Tor (anonymity network)

reply to post by Arbitrageur


To address your points (albeit from a while ago):

Originally posted by Arbitrageur The chrome browser may be fast as browsers go, but the tor speed problems have more to do with the fact that your data is bouncing through many different tor nodes before it gets to you, and not so much with the browser. Hopefully you know what you're doing with Chrome and maybe you do, but the Tor developers recommend Firefox.

Of course TOR itself causes the slowness, as it constantly relays your browsing, but Firefox is, on general, not exactly the best browser. Yes, I also have Opera and Internet Explorer, but Chrome is still my choice for speed. However, I usually use the actual TOR system for Deep Web browsing.

Why would you recommend this when the Tor developers have offered a solution which leaves no traces on your computer in the first place. You can get a USB stick, and load the Tor browser bundle (TBB) on it, and run tor from the USB stick. The way it's configured, once you end your session, there's nothing for Ccleaner to find. It leaves nothing on the USB stick or on your computer after your session is finished. That said, I'm not sure the latest versions are entirely stable.
And if you don't go the USB stick route, you're probably better off running it in a virtual machine.

Unfortunately, I, unlike many people, do not have a safe system of computers to work with. I carry my one Unix netbook around on my business trips, as I know that in some of the places I travel to (Egypt, Greece, Singapore) the computers are a wee bit . . . spotty, if you know what I mean. I use CCleaner and Glary Utilities on my computer so that the transactions that I do are concealed. (Bitcoins cannot run on a USB drive, in my experience.)

If you believe the guy who helped develop bitcoins, this is not such a good idea:
www.gizmodo.com.au...

Update: Jeff Garzik, a member of the Bitcoin core development team, says in an email that bitcoin is not as anonymous as the denizens of Silk Road would like to believe. He explains that because all Bitcoin transactions are recorded in a public log, though the identities of all the parties are anonymous, law enforcement could use sophisticated network analysis techniques to parse the transaction flow and track down individual Bitcoin users. “Attempting major illicit transactions with bitcoin, given existing statistical analysis techniques deployed in the field by law enforcement, is pretty damned dumb,” he says.

Well, unless you want to go about giving out your Credit Card number on the Deep Web (of all things). . . At least bitcoins are a lot more difficult to trace. Of course, nothing is impossible . . .

To address my idea that bridges help dislodge cookies, I apologize for that glaring inaccuracy. Of course I use Firefox with cookies unabled, and I forbid scripts globally. However, what I meant to say is that, once someone realizes that you are using TOR, they could potentially trace back your IP address, which would obviously endanger anonymity. This is why I use bridges.

As for this . . .

Just a random info-dump,
Seraph

What would be nice is less randomness, and more accuracy.

I sign off most if not all of my posts in this manner, so I apologize for my . . . well . . . non-perfection.

Hopefully more accurate and less of a random info-dump for your likings,
Seraph
Seraph

Originally posted by seraphnb
Well, unless you want to go about giving out your Credit Card number on the Deep Web (of all things). . . At least bitcoins are a lot more difficult to trace.

I don't have any transactions to hide. But if I did, I'd probably find a way to get a prepaid visa card that couldn't be traced to me, rather than use bitcoins. And of course some people use bitcoins and then have things shipped to their home address, which obviously eliminates any anonymity no matter what payment method is used.

You might be right that bitcoins won't work on the USB, I haven't tried that because I don't use bitcoins. But if you didn't need bitcoins, the USB stick might be a good option for you, it avoids the need for all that cleaning.

To address my idea that bridges help dislodge cookies, I apologize for that glaring inaccuracy. Of course I use Firefox with cookies unabled, and I forbid scripts globally. However, what I meant to say is that, once someone realizes that you are using TOR, they could potentially trace back your IP address, which would obviously endanger anonymity. This is why I use bridges.

Wait, I thought you're using Chrome? Now you said Firefox? Anyway, I think you still have some inaccuracy here and you don't fully understand exactly what bridges do.

www.torproject.org...

Bridge relays (or "bridges" for short) are Tor relays that aren't listed in the main Tor directory. Since there is no complete public list of them, even if your ISP is filtering connections to all the known Tor relays, they probably won't be able to block all the bridges. If you suspect your access to the Tor network is being blocked, you may want to use the bridge feature of Tor.

That's it, it's just an unlisted relay.

Snoopers can just as easily set up an unlisted relay as they can set up a listed relay, so it really depends where you get your unlisted relays from. If you have a special source of bridge relays then you may have an advantage the typical user doesn't have, but for most people, the more typical reasons for running a bridge typically are not to improve anonymity, but rather the benefit is to bypass firewalls that block access to known Tor relays, like the great firewall of China or corporate networks:

www.torproject.org...

Are you in China, or behind a restrictive corporate network firewall that blocks the public Tor relays? If so, you should learn about Tor bridges.

It might also make it harder for your ISP to determine that you're accessing Tor but if you can find the unlisted relays, I'm not completely convinced that the ISP can't. As the Tor Website suggests, the ISP probably does know of some unlisted relays, but they probably don't know about all of them so eventually you should be able to find one they don't know about.

But if your ISP isn't blocking you, then you really have no idea if your ISP knows about the unlisted relay you're using or not. My ISP doesn't block any Tor relays so I'd have no idea if they knew about an unlisted bridge relay I'm using or not, unless I knew the person who set it up and it was just set up, or something like that.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by flyingdonkey
ok, so if i download "browser bundle" and start using TOR, what is my default mode? Is it Standard?

Yes.

But you should probably go through all the settings to see what they say. They've made some bad goofs in the past on the default settings. For example, in a previous version, they had noscript default configured to "allow scripts globally". This defeats the whole purpose of noscript and it made the browser bundle vulnerable, (capable of not making you anonymous). After learning about that I now feel compelled to check every setting they have set by default. This can be a little tricky if you're new to Tor.

edit on 26-1-2012 by Arbitrageur because: clarification

thanks for the info. How do I know which version of TOR I am currently using?
I can only find links/information on "how to upload latest version" in the intenet.

Had a questions about the hidden wiki....
Yesturday I get on and can access all the pages. Then today I get on only to an anon message. Try to open onion site and it says it's not there.

Any ideas... Or is there something I'm not doing?

Originally posted by flyingdonkey
thanks for the info. How do I know which version of TOR I am currently using?
I can only find links/information on "how to upload latest version" in the intenet.

The simplest way is, download the latest version, make a note of the version number, then you know what version you're using. This is especially true if you're running the Tor Browser Bundle where it would be very difficult to know what version you're using if you don't take this approach. The bundle consists of different components such as a browser, Vidalia, etc, and each has its own separate version number separate from the browser bundle version number.

reply to post by damilo

Yes it's not always online, I'm not sure why, but part of the reason could be vandalism, though there could be other reasons too.

Originally posted by Dreamer99
reply to post by DanaKatherineScully

 

That would work but the better option IMO:

Privatix ->USB Stick

Portable encrypted OS designed with privacy in mind. You can use any computer and boot into a secure Debian OS, Tor comes already configured. Nothing saves to the computer, it's all on your USB stick and all encrypted.

Liberte USB is much better option IMHO. dee.su...

Don't listen to all the scare tactics, just don't install it on your production PC and tread lightly. I don't even bother using the OS other then when I first got it to experiment and see how it works. I thought it rather neat but there is no real need for it. If you aren't doing something wrong why bother with such a program, I can maybe understand if you need to send e-mails that aren't of importance and don't want your IP attached (Selling on craigs list for instance as some people reply to ads so you reply and grab your IP).

If the software becomes illegal don't use it. If you have it on a USB stick are in a foreign country that becomes hostile over night, use it if you can in order to communicate with family and friends.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


I use Chrome with or without TOR for my every-day browsing, but Firefox for the .onion stuff. As for bridges, I obviously do not understand their full purpose. I simply use them as an extra precaution.

Just my randomly jumbled apologies,
Seraph

I've been on the Deep Web before at least most of the onion domain sites. I was disappointed with the size of it. It appears the size of the Deep Web is about the same size as the whole Internet in the late 1990's. A lot of it is illegal content, mostly drugs but also guns and pornography. There are a lot of scammers. There is no "Mariana's Web." The images online that supposedly show the levels of the Deep Web are false. It's like a reverse pyramid. The content might be more relevant to some people but a lot of it is available online. For instance, the knowledge files that supposedly show what really happened on 9/11, or how to make explosive weapons, etc. can be found on Piratebay and Demonoid. Nothing special really.

Originally posted by questforevidence
I've been on the Deep Web before at least most of the onion domain sites. I was disappointed with the size of it. It appears the size of the Deep Web is about the same size as the whole Internet in the late 1990's. A lot of it is illegal content, mostly drugs but also guns and pornography. There are a lot of scammers. There is no "Mariana's Web." The images online that supposedly show the levels of the Deep Web are false. It's like a reverse pyramid. The content might be more relevant to some people but a lot of it is available online. For instance, the knowledge files that supposedly show what really happened on 9/11, or how to make explosive weapons, etc. can be found on Piratebay and Demonoid. Nothing special really.

Eh... you took a look at the world through a straw and you think you've seen it all? Let me put it this way in simple terms... Picture this as rivers, the smaller river comes from a bigger one that comes from a bigger one that terminates in the sea right? Same principal the "Mariana" and such are nicknames given to these different layers...

Most of the security internet wise is at the fore-front with the ISP's then you get in really deep stuff from there where you have to make your way to access the network between your ISP and their providers now remember internet providers will censor a certain part of the content of their users meaning if you can pass through them and move up the chain you'll have less restricted access to the net. Each layers you go up the chain you get a less restricted access but also since you've owned the previous "layer" you can "sniff" pretty much everything going to/from the "ISP" and their providers.

Let me put this in a diff context... Lets say you breach a "ISP A" who buy their access from "ISP B" once you break "ISP A" you'll be able to sniff anything going between "ISP A" and "ISP B" meaning nothing will be secret for any customer of "ISP A"

"You'd have technically made it 1 level deeper at this point" the "level" aren't really defined its just how deep you can penetrate into the heart of internet trying to make your way to its brain so you can control the whole thing...

Now if you make it up one more notch and you break "ISP B" this means you now own every bit of data sent from any customers that are using any of the service or any company they resell service to no matter what....

And by any means the "Onion" network isn't even a real network it just catchs the "onion" part and redirect you to the proper IP's of some Joe Schmoe hosting some stuff he doesn't want people to track back to him which usually turns out to be porn or illegal stuff like you mention but it has NOTHING to do with what you think it does those are two unrelated and different things...

AAAAAND:

Bla blaa bla blabla, blablabla blaaa....

Its AWSOME you guys know how it works,
why it works, what TO do and what NOT to
do, WHEN you do...

NOW, can anyone please TELL me HOW
i install and set it up..?!?!?
Hands down direct fact guideline...

PLEASE

Ive come so far as to install...
Now i need to set it up...
This is what happens when i try to start:

More info coming

I click Start Tor Browser, get this messege:
Vidalia was unable to authenticate Tor Software. (Control socket is not conected)
Please check your control port authentication settings.

Now WHAT?!?

Originally posted by Miccey
AAAAAND:

Bla blaa bla blabla, blablabla blaaa....

Its AWSOME you guys know how it works,
why it works, what TO do and what NOT to
do, WHEN you do...

NOW, can anyone please TELL me HOW
i install and set it up..?!?!?
Hands down direct fact guideline...

PLEASE

Ive come so far as to install...
Now i need to set it up...
This is what happens when i try to start:

More info coming

I click Start Tor Browser, get this messege:
Vidalia was unable to authenticate Tor Software. (Control socket is not conected)
Please check your control port authentication settings.

Now WHAT?!?

edit on 2012/4/24 by Miccey because: more info added

Google... not to be an ass**** but this is a bit like a firearm... if you can't get it to work you're better of not messing around with them. You're a long way from this type of stuff you'll just end up with a PC full of virus or an empty bank account...

some info or a go to would be helpful though.

Originally posted by _R4t_

Originally posted by Miccey
AAAAAND:

Bla blaa bla blabla, blablabla blaaa....

Its AWSOME you guys know how it works,
why it works, what TO do and what NOT to
do, WHEN you do...

NOW, can anyone please TELL me HOW
i install and set it up..?!?!?
Hands down direct fact guideline...

PLEASE

Ive come so far as to install...
Now i need to set it up...
This is what happens when i try to start:

More info coming

I click Start Tor Browser, get this messege:
Vidalia was unable to authenticate Tor Software. (Control socket is not conected)
Please check your control port authentication settings.

Now WHAT?!?

edit on 2012/4/24 by Miccey because: more info added

Google... not to be an ass**** but this is a bit like a firearm... if you can't get it to work you're better of not messing around with them. You're a long way from this type of stuff you'll just end up with a PC full of virus or an empty bank account...

edit on 24-4-2012 by _R4t_ because: (no reason given)

Hmm...Well google doesent say WHY i cant use it..
And the main website isnt to helpful either...Soooo

Okay, so this first admission could possibly negate the other things I'm about to say because I haven't been there for years and have tons of experience. I downloaded TOR last night after I came across this thread which I found beyond interesting. I knew the deep web was out there, but I thought it was accessible using clearnet methods. Duh!

I had thought many times...there HAS to be a black market somewhere. Well, I've found it!!!

I'm still evaluating if it's worth it to stay. People who are saying "avoid .onion sites"....uh, then what's the point? I get the anonymous thing. Funny when I first got online, I *thought* I was anonymous. I think we were way more anonymous in '97 than we are now.

Anyway, sorry for being all over the place. I'm excited!

Also those who are cautioning others...listen to them. I know caution can sometimes sound like downright paranoia, and it begins to sound silly and weak. The deepweb doesn't appear to be a place to be bada$$. With the anonymity, you never quite know how you might be dealing with and should things go South, it won't be traceable per se.

I guess what I'm trying to say is keep your ego in check. Also, you're going to see access to some rather unsavory things. You can only access these things if YOU choose. It takes a network of clicks to access. You can't end up there by accident.

It's worth a look, and if nothing else, go down and search around using one of the deepweb search engines. This one called TORCH claims 1.1 million pages indexed: xmh57jrzrnw6insl.onion...

This would be the place to look up the specific things you are looking for. Be careful! Have fun! Stay away from the shady shady.

I have it all installed but i still cant access..

So any tips or instructions.

Originally posted by Miccey
I have it all installed but i still cant access..

So any tips or instructions.

Just leave it alone. You're all just after illegal porn, admit it. You don't need to access the tor network. You aren't super-powerful, you aren't part of some hacker group, you don't even know how to configure the software properly. So what's left? You either want to buy drugs, hire hitmen, or view illegal porn.

Take your pic, which one are you?

You're a sad BUNCH of people for
a) teaching the unwashed masses how to access the deepnet
b) asking how to configure the tor software so you can access illegal material

MODS DELETE THIS ENTIRE THREAD. UGH

All I needed to see was that it was a naval research project.
Which tells me that they can trace it wherever they want with ease
because they built it, and they obviously gave it away since
people know about it, because now they have something better.

You're a fool to use it.

Originally posted by GodHatesUsAll

Originally posted by Miccey
I have it all installed but i still cant access..

So any tips or instructions.

Just leave it alone. You're all just after illegal porn, admit it. You don't need to access the tor network. You aren't super-powerful, you aren't part of some hacker group, you don't even know how to configure the software properly. So what's left? You either want to buy drugs, hire hitmen, or view illegal porn.

Take your pic, which one are you?

You're a sad BUNCH of people for
a) teaching the unwashed masses how to access the deepnet
b) asking how to configure the tor software so you can access illegal material

MODS DELETE THIS ENTIRE THREAD. UGH

A hacker group, super powerful ?

What are you on about, the point you are missing is, that everyone has to start somewhere, you are simply not born & know everything about things, is there something wrong in being interested in something or learning how to do things ?

Why would we have to only be interested in "the bad stuff" to use tor?

For the record, I haven't used it, but I plan to in the future. I just have more important things to get sorted before I get stuck into researching as much as I need to know about it, as I wouldn't use tor without knowing EXACTLY what I doing.

Also for the record, I have no intention of using it for porn, drugs or hitmen (though there are a few people that have made me consider that last one )

There are things I'd like to look into on the deepnet that if I tried looking at on the clearnet would probably lead to a bad result. But that doesn't mean I want to look at kiddie porn or hire someone to smuggle a tonne of cocain into the country. In actual fact, I have no intention of breaking the law in the slightest, but if someone where snooping on my activity, I would be in big trouble. Simples.

When all is said and done, this thread isn't the only place for people to hear about tor. People will use it for whatever reason they want, and those who don't know what they're doing will probably receive a nasty shock. But hey, life goes on....

Kyle

reply to post by kai22


Yeah, maybe you're right. But then maybe I'm right, too, when I say it's no place for the computer illiterate or even an initiate to be in. The people who run the domains on the onion are highly savvy individuals ranging from oldschool computer nerds (elite hackers today) to your government "ABC" organizations. If you are not invited to be there - stay away. They will find you; you're not anonymous to them.

To be honest, there is another reason to use tor, something I'm sure many other people than myself has pondered. What if, you could "disappear" without a trace and completely go off their radar, so to speak? No more google tracking you or any of the other privacy invaders. That sounds cool right? Sort of like sticking it to the Man and going rogue. Best of luck, if that's your goal because there are many requirements that, if not met, will reveal your identity to those that want to know.

Unless you're a freedom fighter, in the sense that you belong to a secretive group of people who meet in secrecy in the depths of the "deep web", or you're a whistleblower, or perhaps even a paranoid schizophrenic (sorry, had to), there's no real reason to want to surf the deepweb/net. All that's really left is drugs, sex-trade, hitmen for hire, and illegal porn.

So basically, the reason to use TOR comes down to necessity. And these people on here asking for tutorials to get started do not need this information.