven't we learned you can't believe a word these effen bastages say? Yeah a bunch of Saudis supposedly blew up the WTC so we attacked Afghanistan and Iraq... Yeah these guys are real trustworthy... Sigh.

Tun off the damn TV its nothing but propaganda for warmongers and banksters!

reply to post by seagull


Iran is not threat, nor was Iraq do buy the hype mod, on whom i used respect here.

Originally posted by Beavers
reply to post by seagull

 

so, in summary:

we should go to war cause Israel will have kittens and get paranoid and attack them anyway if we don't.

why not let both of them just wipe each other out?

edit on 22-1-2012 by Beavers because: (no reason given)

You got it right basically Israel are the only ones saying Iran is building the bomb. The CIA, The State dept, and the UN says Iran isn't building a bomb. Even the IAEA report says there was some computer modeling done. So where is the proof of any bomb? When did America start throwing away it's own intelligence in favor of Israels?

WOW why is it everytime something going down in the middle east Israel is never happy.....you cant please them and why does anyone care if they are happy......

because israel doesnt want them to have nukes they should not have nukes because israel is afriad and will attack.....why should the middle east cater to israel until they are pleased

maybe we should cater to iran and help them gain nukes because iran isnt pleased that israel has them? we should balance the force like someone said (pakistan and india)

Iran's Nuclear Program is like the German airlines of the 30's that ended up dropping bombs on people. When Israel has failed to follow a pre-emptive military doctrine they have nearly been wiped out. China is India natural enemy more on that another time. If Iran uses nukes against Israel or its own people the US will bomb that country back to the stone age. The same goes for if they close the Straight of Hormuz. In the event of war Iranian forces will take Basra. Iran may send troops to Syria to support the regime and to further isolate Iraq, something to consider. Politically I use to concerned that bombing Iran would drive the regime detractors back into supporting that country government. Now any western leader with half a brain couldn't let the war end until the regime is gone and buried.

On behalf of the allied military personal that would die in any conflict what ever punishment the enemy takes doesn't bother me in the slightest. As General Sherman would have put it " War is hell and the more we make it so the sooner it ends." I was unable to source the extract quote.

And

War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want.

Read more: www.brainyquote.com...

reply to post by seagull

In 1979, the programs were suspended temporarily in wake of the revolution, and the Iran-Iraq war. After the end of that war, Iran has increased its efforts to acquire both WMD's, and the means by which to deliver them, ballistic missiles. All this has happened, is happening, right alongside what is a legitimate effort to bring a nuclear power-generation program on line.

I have no real issue with their efforts to develope a power generation program. The clandestine efforts to bring a WMD program to fruition is another thing entirely...

Reminds me of something I have heard before.

"There is no question that Iraq possesses biological and chemical weapons and that he seeks to acquire additional weapons of mass destruction, including nuclear weapons. That is not in debate. I also agree with President Bush that Saddam Hussein is a threat to peace and must be disarmed, to quote President Bush directly."

Just one of the countless quotes which show the rhetoric we faced during the lead up to the 2nd gulf war.

By repeating unproven lies and myths again and again they do nor become true. If you can add some proof that Iran is acquiring any WMD's, I would be glad to read it. Otherwise the uncritical repetition of this myth will probably be the main reason for another war in the Middle East in the near future. For decades such unproven allegations have been made againt the Iran.

There is another little country in that region which constantly not only threatens to attack its neighbours, but has also waged warfare against them. Iran has not waged an aggressive war for centuries. When Iran was attacked by Saddam, who used WMD's against it, the mullahs still had some of the Shah's chemical weapons in their possession. Even then the Iranians refused to use them in retaliation.

Today Iran is not known to possess any biological, chemical or nuclear weapons and the country has signed all treaties which repudiate the possession of weapons of mass destruction (unlike another little country in that region)

But instead of castigating the little aggressive country which illegally acquired WMDs we instead prefer to give more military aid to the little country and threaten and attack its neighbours. Iran is not the country which deserves sanctions for its warmongering ambitions.

The logic of preemptive war was wrong during the Cold War and it is still wrong today. Some war-profiteers benefit each time such a thing happens, but most people in both the attacking and the attacked country will have to pay for it. The attacked have to pay with their blood. But the attackers have also a price to pay.

Past wars and paranoia are the reasons why each US citizens has to pay about $2000 each year to subsidize the MIC and why more and more repressive actions at home limit the freedoms of US citizens. Meanwhile most of the federal discretional spending is sucked up by the MIC and national security. Money which is spend for weapons and surveillance is missing for bridges, roads, social security and education.

reply to post by mkgandhas

a moderator is talking this....

What does them being a mod have to do with anything? We live in a free, open and democratic society where anybody is free to discuss and have an opinion. Just because they're mod on a conspiracy site does not mean they have to see a conspiracy in everything!

IF americans think like this,I hope Russia nukes and wages biological and thermonuclear genocide and eradicates the americans from this planet. We don't need genocidal american warmongers.

"I hope" you say? now who is being a warmonger?

A mod not only supporting but openly encouraging "pre-emptive" genocide. Killing innocent children, women, men, old and young, puppies, kittens, etc. All for Israel's "paranoia". Dont forget the oil execs and multinationals drooling at the snout for more obscene profits. War is NOT the answer! Iran is in a far worse spot than Israel as it is surrounded by US/Israeli troops. The US is the only nation to have actually used nuclear weapons in anger against another nation and has secretly provided Israel with loads of them. Who will keep these two proven cold blooded imperialists in check?! Furthermore, US and Israeli politians openly call for an illegal, "tactical" nuclear obliteration of Iran yet the agressors are the supposed victims in this theatre of the absurd. Mod, what are you on for chrissakes?!

I have no real issue with their efforts to develope a power generation program. The clandestine efforts to bring a WMD program to fruition is another thing entirely...

I'm sure you have proof of Iran building Nuclear weapons, right? Otherwise, why aren't you believing them when they say they are enriching it for medical purposes? Because MSM says so? The IAEA has said there is no proof, the US has said they aren't building them (Secretary of Defense), and Iran says they aren't.

What would Iran's possession of nuclear weapons, or other sorts of WMD's have on the stability of the Middle East region specifically, and the world in general? Israel will have kittens. ...Iran's possession of nukes will all but guarantee a conflict with nuclear armed Israel. Israeli paranoia, and its inevitable expression in the form of an attack such as the one on Iraq's in the 80's, and more recently on Syria's, would seem to be something to avoid...yet Iran keeps courting it.

Maybe in order to avoid a conflict with Israel, Iran needs nukes. Would you risk it? India and Pakistan sure as hell haven't nuked eachother and they have been rivals since 1947.

For the sake of future stability in the region, should such a thing even be possible, which I doubt. Iran's weapons program must be terminated... Peacefully if possible, but with force if all other means of persuasion have failed.

I am going to assume that you have a similar thread on North Korea? I will look to see if you do, but, please link to it to save me time.

I do agree that nuclear weapons should all be scrapped, but, until a country decides to clean their own house before telling another that their house is dirty, well, how can you take it seriously? You can't have nuclear weapons and then demand another country not to have them.